What rights do we have?

[bassist4life2004]

Actually, its both, plus douche bag neighbors.

[bassist_25]

Boo-fucking-hoo for these people. Are people such pansies that they can't handle a little noise DURING THE DAY? I have a strippings that's practically in my back yard. There's another strippings about 1/4 mile up the road which has heavy equipment running around the clock. Everyone around here owns dirt bikes/ATV's. I sleep alright at night and can concentrate fine during the day. Of course, I don't get hung up on primitive 2nd circuit bullshit like a lot of people*.

The police probaly hate it the most. They're getting pulled away from legitimate work to answer asinine compliants from idiots.

*In reference to Dr. Timothy Leary's 8 Circuit Model of Consciousness.

[bassist_25]

I'm sorry, I'm really amus...er, confused.

Is it:

The Altoona Police department will only enforce the local noise ordinance while there is a sitting republican president?

or

Its George Bush's fault that the Altoona Police department enforces the local noise ordinance.

??

While the thread went off on a red herring about Bush, I think the original point is while the GOP is often hailed as the party for smaller government, their policies and actions infer the contrary. It's been in my experience that the Republicians generally promote a laissez-faire economy, but are quick to pass legislation on social issues. In other words, they're only for small government when it serves their ends.

If people truly want to augment individual freedom, they should vote libertarian, or at least for the Reform Party. Then again, many libertarians are stuck in an unrealistic Nozickian fantasy-world as much as many Democrats and leftists are stuck in an unrealistic Marxist fantasy-world.

But, I've said all these things millions of times before on Rockpage.

[jim bagrosky]

Ummmm....everyone.......WAKE UP! I didnt post this to start another political thread. I could care less who's democrat/repulican or what's right or wrong with Bush. I WANT TO PLAY MUSIC AT MY HOME ON SATURDAY AFTERNOONS. Just wanted to see if there's anything I can do on a LOCAL LEVEL to stand up for myself here. I'll worry about the rest of the world later. Dont mean to be rude to anyone but holy shit.

[rreihart]

perhaps it's a daysleeper that complained? Not that I am taking that persons side, because I agree you should be able to make noise on Saturday afternoon.

It's just like, when I hear about someone getting pulled over for a loud stereo, but when 2 or 3 (or sometimes even 1) Harley's or other large CC LOUD bikes ride by at full throttle it's at least 5 times louder than anyone's stereo could be.

Damned if you do, damned if you do.

[FatVin]

The answer to both questions is, of course, Yes

Seriuosly, it is the red state/blues state attitude brought on by the Republican habit of distracting the public with issues that don't really matter like a constitiuional ban on Gay Marriage, and whether or not there should be a 10 commandments disply outside a courtroom and flag burning to keep them from noticing bad ideas like the privitization of Social security and and poorly planned wars, while the economy goes into the toilet, and the only thing higher than gas prices is the rate of unemployment.

We'ren't we all better off while Bill Clinton was getting blow-jobs?

and by the way I notice your little icon there, didn't you guys lose that war?

[RobTheDrummer]

Jim, my friend, I have the solution! Take something loud like a lawnmower or leafblower or something of that nature, set it outside and leave it running when you play...that'll cover up the sound! If they call the cops because of that, then you just find out who it was and torch their house...I mean, yea, do that!

[YankeeRose]

"Mr. Bagrosky", when you start a thread, you run the risk of it going off in a totally different direction...just look at the "Stay Away From My Bone" one! It stinks, I didn't get to see the funny dog, either...the link "contains a kind of information MSN TV cannot use". <Insert a long
"Yosemite Sam" cuss fest here!>



Aw, come on bassist_25, if you really read the ENTIRE thread, you
know there was more than one mention of "Democrat", Vinnie
said what everyone would "do" and
if I shocked anyone's "delicate sensibilites", please forgive my rant...the one below, too. I'll delete one or both if some fellow Democrats or whom ever, don't think they both have some merit. Our Rights are being undermined on a daily basis...all you need is someone who knows or "likes" you, "in the system" and the object of your ire that you've complained against, if they haven't any money, are DONE!



