Band Ethics Discussion Part 2: Play or pull out?

Post by **Jim Price** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Following up BadDazeRob's previous thread about "'Bands' that give bands a bad name," here’s another scenario I’d like to pose to the Rockpage community, based on an actual situation that took place this past weekend.

Your band is booked to play for free at an outdoor benefit concert. Your band has a keyboard player, with some expensive electronic gear. The day of the show, you drive 3 hours and show up at the venue, and the weather is overcast and spitting rain. During the set of the band just before you, a light misty drizzle with a slight breeze begins to fall. (The band before you has a keyboard player, who is set up and playing.) The stage is large and has a roof over it, and there is an ample dry area to set up the keyboard. Do you play the show regardless, and risk getting moisture in the keyboard, or do you turn 9tail and bail out of the show at the last minute?

A few questions that come to mind after this situation…First, if you have an expensive keyboard and electronics in your band, do you book outdoor gigs to begin with, knowing that rain is a risk? The band in question was traveling with a second band, which had no keyboard player, who also bailed out of the gig at the last minute. Was the first band justified in pulling out due to the keyboard issues? What was the second band’s excuse?

Feel free to offer your insights and thoughts below…

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I have some expensive guitar gear that moisture could terrorize and I'd say play it...Play the gig or don't book it in the first place.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

1) Equipment presumed to be that fragile doesn't have any business being on a road equipment list--indoor or outdoor. There is just as good (or better) chance it will get a spill in the closer confines of an indoor club.

Lame excuse to bail. That band should try running sound at this outdoor venue sometime with 5x the value of their keyboards for 24 hours in weather that delaminated a pair of army boots.

2) The 2nd "band" needs to get out of this business and leave it to professionals who still carry the mantra:

"THE SHOW MUST GO ON!"

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Never heard of the bands that pulled out, and probably wont ever again.

We have 3 shows today and ESJ will be one of them.

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Driving rain, Thunder and lightning is one thing, no gig's worth dying over but a little drizzle...

that's just candyass

no real muscian would pull out under light drizzle with a breeze conditions,

a couple of weeks ago, we played an out door party with very little protection and about 3/4 of the way through there was lightning all over the place (pretty scary) but instead of cutting out at the first sign of a storm, we played One more (A Tom Waits tune called "Make it Rain", no less) then packed up. and that's lightning...

a little drizzle....candy ass, even with a keyboard and the 2nd band has no excuse at all.

amateur bullshit!!!!

Mistress_DB · Post by **Mistress_DB** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

OH for the love of heaven!

I went to see Poison/Cinderella/Dokken and Slaughter on the Power to the People tour at Hershey Park in 2000. Great weather when I left Altoona. Low 80's, nice and sunny. I arrive in Hershey to overcast skies, drizzle and temps in the 60's. By the time Poison hit the stage it was pouring. Now I'd fathom to guess that all the band equipment was a hell of alot more expensive than anything a local club band would use. Not to mention takes alot more electricity to run. They covered what they could with plastic tarps and kept right on playing without complaint. I even saw CC DeVille take one hell of a nose dive from the amount of water that had gathered on the stage.

My point being.... if a group of national acts can say oh well it's raining the show must go on... what's wrong with a bunch of local yokels. To me it's a very lame excuse to back out of something at the very last minute.

paul · Post by **paul** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Regardless of it being a benefit and the band didn't get paid, people paid good money to get in to see these bands and that is just bullshit. If the keboard player was a puss the band should have played any way (what do they use him for anyway 3 or 4 songs), and if there was enough room under roof where he could have set up and been fine then there is no excuse at all. Those are the chances you take when you sign on for outdoor gigs and the fact that they were making no money should have no bearing on it at all.
The band needs to take a serious look at this guy then throw him the nuts and make the guitar player get a guitar synth and leave the ass at home in his bedroom where his precious keyboard will be fine.
I remember the first night I used my Roland Guitar synth ($1300) out and a guy spilled a beer on it, we finished the song and I wiped it off and continued to play and worried about it when I got home.
As far as the other band goes they just played follow the leader and there is totally no excuse for them. I think they both need to stay home in the garage until they grow up a little bit. I mean he whined about a little rain which he would not be in, so what happens when a bar owner thows them the nuts and cancels a show last minute or short changes them at the end of the night. What does he do cry like a baby, go into convulsions or slash his wrists? I am guessing it is a combination of all 3. But it is nothing to worry about as I don't think they will be around much for this kind of stuff to happen to again, since bands like that just dig their own grave.
Paul

