Bands Beware

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday May 23, 2005

Davey has always been great with us. No doubt.

Yeah, this is a tricky situation and I guess what I was trying to convey in my earlier post was be careful how you react to these situations. With the Club Car, we waited until all avenues were exhausted until we went public with our grievance, like you said, to protect our peers from a similar experience. It was amazing how many other bands and DJs had the same type of things happen to them.

That was a situation where it was the Q94 Halloween Bash — lots of promotion involved — we had a signed contract and a solid amount agreed upon. We paid in advance for production because the "sound system" they had was by far the worst thing I've ever heard. It was an event.

And we didn't play in front of chairs. It's been confirmed several times by Club Car employees — and I'm sure JP can vouch for the fact that the place was packed — that Halloween '03 was the biggest night, crowd and money wise, for that club. I've talked with Jerry recently, who was still working there, and he continues to confirm that the joint has yet to see another night like that one and they've never made as much at the register since that night.

Now, they have to contend with the "DJ crowd," which involves a lot of fights, bodies flying through plate glass windows, weapons, etc., because bands won't play there. Not exactly a family atmosphere.

We're still hundreds in the hole from that one as we've received zilch from Days Inn. The club; however, rang in several thousands of $$$ that night and thieved their way right to the bank with it. As I said before, the corporate office basically challenged me to sue them for the money, so at that point I figured it would cost them more in bad PR than the money they owed us. I was right.

While I hear what you guys are saying about the City Limits episode, I just thought maybe you all jumped the gun a little bit, expressing your displeasure with Claudio so loudly (the name calling and stuff) right away without speaking to him about it. It would be a shame if you guys lost potential gigs at other clubs because they're afraid you'll slam them publicly.

Remember, when you play for the door, sometimes you get dick.

r:>)

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Monday May 23, 2005

In the same sentence, Rob, ...if they aren't going to go back on their deal, and keep their word...why would they have to be afraid?

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday May 23, 2005

DMFJ03 wrote:In the same sentence, Rob, ...if they aren't going to go back on their deal, and keep their word...why would they have to be afraid?

What I'm saying is, if you develop a "reputation" for shooting from the hip, you may, without ever knowing it, red flag your band with certain club owners.

Example: "Club Owner X," who plays golf with Claudio, reads Rockpage, sees you ripping him apart, calling him names, and says, "fuck those guys, they'll never play here." Then, when you try to book "Club X" and get nowhere, you're left scratching your heads.

I know Claudio doesn't make "deals" like your talking about, other than "you play for the door." So I don't see the argument here that he "backed out of his end of the deal." You admit you all drank well that night. Realistically, it's a matter of "he said, she said" when it comes right down to it. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just saying you disagree with how much $$$ you were given, and Claudio apparently was using a different calculator than you were.

Of course, this is all about what you want out of this biz. If you don't care what people think, then that's your perogative. Bitch slap as many club owners as you wish. Just be prepared to deal with the fact that club owners read this site and they talk amongst each other.

Finally, remember that whenever I express a viewpoint about anything, it's based on my past experiences and my business ethics. Just offering advice here. Take from it what you wish and to hell with the rest.

And, as always, rock on.

r:>)

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Monday May 23, 2005

I'm not trying to bust your stones, Rob, please know that.

At this moment in time, yes - the money means a little more to me than the rest of the guys because this is my only source of income at this point. However - what blew my top off was that he got ignorant with us first, before we even did anything.

If he had a problem with how much we were drinking, he should have said something to us. Not bitch and moan to Lisa about it. Even though she is a very well respected part of this band, she's not in the band. Don't bitch to her, bitch to us. We didn't know what was going on until after the "Thank you and goodnight" speech. We were greatful for everything he did for us, then when he got pissy...we got pissy back. He isn't getting anything less than he deserves. Don't give it if you can't take it.

Like Dan said - we thoughts everything was roses. He was going on about getting us in on Saturdays, how much he liked us - we didn't hear a negative word until the house lights came back on. No one desrves to be treated that way, it's shady if you ask me.