I just can't understand, WHY do some seem to LIKE the Rebel Flag? Are they a Rebel's descendants, a "Rebel wannabe" or do they think or even hope "the South will rise again", with all it's insipid hatred? (Which, "news flash" to some, that hatred is still alive, well and all across this country, just waiting for more and more turned eyes and complacency...does anyone remember Oklahoma City?) I just don't like seeing the "stars and bars". SURPRISE! I thought it was "cool" and quite "anti-establishment", once upon a time, but many years ago, when I sat and thought about all it truly represented, I came to the conclusion it should be banned.
At the very core, it goes against all people who aren't "white" and everything this country is supposed to stand for. Do you want to talk about rights and laws being TRULY violated? It "glorifies" a period in our Nation's history that divided, not unified our Nation. If anyone is honestly "happy" about that...I just don't know...and NO! Any TRUE Lynyrd Skynyrd fans understand how they really feel...I recall something said at the concert I was at about a friend of theirs in the band...and "The Ballad of Curtis Lowe"? Ring a bell? "Ding-a-ling"!


(I looked through "All Time Greatest Hits" and of the album covers shown...not ONE Rebel Flag on any fronts, imagine that? "The Ballad of Curtis Lowe" is one of my oldest son's favorite Skynyrd songs...he'll be 21 this year and the day I brought him into this world? 09-19 - same day as Ronnie's daughter Melody, I saw in "Street Survivors"' CD Liner! So COOL, I love parallels like that! My mom and Led Zeppelin... well, 07-07, the day of her birth, any way, LOL...my son and Melody Van Zandt, hence Lynyrd Skynyrd, "far out"! There is another musical date parallel with another blood relative of mine, but it was sad and one of those, "you never forget where you were when you heard the news". 12-08-1980, my dad's biological father [Too long of a saga.] died the same day John Lennon was killed. I cried and cried over John Lennon's death when I heard the news late that night and I felt numb for days. My mom said Lennon's death affected me more. Yeah, I guess it did.)



I could almost swear I read and heard that Ronnie was buried in HIS Neil Young t-shirt...and Donnie was most likely the one that said it, on Q-94, last year during an interview...anyone else hear it and remember all that I do? Whether true or not...and I'm certain an "expert" will disprove, or even verify...miracles never cease! If anyone uses their work as an example of, or vehicle for hate, they are surely idiotic!



"This is the end of your "Spiritual Enlightenment", "Social Awareness Moment" for the day". You are now returned to your regularly un-sheduled Posting, arguing, bashing and mindless entertainment
(Which I usually can't share in, only because my MSN TV isn't "compatible"!!!), you know...
"business as usual".






PEACE,
YankeeRose

[lonewolf]

The answer to both questions is, of course, Yes

I have to assume you were joking. You were joking, right? I know I was joking.

Seriuosly, it is the red state/blues state attitude brought on by the Republican habit of distracting the public with issues that don't really matter like a constitiuional ban on Gay Marriage, and whether or not there should be a 10 commandments disply outside a courtroom and flag burning to keep them from noticing bad ideas like the privitization of Social security and and poorly planned wars, while the economy goes into the toilet, and the only thing higher than gas prices is the rate of unemployment.

I have reason to be at odds with this administration, but not for the above canned DNC mantra. Poorly planned wars? The war in Iraq was the most successfully executed war in history. It is the peace that was poorly planned and they still don't get it. Distracting the public? Are you saying that the public is too stupid to notice what goes on in Washington? The public is not stupid, it is only powerless to do anything about it, no matter who's in office.

Bad idea? How's this for a bad idea. Social Security in the 1st place. It was a poorly conceived plan and now we have to deal with it. I don't trust the government to fix it because they are no longer capable of fiscal responsibility.

Unemployment is at 5%. Any legitimate basic economics text will tell you that full employment is considered to be 5%.

BTW, PA is a blue state

We'ren't we all better off while Bill Clinton was getting blow-jobs?

No. After I was laid off in the early 90s as an electronics and computer design engineer I could not find employment in that field. That lasted so long that I changed careers, starting part-time at the bottom, and went back to school to get another degree. I didn't whine and blame the government--I was never too fond of pissing into the wind.

I laugh when I get my social security statement and look back at all those years in the 90s when my taxable income was in the low teens.

Meanwhile, thru hard work and investing, I have never done better than now. I suppose I can thank Bill C. for his laisse-faire attitude toward the stock market in the late 90s that allowed all the .com companies to bilk the public of trillions of dollars before the bubble burst in Bush's lap. I rode the wave up and then sold all my stock in December of 1999.

Thanks Bill

and by the way I notice your little icon there, didn't you guys lose that war?

The war for states rights and property rights is never over. Isn't that what this thread is all about?

