What rights do we have?

jim bagrosky · Post by **jim bagrosky** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Maybe I can get some feedback here. Recently my drummer and I were rehearsing at my place (within the city of Altoona) on a Sat. afternoon. At around 2:00pm, two of altoona's finest rolled up in two separate cruisers. John and I weren't even playing at the time, just enjoying a beer and a smoke and taking a 10 minute break. I knew instantly someone had made a complaint. The officers informed me that indeed someone had complained about the volume and they had to make the call. Immediately I asked them if there was a certain cut-off point within the city. (time wise or volume wise). They specifically stated that no matter what time of day it is, once the complaint is filed they have no choice but to respond and that the next time a call was put in I would be issued a citation. I kind of feel a little screwed here, figuring it was early afternoon, we had all the doors and windows shut and we always made sure we were finished by 8pm to avoid this very issue. Does anyone have any feedback on how I can tackle this issue or should I just lube up now? Do we have any rights protecting what we do on our own property in the middle of the day?

no surrender · Post by **no surrender** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

So all that is required to issue a citation is a 'complaint'?

The cops never even answered your question about what IS the law here!

They prob don't even know or care!

ERiC_AiXeLsyD · Post by **ERiC_AiXeLsyD** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

...yeah, I'd check your town laws. Call a local library, they can help you. Ususally you can make noise until 8:00 or 9:00 pm without a problem.

If this wasn't the case, you could report your neighbors for mowing their lawn.

tornandfrayed · Post by **tornandfrayed** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

No, generally you have very few rights unless you are a criminal.

orangekick · Post by **orangekick** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Where in Altoona were you jamming? I know that all the past bands that I was in or just hanging with almost never had an issue with the exception of the area right behind the Knickerbocker. I usually just go around and talk to the neighbors that might be within a distance that they could hear it.

Geetarzz · Post by **Geetarzz** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

In altoona you have no rights. It's like the boys in blue said, if they've had a complaint, they WILL give you a fine if they return. This has happened to me, and basically there is nothing you can do about it. Yes, it sucks, but other than maybe talking with the neighbors that filed the complaint, theres nothing you can do about it.

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Here's a question:
If you get a fine and fight the charges, does the person who called in the complaint have to show up in court?

Jones · Post by **Jones** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Bags, sounds like its time to do some soundproofing. Sucks yes, but probably the easiest solution.

jim bagrosky · Post by **jim bagrosky** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Fortunately we have Johns place up the mountain that we've also been using for rehearsal. Just kinda sucks. Does this mean when somone's cutting their grass in mid afternoon and the lawn mower wakes my son up from a nap that I can call the fuzz on them? Just seems rediculous when you really think of it.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

It's always the same... chainsaws and jackhammers are okay, that's progress, that's constructive. It's a simple matter of not caring for whatever music you play, and it's not fair. I used to have a neighbor kid who got a drumset for Christmas one year, and we had to listen to him practice alone, then with his band... honestly, I enjoyed it. He got steadily better with time, not great, but better, then I got to reminisce about what it was like to be in my first band... they were all about 14, and they played the same song over and over and over, everybody was too cool to sing (remember that?), it really took me back. The other neighbors put the kibosh on rehearsing there shortly after that, but not before I cleaned out my basement and gave them a bunch of ancient old PA gear.
Wouldn't it be great if you could retaliate? I'd call John Law for every barking dog, domestic arguement, car alarm, and revving engine... people would have to tiptoe past my house!

----->JMS

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

The Altoona ordinance is vague and wouldn't stand if appealed to a legitimate court. Unfortunately, its not worth the legal cost to fight it and have it struck down.

Legally, it suffers from the same vagueness as the LCB noise rule, except that its worse, by suppressing the rights of individuals-at-large rather than state sanctioned LCB licensees.

You can find legal info regarding this on Rockpage, under "The Law".

esa · Post by **esa** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Ask byndrsn about that.. he has a neurotic neighbor... she calls the police any time they sneeze. Tom..tell them about the Steelers game...

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

you could report your neighbors for mowing their lawn.

I WOULD do this for real. Why does music a 'problem' for so many people around here? Is this what happens when you get old, or did these people never like music?
When my son & friends rehearsed in my garage one summer, and the cops would come, the ironic thing is the cops were so nice and even made a point of telling them that at least they are not causing trouble and that they sounded good, keep it up, just not today...I bet the cops get really tired of these calls.

orangekick · Post by **orangekick** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

ZappasXWife wrote:
you could report your neighbors for mowing their lawn.
I WOULD do this for real. Why does music a 'problem' for so many people around here? Is this what happens when you get old, or did these people never like music?
When my son & friends rehearsed in my garage one summer, and the cops would come, the ironic thing is the cops were so nice and even made a point of telling them that at least they are not causing trouble and that they sounded good, keep it up, just not today...I bet the cops get really tired of these calls.

People are annoying and close-minded when it comes to music in their neighborhood. I used to get so nuch shit wherever my band practiced when I lived in Altoona. That's the one sweet thing about living in Pittsburgh. Almost nobody ever says anything about the noise.

bassist4life2004 · Post by **bassist4life2004** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

We were at a karaoke party for the 4th of July, and the assholes that lived across the street called the cops, so we did the only human thing, turned the PA up louder and started lighting off fireworks.