CrossFireMistress · Post by **CrossFireMistress** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I'd say gather up some money get a tarp and place it on some legs and put it over the keyboard player, LOL maybe even build him or her a little tarp area with the see through plastic on the sides. Because you don't want to not book any out door stuff because alot of people love that and you want to get your self out there to be known and listened to.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

lonewolf wrote:1) Equipment presumed to be that fragile doesn't have any business being on a road equipment list--indoor or outdoor. There is just as good (or better) chance it will get a spill in the closer confines of an indoor club.

Lame excuse to bail. That band should try running sound at an this outdoor venue sometime with 5x the value of their keyboards for 24 hours in weather that delaminated a pair of army boots.

2) The 2nd "band" needs to get out of this business and leave it to professionals who still carry the mantra:

"THE SHOW MUST GO ON!"

Couldn't agree more.

Any gig-level equipment worth a damn is not going to be affected by a little moisture from percepitation. The most that would happen would have been a guitar going out of tune due to the humidity change. If the band would have been completely exposed to the rain, I would agree that they would have grounds to back out as providing ample shelter is the responsibility of the venue/promoter, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Anyone expecting this business to be a walk in the park needs to consider a career change.

Mackovyak · Post by **Mackovyak** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I agree with everyone else here. But for my $0.02.....I've been playing the past 5 years in beach towns from Ft. Lauderdale to Key West and now in Myrtle, so a majority of the shows are outdoors, near pools, near the ocean, on piers ect.

I personally agree with lonewolf that things probably have a better chance of being ruined by the drunk in the bar spilling beer. But let's face it, gear isn't cheap. I went out and bought an outdoor setup for my acoustic shows.....el cheapo powered mixer/speaker setup and a cheap acoustic/electric. So you have your choice:

1. Risk your good gear.
2. Buy cheap outdoor gear.
3. Don't book outdoor shows.

Simple as that.

As for the other band. That's just plain ridiculus. I'm sure word will get around to them. That's a disgrace.

generationgap · Post by **generationgap** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

We were the band that was playing yesterday, when the rain came.
Our keyboard player even got a little bit of rain on his keys but.
WE STILL PLAYED....

Don told us they were getting some rain on them but it was no problem...
He didn't <<<< FREAK>>>> (9Tail and bail),
and yes it was a covered stage but Don was to close to the edge when he set up. And guess what, it stopped raining by the time we got done.
Go figure...

There was more than enough room....

What about the soundman in the middle of the grass with only a canopy
with no side protection and a ton of money in equipment, he still did sound...

Some things to consider...

1st Great cause helping the kids in the Children's Hospital
2nd We wanted to play and have fun (we had a blast)
3rd Band Exposure (I guess they didn't need any)

My personal thought that, they bail not because of the rain.
But it was because it was not a big enough venue and not a packed house.

Not expensive equipment ? POOR EXCUSE MAN, VERY UNCOOL

To the bands that bailed Good luck with future bookings,
your going to need it!

Thank you Micky for all your hard work in setting up E.S.J.
Hope to see you next year...

GG

DennySD · Post by **DennySD** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I'd say gather up some money get a tarp and place it on some legs and put it over the keyboard player

Done it before... the real problem here is not owning good equipment, but rather not owning enough tarps.

Plus let's face it, digital keyboards are computers. They depriciate. By the time moisture starts taking its toll chances are your axe that cost $1500 won't be worth more than a few hundred anyway. (Which probably has something to do with why us keyboard players are so gear-obsessed in the first place).