[lonewolf]

"Mr. B..........on and on and on

With "states rights" on it, the stars and bars represents rebellion against an ever more opressive federal government. "Property rights" should appear across the top, except that the avatar makes it too small to read, so I took it off.

If you can show me a better symbol of rebellion, please do.

[YankeeRose]

With "states rights" on it, the
stars and bars represents
rebellion against an ever more
opressive federal government.
"Property rights" should appear
across the top, except that the
avatar makes it too small to read,
so I took it off.

If you can show me a better symbol
of rebellion, please do.

Let's see, gee, I don't know, but being that the stars and bars are Historically symbols of hatred and oppression, unless you're "okay with that"...why don't you make your own "symbol of rebellion", incorporating whatever it is you're passionate about in life and the reasons for your "battle".


Hmmmm..."ongoing war"..."states' rights, property rights"...
"oppressive federal government"...
lonewolf, you wouldn't happen to be
stockpiling large quantities of fertilizer on your property, would you??? I'll make sure I stay away from all federal buildings on April 19 next year... Sorry, I know it's not that funny...it's quite disgusting to even consider. Guess why I remember Oklahoma City so easily? (...and therefore the "Branch Davidian" wackos in Waco and wasn't Columbine, too? Sad and tragic are putting it mildly.) I don't LIKE this "parallel" at all...it was my brother's birthday.



"Pre-emptive":
Before anyone starts spouting
off saying I advocate "gun control", UH-UH! I love to shoot and firmly believe in "the right to bear arms"... What I advocate
is whatever it takes to try and assure them not ending up in the hands of INSANE people who will blithely take the lives of innocent human beings. Guns don't kill people. People kill people.




Peace,
YankeeRose

[Imgrimm01]

I don't know anything about politics, I just know that our government would never lie and they will take care of me.

[RAM Z]

Here 's one for ya! I live in the counrty, but sometimes neighbors bitch out here too. I once invited some friends over for burgers and beers and asked if they could bring their guitars and small amps with them for a little jamm'n afterwards. Well they all came, we got our bellies full then we broke out the music gear and started to jam! Man it wasn't even half an hour and the punks that lived below me decided they didn't want to hear it and fired a couple of shots from their rifles up over the hill towards my home!! Yeah I know , pretty crazy right? At first I was pretty pissed because they were all drunk and who knows where the bullets went but then that feeling came across me, I'll show them!! All my buddies looked at me and must have known that look ,so I just gave em all that evil smerk and said I'll be right back. I went right into the house and got in my secrect stash of anytime fireworks and pulled out some of those three inch mortar shells and a tube to launch them from ,walked out on my back deck,set up the tube ,then fired three of them over their house!!! It was quite a site ,they lit up their entire property !! Needless to say they never complaied about the noise any more! I really don't recommend that ya try that in Altoona but sometimes you have to just fight fire with fire man. I agree with the idea of get'n ahold of every peice of noisy yard equipment you can muster up along with any thing else that can be annoy'n and really give it to em! Maybe the jerks that called the Fuzz on ya were pissed cause they couldn't hear your other neighbors cell phone conversations over their scanners!?

As far as that political thing goes they will all tell ya what ya want to hear to get your vote and once they've got it your opinion doesn't seem to matter to them much any more! I thought that the flags were the way they are because in the old days they couln't tell them apart in battle!?What if they would have put a cute little bunny on it insted of stars and bars ? Would that mean that all bunnies were racsist and evil of course not! There were alot of people who lived in the south that truly belived that all men and women were created equal and that also aided in the down fall of those who thought otherwise reguardless of what was on a flag. Lets all be thankful those terrible, terrible times are behind us and pray for the souls of those who wished the south would have won! Just imagine what it would have been like if they did win ,this great country would be a very bad place to live in my opinion! After all the "Duke Boys"
had a Confederate flag on the General Lee and had plenty of colored friends who didn't mind jump'n in with them when they needed a fast get away!!

[orangekick]

Jim, my friend, I have the solution! Take something loud like a lawnmower or leafblower or something of that nature, set it outside and leave it running when you play...that'll cover up the sound! If they call the cops because of that, then you just find out who it was and torch their house...I mean, yea, do that!

This is a hell of an idea.

[YankeeRose]

This Post is certainly not "prioritized". My reply is in the order in which the topics had been written.