GuitarBum · Post by **GuitarBum** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

The people out past Carrolltown are like that too. It's farm land from there to Patton and if you have one party, once a year, the cops show up and shut it down. We had a male cop who would stay, have a beer or two, then leave and it was so funny to see the faces of the people who reported things just fall.
I agree about the kids. I'd rather have them practicing in the garage knowing where theya re than having them being skate board rats getting hurt or being vandals or doing drugs or whatever.

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

They don't single us out because we are making noise or making music, they single us out because they know we can't defend ourselves, you guys were tried and convicted of not being able to afford a lawyer.

Meantime, come election day, you will all still probably vote Republican.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

yeah i hear the Democrats rent out rehearsal space.

ERiC_AiXeLsyD · Post by **ERiC_AiXeLsyD** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Practice next to a crackhouse that's afraid to call the police... that's what the Dion does.

Imgrimm01 · Post by **Imgrimm01** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

Just for the record I dodn't know if you all knew it or not... I'm a democrat. any way the key is having cool neighbors hell we rehearse at Kent's place and he has an upstairs neighbor ( Ted ) Ted is one of the coolest guys I know and that helps.

Danette · Post by **Danette** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

orangekick wrote: I know that all the past bands that I was in or just hanging with almost never had an issue with the exception of the area right behind the Knickerbocker.

This has been topic of many discussions at our house! The nimrods in that neighborhood will complain about when kids are playing too loud when most people are awake or even at work (one woman almost caused a neighboorhood riot bc of a barking dog afternoon because she it interfered with her phone conversation she was having on her front porch

) but not about the music coming from the bar when they are trying to sleep. Each year during the warmer months we can sit on our front porch at night on one particular night each week & hear the outside entertainment from the bar plain as day. My son has complained to me several times that he can't sleep because of the music. His bedroom faces the back of the bar. We tell him to shut the windows and turn on a fan rather than call and complain about it. My man and I sit on the porch and play cards & enjoy the entertainment together. How are they not getting hit by the fun police when every other bar in Altoona is getting nailed for the slightest sound of the band playing escaping outside?

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

bassist4life2004 wrote:We were at a karaoke party for the 4th of July, and the assholes that lived across the street called the cops, so we did the only human thing, turned the PA up louder and started lighting off fireworks.

LOVE IT! and Vin, Vote
Republican? I volunteered for Kerry, made phone calls from the Blair County Democratic Headquarters and how about this little gem of a site? www.impeachbush.org Not only him, his whole corrupt, lying Administration. The site is real.
Clinton lying about a blow job, that was Impeachable? What a crock...it was a personal issue.
Besides, he was blown, he didn't SCREW our country and kill over a hundred thousand in another! Abortion? Bush as been in Office for how long and it's been a Republican controlled Senate, House AND Supreme Court...like I told the people I talked to when I made the calls, if Roe vs. Wade was going to be overturned, it would have been done so all ready...it's COMMON SENSE. It'll most likely never happen, but Bush going "bye bye" in the disgrace he deserves is nice to consider! The rest of us, we ALL "have the Right to remain silent, anything we say can and will be used against us in a court of law"...et cetera and then as a friend says, there's Justice, but only for "justus" - those with $, but there's always at least hope... and no, he doesn't Vote at all, he says "it encourages them"...but I could NEVER agree. Besides, there's always the lesser of 2 evils...Democrats aren't "too" evil and are WAY more fun!

bassist4life2004 · Post by **bassist4life2004** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

we live next to extremely nice neighbors on the right, and on the left are the partiers, i could practice on their sidewalks and they wouldnt care. My one neighbor is a drummer, and they always have massive parties over there, so it doesnt matter what we do here. The only thing is, i dont have enough room in my house to have practices here, unless its just for my acoustic band, but we are forever cranking music, and no one calls the cops on us.

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

bassist4life2004 wrote:we live next to extremely nice neighbors on the right, and on the left are the partiers, i could practice on their sidewalks and they wouldnt care. My one neighbor is a drummer, and they always have massive parties over there, so it doesnt matter what we do here. The only thing is, i dont have enough room in my house to have practices here, unless its just for my acoustic band, but we are forever cranking music, and no one calls the cops on us.

Cool. You live in a great place! I'm a firm believer in pay back, one way or another...eventually.
"Pay back is a bitch and I'm a big one." Not really, I'm the "Good Bitch of the East" and a Peaceful person - for the most part, unless someone is hurting a friend or other loved one in some way, then I'm of the "Horton the Elephant" school - fiercely "faithful, 100 percent" and "I got your back". I believe "do unto me or mine, expect to have the same done to you", one way or another. Legally, but of course!!! With the "help of my friends" I've learned there's "Karma", too...and finding things have a way of "evening out"!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Jul 12, 2005

I'm sorry, I'm really amus...er, confused.

Is it:

The Altoona Police department will only enforce the local noise ordinance while there is a sitting republican president?

or

Its George Bush's fault that the Altoona Police department enforces the local noise ordinance.

??