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I remember last year helping set up rockpages "onetooloud's" gear for "Rock the House" It was raining pretty good and he's got alot more than 3 grand in his stuff. We set up in the rain the night before and he left it there overnight in the rain, I did however run too wally world at about 11pm and got him some tarps.

nakedtwister · Post by **nakedtwister** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I'm with Ed on this one. We played in the rain like the bands before us and there was no bitching at all. Kudos to Gin and Juice( loved their sound),awesome selection from Matt Burns ( sounded great ), sorry I didn't get to stick around for Half Tempted ( who by the way filled the slots for to bands that bailed for 4 hours). The bands that bailed should be ashamed of themselves. They told Mickey that they brought $100,000 worth of equipment with them. Bullshit!!!!!!!! They saw that the crowd was too small for their swollen heads and left. You know I have seen bands ten times better like the Hurricanes, Fat Vinny, Wiskerbisket,Homers Army etc play for less people and graciously delivered their wonderous talent no matter what the draw. Again thanks to my band mates, Mickey and all of his staff( who gave up their time for a great cause), and all the other bands for a great and memorable time. God Bless All of you!!!!!!!!!

nakedtwister · Post by **nakedtwister** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Sorry I forgot to mention the music soldier himself JIM PRICE!!!!!!
Thank you Jim for everything you do for music in the area.

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

All I can say is if you book it, play it. Work around the elements in the best way you can not to destroy your gear and get through the gig. To leave someone hang is only going to hurt the reputation of your band and the word does get around. If you truly can't do a gig for a damn good reason, try and find a replacement for you. The band's #1 job is to make that register ring and everyone, including the bar employees, is counting on you for their livelyhood.

The same principle applies here and the only difference is there are musicians who can fill in when necessary. If you cancel gigs too often, you lose your job and word gets around to other places. In the end, there won't be a single gig for you to play.

What's remarkable about most musicians is no matter what's going on in life, most of us show up to play. Whether we're sick or half crippled we still show up and I tip my hat to each and every one of you that have shared your horror story with me in how you got through a gig.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

If you use it, you abuse it. I take good care of my equipment and it still has to go into Ford Music for the occasional repairs. All of my basses have scratches on them. Instruments are going to get scratched if you gig with them. If you don't want your gear to take a few knocks, then you might as well be like Steely Dan and never do a live show.

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

paul wrote:Regardless of it being a benefit and the band didn't get paid, people paid good money to get in to see these bands and that is just bullshit. If the keboard player was a puss the band should have played any way (what do they use him for anyway 3 or 4 songs), and if there was enough room under roof where he could have set up and been fine then there is no excuse at all. Those are the chances you take when you sign on for outdoor gigs and the fact that they were making no money should have no bearing on it at all.
The band needs to take a serious look at this guy then throw him the nuts and make the guitar player get a guitar synth and leave the ass at home in his bedroom where his precious keyboard will be fine.
I remember the first night I used my Roland Guitar synth ($1300) out and a guy spilled a beer on it, we finished the song and I wiped it off and continued to play and worried about it when I got home.
As far as the other band goes they just played follow the leader and there is totally no excuse for them. I think they both need to stay home in the garage until they grow up a little bit. I mean he whined about a little rain which he would not be in, so what happens when a bar owner thows them the nuts and cancels a show last minute or short changes them at the end of the night. What does he do cry like a baby, go into convulsions or slash his wrists? I am guessing it is a combination of all 3. But it is nothing to worry about as I don't think they will be around much for this kind of stuff to happen to again, since bands like that just dig their own grave.
Paul

Hey, quit posting on this forum and paint my guitars DAMNIT!!!!

Don Hughes · Post by **Don Hughes** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Wow. This is getting a lot of replys at a short time.

Just for the record, I was the keyboard player, and my board is just fine.

Thanks to Jim Price and everyone else who came out to support a good cause, to Mickey for inviting Generation Gap to play not even hearing us, and to all the bands and my bandmates for playing some good music

Don Hughes

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

Don Hughes wrote:Wow. This is getting a lot of replys at a short time.

Just for the record, I was the keyboard player, and my board is just fine.

Thanks to Jim Price and everyone else who came out to support a good cause, to Mickey for inviting Generation Gap to play not even hearing us, and to all the bands and my bandmates for playing some good music

Don Hughes

So....Ya didn't play, eh?

Don Hughes · Post by **Don Hughes** » Sunday Aug 28, 2005

I was the guy with Generation Gap that DID play. Sorry I couldn't save the water on my keyboard to prove it.

paul · Post by **paul** » Monday Aug 29, 2005

Facing West wrote

Hey, quit posting on this forum and paint my guitars DAMNIT!!!!