Vinnie mentioned gas prices. As
long as people continue to pay,
like morons, they'll go up. We
need a national boycott, for one
day, whereby nobody buys any gas, as there's no need for gas to be so high...other than the Bush family and all of their cronies are making profits hand over fist, because they can! What we need to do is pay our Farmers to grow plenty of crops so we could have all the Alternative Fuels we need. Then we could tell the Sultans and Emirs to go drown themselves in their oil...of course, then the Sultans, Emirs, major Oil companies and the Bush family would lose a LOT of $ and we just couldn't have that, now could we? They don't CARE how many of our brave Military die in the process, as long as they have access to those oil fields in Iraq and their "bottom line" is protected.



"The war in Iraq was the most successfully executed war in history. It is the peace that was poorly planned and they still don't get it."



That statement just about made me vomit. "War in Iraq" and "most successfully executed war in history", especially. Have you known anyone who's been there, or did you know anyone, even just a little bit...who didn't come back? I do and my daughter did know a young man who graduated in 2003 and didn't live see his 19th birthday. What "war"...we INVADED another country, based on LIES. WHY did we invade and decimate "Ancient Mesopotamia", slaughtering over 100,000 HUMAN BEINGS in the process? Give me one valid, legal reason, that isn't a LIE. "Bush lied, THOUSANDS died!" "PEACE"??? Are you mentally imbalanced? After we'd ruined their entire infrastructue, needlessly, many STILL do not have electricity or water (But, the OIL has been flowing for YEARS!), YOU "don't get" why they want us out and now Iraq is "warming up" to Iran? We just "don't get" how much these Zealots do NOT want us ANYWHERE in the Middle East...they are not a THING like we are, are not raised like we are and we're unfortunately "in" it, now. I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's going to keep getting worse and worse in Iraq, not better...Lord Protect our loved ones still there, heading there, or soon to go over, some for the second time - for they are all TRULY expendable to BushCoward...he does NOT care. By the way, "Mr. RNC Partyline", just WHERE is OSAMA??? He's the #1 Raghead we've SUPPOSEDLY been after, all along, or am I mistaken?



<"Distracting the public? Are you
saying that the public is too
stupid to notice what goes on in
Washington? The public is not
stupid, it is only powerless to do
anything about it, no matter who's
in office.">



By e-mailing and making phone calls to the people currently in office to let them know how we WANT them to vote on a certain issue, we are NOT powerless!!! The majority of the Public ARE distracted and largely UNINFORMED about what
is REALLY going on in Washington, as all the mainstream media does not tell us. That's why the Internet is so Vital. I get notices from MoveOn.org, Penn-Environment, and a few other places that let me know about upcoming votes on National and State levels...letting them know you are a Constituent of theirs and how you would like them to Vote on an issue CAN make a difference!
With 1 Senator and many State Legislators, any way. So can Voting them out of office make a HUGE difference. <whisper> (Santorum.) ROCK THE VOTE!



<"Bad idea? How's this for a bad
idea. Social Security in the 1st
place.">



First, they need to leave it alone
and should NEVER have raided it!!!
Oh, it's a GREAT idea, for the people who "need it"...not all do,
but would what that monthly check even after they got back all they'd paid in, any way. Of course, if you don't care at all about anyone but yourself, or only care about money, anything that is meant to help someone else is going to be perceived as a "bad idea".



The Health Care Plan for everyone that never got passed years ago, I recall hearing nothing but "we won't get to choose what Dr. we want, they'll have to be in a network"...guess what? It is that way NOW, but we do NOT have National Health Care! What a shame. I know many people, several are musicians with families, with no health care or health insurance...it's just not right for them to work so hard, pay their taxes, yet they have to live with the constant fear of knowing if they become ill, they'll lose their homes and all they own with one good hospital stay...but I know how most who don't have to deal with that feel..."it's not me, so what do I care". Well, I "feel their pain".



<"Unemployment is at 5%. Any
legitimate basic economics text
will tell you that full employment
is considered to be 5%.">



PFFFFFFT! That's what I think
of "percentages", charts and graphs. I know far too many people who are hurting...that is where the TRUTH is!



<"BTW, PA is a blue state">



Pennsylvania voted FOR Kerry and I don't care what color that made it,
I was happy to have volunteered and
also to have done my small part and
even registered people to vote, as well...men and women from ALL political parties, too.



Vinnie "loosely" <grin> asked weren't you better off when Clinton was President.


