Die for your Country Metal frEEk !

[Imgrimm01]

Seems even metal heads can fight the "war on terror !! " Commerce at the Ozzfest in Hartford is plentiful and brisk, and tends toward the countercultural. Items for sale include marijuana-flavored candy, clothing with spikes, and Cat-in-the-Hat-style hats with pictures of pot leaves.

The river of people that flows from booth to booth on a recent Sunday boasts a lot of fishnet and hairstyles that fully exploit the color spectrum. Fresh from a body-painting booth, a few women are topless, except for elaborately designed layers of air-brushed paint.

Peering over all this, like a very unlikely Lord of Misrule, is a 20-foot-tall inflatable drill sergeant. It's the signpost of the U.S. Marines tent, which has set up shop amid the T-shirt, tattoo and body-piercing booths. Some Marines wear camouflage, but instead of blending in, the uniforms have the opposite effect. A few hundred yards away, the U.S. Army has its own booth.

Certainly, the Ozzfest environs seem at odds with selling young people on the militaristic rigors of life in the service. That the touring heavy-metal music festival, now in its 10th year, was organized by Ozzy Osbourne - self-proclaimed "prince of darkness" and television's famously confused father - only adds to the incongruity. The all-day event features 20 bands.

Compounding the unlikeliness: According to Marine Staff Sgt. Larry Thomas, six or more tattoos disqualify applicants. Here, that would eliminate many.

But in military recruiting, you go where the young folks are. That usually means going to schools, but the summer gives recruiters room to try other tactics.

And the current numbers don't afford recruiters much down time. The U.S. Army, the biggest of all the military branches, has a goal of 80,000 new enlistees by the end of September. By the end of June, the Army was more than 6,000 short of the 54,935 enlistees it needed to stay on pace, and more than 2,000 short of its goal of 15,554 Army Reservists.

So, if it takes setting up a booth at the Ozzfest and shouting to prospects over the chugga-chugga sounds of the nearby bands, then so be it. Not that the military guys seem to mind. The conversations are generally friendly, and the soldiers have a good time. A lot of the concertgoers tell the recruiters about friends or relatives in the military.

It's the first year the Army has officially come to the festival, but Sgt. Robert Nerkowski Jr. is a five-time Ozzfest veteran. Events like this, he says, show that joining the military doesn't mean the end of fun. "We're a bunch of rockers, too. People think we're a bunch of robots."

Aesthetic differences aside, the metal-military gap really isn't so pronounced. Precision and aggression - traits that serve a soldier well - are two staples of the music. And unlike its equally aggressive (but less musically disciplined) cousins, punk and hardcore, metal is generally apolitical; its legions are an ideological blank canvas.

"The kids who go to these shows make great soldiers," says Nerkowski, who works in the Hartford recruiting office. Reel in that energy, he says, and "undisciplined kids can make great leaders."

This is the sixth year the Marines have been to the Ozzfest, and as always, they bring the pull-up challenge. Guys get a U.S. Marines T-shirt for 20 pull-ups and a hat for 15. Women earn a shirt for holding their chin above the bar for 70 seconds, and a hat for 50 seconds. Posters and keychains are given to all who try. Competitors sign a liability form and check off whether they want informational material sent to them. The challenge is a good draw, and for much of the day, rockers crowd around and cheer on their friends.

As he does at every Ozzfest, Raymond Magden stops by the booth to talk. The 20-year-old Waterbury resident, who came mainly to see Rob Zombie and Mudvayne, is thinking about joining within the next year. He doesn't agree with the president's reasons for invading Iraq but ultimately believes the war is for a good cause.

"I'm not scared about going over," Magden says, before giving it some thought. "I am a little bit scared, but I also feel it is a duty because they do so much to protect us."

The Army has no pull-up challenge, but it does have prime real estate. Its booth is right next to where the radio station WCCC is broadcasting and drawing a decent crowd.

Besides raffling off an Xbox and a Playstation 2 signed by the Ozzfest bands, there's plenty of Army loot, and no physical exertion is required. Free for the taking are water bottles, bags, dog tags and the official video game of the U.S. Army, "America's Army."

[bassist_25]

Military recruiters are some of the most ruthless and amoral people I've ever come across (sorry to anyone who's been one, but that's been my experience with them). Many of them will say/do anything to get you to sign on the dotted line. They'll tell you things like how great the pay is, how your ASVAB score will guarantee the position you want, how their branch is better than any of the other branches, ect. It's all a crock of shit most of the time. I remember that they started hounding me my senior year, and I told them to leave me the hell alone. I also remember one time I answered an ad in the paper for an IT position. When I got to the end of the phone conversation, the dude told me it was for the air force. I should have known; he was asking me questions about my height, weight, marital status. I thought that those were pretty asinine questions. Shouldn't he be more interested to see if I have MCSE's and experience with Novell? That taught me to never answer ambiguious help wanted ads.