Jr. I sold those pointy ass BC Rich's on ebay and never made enough out of them to pay the auction fees. So just sit back infront of your computer and watch it rain and finish the work on my website, then one of your guitars might magically reappear with a new paintjob. (Give me a call John)
Everyone is bashing these band and the people that were there know who they are so why doesn't someone help them out getting some more work by just telling everyone here who it was. I am just curious what bar band shows up with $100,000

worth of equipment to and out side gig.
So someone please just get it out there so everyone knows.
Paul

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Aug 29, 2005

No excuses ... no excuses ... no excuses ... it’s all been said in this thread already. Don’t wanna expose your gear to moisture, don’t book an outdoor gig in the first place. I know for a fact that my guitarist’s gear is more expensive than some dude's keyboard — guaranteed — and we’ve played more than our share of outdoor gigs in damp conditions.

DennySD wrote:Plus let's face it, digital keyboards are computers. They depriciate. By the time moisture starts taking its toll chances are your axe that cost $1500 won't be worth more than a few hundred anyway.

Kenny's effects board is also a computer. So is every component in his head. Another bullshit excuse.

Aside from these facts, as it has been stated, there is a HUGE roof on the stage at Cresson Sportmen’s Club.

Bottom line, someone decided there were not enough people in the crowd to play a benefit for sick kids. YOU GUYS SUCK!!! All of you. The other guys in the first band should’ve played the gig without keys.

To the other band that canceled, yeah, you suck, too ... You want exposure? you have to play the shows, no matter the weather, the crowd, whatever. We've dragged gear through three feet of snow, slopped through ankle-deep puddles, baked in 100 degree summer heat, gone full bore in front of FIVE people, but when it's time to play, it's time to play ...

Things like this are what make it tough on the rest of us, whether you’re gigging four-five days a week or just “weekend warrioring.” The integrity of us all suffers at the hands of a few douche bags.

Don’t like what I’ve typed, tough shit. Why don’t you tell me about it.

r:>)

nakedtwister · Post by **nakedtwister** » Monday Aug 29, 2005

paul wrote:Facing West wrote
Hey, quit posting on this forum and paint my guitars DAMNIT!!!!
Jr. I sold those pointy ass BC Rich's on ebay and never made enough out of them to pay the auction fees. So just sit back infront of your computer and watch it rain and finish the work on my website, then one of your guitars might magically reappear with a new paintjob. (Give me a call John)
Everyone is bashing these band and the people that were there know who they are so why doesn't someone help them out getting some more work by just telling everyone here who it was. I am just curious what bar band shows up with $100,000 worth of equipment to and out side gig.
So someone please just get it out there so everyone knows.
Paul

I dont think any of us wish to name names pertaining to the bands that ditched at the ESJ benefit but if you go to the Benefits Forum and take notice that Gin and Juice, Matt Burns ,Generation Gap, and Half Tempted did brave the weather, the rest of the missing puzzle will appear.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Monday Aug 29, 2005

expect the bad eliments at any outside gig. this past thunder in the valley we were playing on friday night at a club on the deck and I was using my new bass it was 10 days old "USA Fender Jazz bass 5 string" not only did the dew and all the humidity from that weekend get on it but a girl dancing very close spilled a large alabama slammer down the front of it. so what it was bound to happen I used this axe the very next night and greenhouse park during thunder and I remember nakedtwister met me at my camp that day to follow me over and I pulled the bass out of my truck to show him the stains and we laughed and come monday I cleaned it and put new strings on it. this past weekend we played at Y woodstock and we all know what the weather was like saturday and I used my top end equipment and our keyboard player set up as well and he uses a Korg triton series "not a cheap set of keys"but the bottom line is regaurding the elements we went on and thats what it takes. it really goes to show that alot of small town bands right here in our rock page comunity are willing to work hard and be comited. for all the bands that played this weekend at the end of summer jam benifit and the Y Woodstock benifit my hat is off to all and for all of you that is willing to go the extra mile

ROCKPAGE

Band Ethics Discussion Part 2: Play or pull out?

Band Ethics Discussion Part 2: Play or pull out?

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