Yes - but the bottom line was the COUNTRY was better off, it's future and the long term future for Posterity (Our children and grandchildren.) were heading in a good direction...Welfare rolls were being reduced...the Environmental controls Bush "rolled back" on his first day in office is sickening...
taxes had been raised, but it wasn't anything "we" couldn't handle...and the large debt that he'd inherited when he took office had begun to get under control - NO, it wasn't easy, but SOMEONE had to have the BALLS to do it! The States and Local Municipalities didn't have to go crazy raising their taxes either, like has going on for several years, due to Bush cutting everything, now did they? "Tax cuts", my ass! YOU CAN'T CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING...it did NOT work when Ronnie did it...if we cut our income and increase our spending, what happens? "Common sense", is all it is, honestly. Now, everything has been undone and things are worse than they ever were...unless you're wealthy...the 1 Percent...
they are sitting pretty. THEM, who cares, no matter whether you're paying more on whatever level, like everyone else, you've got plenty more where that came from thanks to Dubya and that's all that matters...life is GOOD for them.
What is really wrong, is their taxes are cut, they are "sitting pretty" when Republicans are in...yet they're the ones who can AFFORD to pay higher taxes...they'd still be wealthy - when Democrats are in, they "have to dip into their pockets a little"...it doesn't phase them in the least.


<..."companies to bilk the public...>



One word of many like it that exist, involving "bilking", corruption, Government contracts in Iraq and this ONE goes all the up way to Cheney...the Vice President and therefore, the acting President too: "HALIBURTON".



<"I rode the wave up and then sold
all my stock in December of 1999.
Thanks Bill.">


lonewolf, with 1 sentence and "Thanks, Bill", you totally
contradicted yourself! You were ABLE to go back to school while working - or not - and get "Another" "Degree" during the time you had it so "rough"? GOOD FOR YOU and "THANKS, Bill", INDEED!






PEACE,
YankeeRose

[lonewolf]

Let's see, gee, I don't know, but being that the stars and bars are Historically symbols of hatred and oppression,

No its not. It was made into a symbol of hatred and opression during the last few decades. The confederacy was never about hatred and opression.

You probably believe that the Civil War was fought over slavery. Well you'd be incorrect. It was started because people in South Carolina no longer wanted to do what people in Washington told them to do. You don't really think that millions of poor Johnny Rebs went out and fought for a relatively few wealthy land barons' right to own slaves? If you believe that then your brain is fried and there is nothing I can do for you. The issue of slavery was not at the forefront until 1863 when the Union passed the Emancipation Proclamation. General James Longstreet on the eve of the battle of Gettysburg: "We should have freed the slaves, THEN fired on Fort Sumter."

I am no whacko, but the size and depth of the U.S. government is disturbing. What really disturbs me is that people like you think that a large federal government with its thumb in every pie is a good thing.

Edit: I actually took the time to read all your ramblings. Since you seem to know absolutely nothing about reality, I won't take offense at anything you wrote.

[RAM Z]

The idea of boycotting gas prices for one day is something I've been tell'n people ever since the prices went up and over $2.00 a gallon! The teamsters can do it why can't we? I'll tell ya why cause most of the American people can't afford to take off a day of work and don't belive they can get others to follow in such a boycott,but by no means are they morons for pay'n the high prices!We all do it cause we have to get to work and provide for our loved ones. In some ways a national boycott would be good but in other ways not such a good idea. Just think if everyone would stop go'n to work and not go'n on with there every day lives,I personally feel that would be one notch on the belt for those terrorist bastards. Anybody who thinks the war in Iraq is over fuel is crazy! We are there because of the terror attack of 9/11 ! Has no one paid attention to the fact that there has not been an such an attack by those kind of terrorists on our soil since 9/11! Our troops and law enforcement have done a great and outstanding job in keep'n us all safe and I can assure you that the world is a much better place without evil dictators such as Saddam Hussain! Our Commander and Cheif was miss informed as well were we but, if we did not invade Iraq the terrorists would be gett'n all the money and training they needed to commit even more attacks on innocent people! We should not by any means fill our troops with any kind negitivity!
They "All" know that when they enlist in our armed forces that there is always the chance that they may have to go into battle no matter what the reason! Nobody wants their family members in battle but,they are and we should show nothing but support and gratitude towards them for giving up their lives to keep the world safe! Most of our troops feel they are truly make'n a difference in the way we live and I belive that also! Don't worry we will find Bin Laden it just takes time and unfortunatly money, and human life . What's done is done and there is no change'n it!We cannot just pull our troops out Iraq! Do ya think the people in London who didn't support us then do now that a horrible terror attack was commited against them?