[RobTheDrummer]

I remember that they started hounding me my senior year, and I told them to leave me the hell alone.

That's impossible, you don't meet the physical requirements! What are you like a buck 5?

[Ron]

The minimum weight for someone 6' 2" is 148 lbs. for the Air Force. Most in that bracket fail the "stiff breeze" test though.

[bassist_25]

Sweet, that means that they won't take me if WWIII starts and they begin drafting people. *LOL*

[songsmith]

The Marines told a co-worker of mine that her son wouldn't have to go to combat if he didn't want to, especially in Iraq... she held onto that as he signed up... he's over there now.
The Air Force told me I wouldn't have to cut my hair, they didn't do that anymore, just keep it above the collar. SUCKA!!! They said according to my ASVAB scores, I could literally pick any job I wanted.... as long as it was putting bombs on airplanes. Or EOD (explosive ordinance disposal, bomb squad, kinda dangerous sorta). I'd have needed a lot of "Mother Nature" for that job.
Think of the BS they have to sling NOW. "Killer waves on the Iraqi beaches, dude! Chicks in Burka-kini's!"---------->JMS

[f.sciarrillo]

Sometimes recruiters will tell you anything you want to hear. Well, every time. They will also do anything to get you in the military, even lie if they have to .. Not just to you, also to the government, I seen it happen. lol ..

[RAM Z]

Here's one for ya, I remember my 5th grade teacher show'n us mail from the Army to her dog! It was some kind of registered dog and she gave it a name like Butch or something and also it had her last name so they thought she had a son! They sent crap all that time for a dog, go figure! I think this went on for a few years untill she finally told them that is was her dog and not her son they were try'n to enlist! I bet someone felt like a jackass when they found out.

[Bert|Evil]

Contrary to popular belief, you can opt out of the Air Force if you can prove to be a “non-conformist”. This takes about 5 rounds of psychotherapy and counseling to deem you as appropriate.

I remember a MC recruiter telling me “if you don’t cut all of that hair off before you get sworn in, they’ll shave your head and leave one big lock to drag you by”. I looked into the Naval Officer program a few years ago and they told me that the basic training is much easier than that of what the enlisted folks see and that I could treat the Naval Postgraduate School as a tour of duty. That was a lie!!! As it turns out, officers’ basic training is led by the MC. The postgraduate school would be an additional 2 years to my 6-year investment, and very few people get in.

Still, if you can hack it, the military will treat you good. Some people retire after 20 years, go to school and take it easy for 4-6, and then take the easy street to a civilian position. Others bust ass to get their degree for a 4 or 8-year term, and then pursue a civilian position.

And if you don’t want to be on the front lines… don’t enlist in an agency that will put you there.

[Bert|Evil]

… and as far as tattoo ‘thang goes, you shouldn’t believe it. I’ve seen this one debunked by the Navy and Air Force. There’s a certain former bass player out there, that I leave nameless do to the fact that a lot of people know him, who enlisted in the late 90’s. He has tattoos on his temple, neck, and complete arm. I’m sure that they inventoried them when he enlisted, and I’m also sure that it was well over “5 or 6 tattoos”.

I should probably mention that I work on a military base, and I see A LOT of tattoos in a day. When we’re fighting such a cowardly foe, I think that it would be silly to have such a rule.

[bassist_25]

Contrary to popular belief, you can opt out of the Air Force if you can prove to be a “non-conformist”. This takes about 5 rounds of psychotherapy and counseling to deem you as appropriate.

Yeah, my friend went through about three or four psychiatric evaluations in the Navy. Though to be fair, he is neurotic and probaly most likely has at least four different personality disorders. He got sick of the service life, so he went out and did a line of blow. He told his commanding officer that he consumed cocaine, and got thrown in the pen for about two weeks. He then got discharged. Interestingly enough, he didn't get a dishonorable discharge, nor did he get an honorable one; he was just simply discharged with a bunch of acronyms after his status. I think that it may have something to do with his evaluations.

He was also screwed by the military. He originally signed on to be a nuclear technician and was even going to get a pretty nice degree out of the whole thing. He got into some legal trouble at the end of high school and was told that it wouldn't affect anything concerning his entrace into the Navy. When he got to basic training, he was told that he couldn't become a nuclear tech and was instead going to be commissioned as a sea man.