As far as the social security thing goes, is it just our government who got their thumbs in the pie or is it the fact that some of our fellow Americans feel it fit to collect SSI cause they're to lazy to work!! I feel like dirt knowing my social security benifits are diminishing cause some lazy peice of shit doesn't want to work and feels like we should pay his or her bills when I have a hard enough time pay'n my own! I think if ya wanna bitch about your social security benifits REPORT those who take advantage of it and that would help solve some of the problem! At least if I could take care of my own social security I would know that I would have something for my future and that Uncle Sam and those who abuse said benifits could not take it from me!!


By the way YankeeRose I'm not say'n you're racisit or anything but for someone who thinks the way ya do about the rebel flag ,what's with the "RAGHEAD" thing? That seems a little hypocritical to me!

[no surrender]

T. Our Commander and Cheif was miss informed as well were we but, if we did not invade Iraq the terrorists would be gett'n all the money and training they needed to commit even more attacks on innocent people!

Man are you clueless!! WAKE UP and smell the bullshit!

[RAM Z]

no surrender, It is just my opinion! I'm for what's go'n on over there for certain reasons that's all, but just for kicks what is your opinion about the "Bullshit"?

[no surrender]

no surrender, It is just my opinion! I'm for what's go'n on over there for certain reasons that's all, but just for kicks what is your opinion about the "Bullshit"?

I could write REAMS about "Bullshit" but just for starters how about invading a country on FALSE PRETENSE!!!

[Bud]

How quickly we seem to forget what Democratic Icons like J.F. Kerry stated, during the Clinton years in office. In October 1998, on the senate floor of congress, Kerry stated that it was a FACT that Saddam had WMD and we should invade Iraq. Now obviously the anti-bush clan will submit that even then Bush and maybe the Illuminatti were pulling the strings and skewing the Intel, but hey Kerry told us it was a FACT, and heaven knows no good Democrat would lie
A few quotes from teh esteemed Senator from Mass. When speaking of Iraq...
"Regime change has been an American policy under the Clinton administration, and it is the current policy"
"Saddam Hussein signed that agreement. Saddam Hussein is in office today because of that agreement. It is the only reason he survived in 1991. In 1991, the world collectively made a judgment that this man should not have weapons of mass destruction. And we are here today in the year 2002 with an uninspected 4-year interval during which time we know through intelligence he not only has kept them, but he continues to grow them.

I believe the record of Saddam Hussein's ruthless, reckless breach of international values and standards of behavior which is at the core of the cease-fire agreement, with no reach, no stretch, is cause enough for the world community to hold him accountable by use of force, if necessary. The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons.

He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation.

The Senate worked to urge action in early 1998. I joined with Senator McCain, Senator Hagel, and other Senators, in a resolution urging the President to "take all necessary and appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end his weapons of mass destruction program."
Ahhh so in 1998, Kerry wanted CLinton to make a military response to WMD, the he KNEW were there.... So was he lying too?? or did he suffer from the same bad Intel, intel generated during the Clinton term...

More taling points - The Stars and Bars were originally a VA battle flag, nothing more. And yes the Civil War was all about State's Rights. The most telling point is that Lincoln didn't issue the Emancipation Proclamation until 1863, more than 18 months after the start of hostilities, and during a period of time thatthe Union was suffering considerable losses. It was clearly a recruiting program, designed to get freed slaves to take up arms with the Union.

Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

And from tthe proclamation

Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion, do, on this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and in accordance with my purpose so to do publicly proclaimed for the full period of one hundred days, from the day first above mentioned, order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States, the following, to wit:

So the war was about slavery you think? Why didn't Lincoln free the slaves everywhere, as soon as the qwar started - as shown above it was as a necessary means to supress the rebellion.

Hmmm one day oil boycott? Totally ineffective, the purpose of that boycott would be not to buy gas for one day - Gee what a difference that would make if we all still used the gas anyway. We'd all just buy it the next day. Not a bad idea, but pretty pointless. Would we really hurt thos eevil rich oil companies? Those nasty sheiks?? Nope, we'd hurt the guy making minimum wage person working at that station - they'd lose that day's pay. Look around the world, the US has the cheapest oil prices of anywhere in the world right now....