[bassist_25]

… and as far as tattoo ‘thang goes, you shouldn’t believe it. I’ve seen this one debunked by the Navy and Air Force. There’s a certain former bass player out there, that I leave nameless do to the fact that a lot of people know him, who enlisted in the late 90’s. He has tattoos on his temple, neck, and complete arm. I’m sure that they inventoried them when he enlisted, and I’m also sure that it was well over “5 or 6 tattoos”.

I'm sure the drill instructors love to bring it up though.

I don't think that I would accept a desocialization process very well. *LOL*

[Ron]

Here's one for ya, I remember my 5th grade teacher show'n us mail from the Army to her dog! It was some kind of registered dog and she gave it a name like Butch or something and also it had her last name so they thought she had a son! They sent crap all that time for a dog, go figure! I think this went on for a few years untill she finally told them that is was her dog and not her son they were try'n to enlist! I bet someone felt like a jackass when they found out.

I know a family that had the same thing start happening to their dog. Funny, but his name WAS Butch. They started getting all kinds of stuff in the mail for him. Well, to make a long story short, ol' Butch became a taxable dependant for several years until he died, and if I remember correctly, he also had a social security number.

[Bert|Evil]

He was also screwed by the military. He originally signed on to be a nuclear technician and was even going to get a pretty nice degree out of the whole thing. He got into some legal trouble at the end of high school and was told that it wouldn't affect anything concerning his entrace into the Navy. When he got to basic training, he was told that he couldn't become a nuclear tech and was instead going to be commissioned as a sea man.

Probably the biggest problem that the braches have had is the inexperience of those who are selected to be recruiters. If they have an answer for a potential recruit when he or she says that they were in some trouble, it is usually something along the lines of “did you kill anyone… you’ll be OK”.

Most of the people that have had an “incident” are likely to be over concerned about it on a security clearance. Honesty, and reading the questions closely is paramount. You’re likely to show up for your clearance meeting and hear “is that it?” to a DUI, underage drinking, disorderly conduct, etc. Let’s face it, law enforcement is a business and we’re the customers if we simply drive on the streets, breathe the air, and spend our money.

Here’s an alarming trend!! Over half of last year’s clearance rejections were due to…. financial obligations!! Bankruptcy, bad credit, very late payments, etc.

[RAM Z]

Ron, man it sure is a small world, hey? It would have been funny if someone stole the dog's identity and then got caught for it!

[RobTheDrummer]

What about the good things associated with the armed forces? It's not all negative. Lots of people learn valuable life lessons and skills from the military. Sometimes it gives certain people direction and purpose in thier lives, where they would otherwise get into drugs or whatnot and be a waste. I know people that have served this country and I respect them for that. If it wasn't for the military, we would be speaking a different language and we wouldn't have the freedom that we do today, or even the society that we have today. The military does not force people to sign up, if you don't want to, just say no and hang up the phone. Or just tell them you aren't interested, I have asthma, as soon as I tell them that, they are like ok...thank you. I think everyone on here probably knows a good person that served their country and respect them for that. They are sacrificing their time, or even life, so we can live freely.

[songsmith]

Hey, I have nothing against those who serve... but don't bullsh*t me to get me in. That's not patriotic. It's wrong.----->JMS

[RobTheDrummer]

Hey, I have nothing against those who serve... but don't bullsh*t me to get me in. That's not patriotic. It's wrong.----->JMS

I agree with that statement, but I don't think that is the case with most military recruitment personnel.

[bassist_25]

Let’s face it, law enforcement is a business and we’re the customers if we simply drive on the streets, breathe the air, and spend our money.

I never looked at it that way, but you have a good point. I wonder what life would be like with a privatized law enforcement sector.

What about the good things associated with the armed forces? It's not all negative. Lots of people learn valuable life lessons and skills from the military. Sometimes it gives certain people direction and purpose in thier lives, where they would otherwise get into drugs or whatnot and be a waste. I know people that have served this country and I respect them for that. If it wasn't for the military, we would be speaking a different language and we wouldn't have the freedom that we do today, or even the society that we have today. The military does not force people to sign up, if you don't want to, just say no and hang up the phone. Or just tell them you aren't interested, I have asthma, as soon as I tell them that, they are like ok...thank you. I think everyone on here probably knows a good person that served their country and respect them for that. They are sacrificing their time, or even life, so we can live freely

I don't disagree. The military performs a tough and necessary job. It's definatley not my type of thing, but it's good that some people want to do it. But as Johnny says - it could also be a lot of bullshit.