We talk about how good the economy was under Clinton, as someone pointed out the Stock Market tanked under Clinton's watch, and dealt a major blow to small investors, and teh economy as a whole.
I also love the liberal tactic of throwing around unsupported numbers - 100,000 Iraqui civillian casualties - documentation please-

And here's my favorite piece of liberal double speak - reface this by saying that local taxes have been going up for years in this area, if no one has noticed, the population has been decreasing locally for the last 20 years, which means fewer people to actually pay taxes, so those of us here have to pay more.. but here is the questionalble logic...

The States and Local Municipalities didn't have to go crazy raising their taxes either, like has going on for several years, due to Bush cutting everything, now did they?

A tax cut is bad, we need taxes to pay for all our programs - but don't raise taxes to pay for those programs, that's even worse, and it's even worse if we can blame it on a Conservative president who put some money back into your pocket with the tax cuts.

OK I'll now don my Asbestos Jammies....

[FatVin]

Let me clear this up once and for all

I brought this up so let me say this: Any objection I had to to the Stars and Bars had little to do with what it was originally created for,

but what it has become.

Ever watch the history channel when they look at the Civil rights movement , Alabama in the 60's and so on, what flag are the bad guys flyin? the Good ol Stars and Bars, how bout an ABC news special report on skinheads militia and the KKK, well, next time they air one, take a real close look, the flags they are flyin are the swastika and the Stars and Bars, when FBI agents shoot it out with gun nuts and seperationists, what flag is usually tacked up in the garage, you guessed it the good ol Stars and Bars

Am I suggesting that our friend Lone Wolf is affiliated with these ne'er do-wells, certainly not, and If I implied that, it was not my intent.

Was, "didn't you guys lose that war" a veild reference to the "War or Northern Agression" as it is occasionally referred to down South (Don't laugh I've heard people do it) Well, maybe it was, but what I was trying to point out was

That it seems to me that particular emblem always seems to be associated with ideas that bring chaos and devisiveness, under the guise of rebellion against a nation gone wrong.

to Our friend I humbly suggest that perhaps one of the original American flags (don't tread on me, springs to mind) might serve his purpose a little better and not bring all the baggage

In truth, while we agree on nothing, I have alot of respect for Lone Wolf, he is as big a right-wing nut job as I am a Liberal weenie.

he never backs down, he always comes with facts that he's carefully researched, even if only on the Rush Limbaugh website, and he is, if nothing else, consistant.

But I have to say that the Stars and Bars are in bad taste.

As to Liberal v Conservative, Republican v Democrat, I think those topics might be best left to another thread, perhaps even another site, this is after all RockPage

[DennySD]

Hey can I say something on topic.

Not about politics, just asshole neighbors and asshole cops.

I finally had a day off the other day and was at my friend's house behind the Logan Valley Mall, in the pool in the middle of the afternoon. There were 8 people ages 18-22 there making a noise that 8 normal people would make if they were in a pool in the middle of the afternoon. No music, no booze, just pool + people.

2 cops show up and talk to my friend, and say something to the effect of "this has been going on for three days now, normally the cutoff time for noise is 10pm but for you it's right now." They then threatened to arrest, not fine but ARREST, my friend if they had to come back.

Now the funny thing was, he was gone during the weekend and no one had been at the house for three days. Let me tell you even if these people were not in uniform and I met them I would say they were assholes with egos the size of montana.

Seeing this firsthand just reaffirms my belief that area police care more about invading your personal life and inflating their egos than actually "serving and protecting."

Some crooks went on a raid last week and stole at least 3 stereos that I know of (including mine, bastards) and broke into at least 12 cars that I know of (ditto). But a few young people in a pool are way more important than that.

Maybe if enough people get pissed something will be done... but from my experience in this area it is probably more likely that I be abducted by aliens.

[bassist4life2004]

Northern Cambria is weird compared to altoona, you could kill 20 people right outside the police station, no one would report/catch you...you rob sheetz...its on!

[bassist4life2004]

Oh, and by the way, there are 2 things that you should never discuss in bars, politics and religion. Same rules to live by should apply for rockpage. lol

Never say the word "Bush" unless it has a "c" after the "s" and before the "h" for example "Busch beer really gives me the beer shits" or "Busch beer makes me shit through my eye sockets during a hangover"

Or you could use in in the context "God, i got some good bush last night" or "I jumped a bush to get away from the PLCB after they enforced a noise ordinance and i spit in their eye"