I still think that an undergraduate degree in psychology should be a requirement for drill instructors because they are directly involved in the desocialization and resocialization of recruits. But I doubt that anyone wants some bass player from Central PA to come in and tell them how to run things. *LOL*

[Imgrimm01]

I'm not knockin the military, I respect what they do ( follow orders) and I think it's a shame we spread them so thin and send them to die POINTLESSLY, my issue is the military is made up of primarily low income young people who see it as a way to pay for school so that they can get out of the shitty situation that they are in, recruiters target these areas more than others ( projects areas with high unemployment etc...) you don't see alot of recruiters walking around high end housing in say sylvan hills BUT you certainly used to see them at the station mall alot ! But hey I will stop picking on the young republicans they have done their part as well ( They all bought a Toby Keith CD and played LOUDLY the part about puttin a boot in Osama's ass ) so I suppose all is even. sorry I was misled !

[bassist_25]

my issue is the military is made up of primarily low income young people who see it as a way to pay for school so that they can get out of the shitty situation that they are in, recruiters target these areas more than others ( projects areas with high unemployment etc...)

But I see that as a good thing. Granted it sucks that they may have to go die on some forsaken rock, but giving them the chance to get an education and gain upward mobility is good. Though from what I understand, the GI Bill isn't paid entirely by the government. Part of it is money withheld from the recruits pay checks and then the government matches it up to a certain amount. People who have served - Am I correct about this?

I see your point though; it's a part of stratification that sucks ass. But at least there is a chance of upward mobility that comes out of it. When I'm being objective about social issues, I'm a functionalist. Whenever I'm adding my own interpretation, I'm almost always a conflict theorist.

[ToonaRockGuy]

I'm kind of neutral about the whole thing. I enlisted in the Navy when I was 17, went to boot camp at 18, my "A" school at 18, advanced training at 19, and then spent the next 5 years travelling the world, including 13 months consecutive in the first Gulf War. My recruiter didn't really pressure me, I asked for a difficult job and got it. The only pressure I got was to re-enlist at the end of my 6-year term, and I was so burned out from the Gulf War that I turned down the 20 grand offer and sat on my front porch with a bottle of Jack and watched the world go by for a week to "de-compress".

Looking back, I wouldn't trade what I did for anything. At 23, I had been around the world 3 times, vacationed in places like Aruba, St. Thomas, Italy, England, Hawaii, France, and Mexico, and paid nothing to go there. I defended my country, and got thanked for it, unlike VietNam Veterans and Korean War Veterans, who are STILL owed BIG TIME.

I don't agree with the current "War On Terror", but I will never ever blame the troops that are serving. They are just doing their jobs. It's the government's fault. To any and all veterans here on RP, Bravo Zulu. Well done.

BTW, anyone catch Sen. Rick Santorum on Jon Stewart's show recently? What a smug asshole.

[Ron]

... BTW, anyone catch Sen. Rick Santorum on Jon Stewart's show recently? What a smug asshole.

Santorum, AKA "frothy mixture", wants to make sex outside of marriage illegal everywhere in the United States, and ensure that the crime is punished to the full extent of the law. He has made several speeches where he equates adultery and homosexuality with incest.

I'd bet a million dollars that Santorum turns out all of the lights at night so his wife won't see him naked.

[Bert|Evil]

Let’s face it, law enforcement is a business and we’re the customers if we simply drive on the streets, breathe the air, and spend our money.

I never looked at it that way, but you have a good point. I wonder what life would be like with a privatized law enforcement sector.

I say that we breathe life back into Hammarabi Law, simply because it is the only logical law system in recorded history. Once implemented, the lawyers will scurry off to Canada and mess up their country. BERT FOR PRESIDENT!!!
I’m sure that most people in law would refuse to see it as the “profiting business” that I portrayed it as in the last post. Keep in mind that these are people with severe inferiority complexes, or destined to die of alcoholism after a long career of practicing law and beating their wives. BERT FOR PRESIDENT!!!

[Bert|Evil]

I still think that an undergraduate degree in psychology should be a requirement for drill instructors because they are directly involved in the desocialization and resocialization of recruits.

(gasp) (shudder)
A degree in Psychology would only mess them up more! No offense, but have you ever noticed that the people who seek Psychology degrees are usually doing so in an effort to “right the wrongs” in their life? If you don’t believe me, jump into the Way Back Machine and ask Erik Erickson minutes before he committed such an unprecedented and unusual suicide. Give the drill sergeants classes in Metaphysics, Quality Management, and Symbolic Logic, and that should supplement the “leaner, meaner military” vision.