JeffLeeper · Post by **JeffLeeper** » Monday May 23, 2005

I've been in this business probably as long as some of you have been alive , and it's always unfortunate when something like this happens.

I can't really speak from the experience of gigging at City Limits , but I can say that the experience I do have with Claudio is that he is very generous.

When some very good bands did the benefit for my family , he was very gracious . He supplied the place free of charge and we got all the cash that came in. Of course I wasn't at your gig , but I really believe that someone like this wouldn't intentionally rip off a band...especially a well-liked band like yours.

Rob's always a voice of reason on this board , and maybe you should give it another try with Claudio. Like I said , I havn't dealt with him much , but when I did , he really came through for me. Just have an open mind , and seriously....I've been doing this for a long , long time....and it's usually a misunderstanding that leads to problems.

Good luck.

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Monday May 23, 2005

I agree, Jeff.

I heard nothing but good things about him all across the board, that was one of the reasons why I was looking forward to playing there. Like I said, everything seemed fine and then boom. The bottom fell out.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Monday May 23, 2005

No, there was no misunderstanding. $60 divided by a $5.00 cover equals 12 people. There were exactly twelve people there just from the company that I work for. There were people in and out all evening. There were 29 people there when we finished (after 3 encores). It wasn't a huge crowd, but it was a fun crowd.

And again, it is not about the money. It is the principle of it all.

And, as far as the beer thing - that was the deal he made with us. I have a tap system at home and know how much beer costs. I'm sure it costs bars even less than I can buy it. And, these pitchers were not all that big. We are talking 5 glasses of beer (at the most) out of each pitcher.

Like Jae said, if he had a problem with our drinking - he should have said something to US. But the bottom line is that he cheated us out of the agreement with the door money and I was upset because of that. Not worried about the money, but I am not going to give business to someone with that kind of lack of integrity.

Again, I don't care about burning bridges. I truly believe that most bar owners are good people and stand behind whatever deal they make. For instance, I know Peter C's has been bashed on here several times and the one thing I will say is that regardless if you think Big John is being fair or not - You always know what the deal is up front and he sticks to it. This was not the case at City Limits. We've had a lot of fun playing Peter C's, Victory Lanes and The Hitching Post just to name a few Altoona venues we've been at. I don't think our rep with these places will suffer because WE got shafted at City Limits and feel the need to let others know. If that is the way this business works, then I'd rather never play a bar again than to have to worry about everything I say.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Monday May 23, 2005

Jesus christ will this thread just die already! If i bitched every time i got ripped off at shows id have my own forum.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Monday May 23, 2005

Hurricane wrote:Jesus christ will this thread just die already! If i bitched every time i got ripped off at shows id have my own forum.

what crawled up your ass??

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Monday May 23, 2005

Simple. Hurricane speaks his mind, just like you guys.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Monday May 23, 2005

ToonaRockGuy wrote:Simple. Hurricane speaks his mind, just like you guys.

Yeah, that is true!

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday May 23, 2005

Hurricane wrote:If i bitched every time i got ripped off at shows id have my own forum.

Word.

r:>)

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Monday May 23, 2005

edited, i was out of line.

MakinSumNoise · Post by **MakinSumNoise** » Monday May 23, 2005

Hurricane wrote:Its a part of the biz, you cant take it then get the fuck out. Whining on here isnt going to change a fucking thing, just make you and your band look stupid like you've already done.

Which is what you just did right now, aye?
I thought this forum was for you to vent your views, opinions, ideals, dreams, and the good, bad, and very very ugly.
I've seen you do some bitching on here. I've heard you do bitching at your shows. I've also seen you guys have too much turky and get very nasty attitudes. There used to be a "Don't give Bobby any more turky" sign at the Hitching Post. I've also been to a few of your shows when you've been drinking and are very funny.
I'm not saying this to piss you off, but it's true. This forum is open to anything. And if you are sick and tired of reading this post, then...Stop.Reading.It. Problem solved.

From what I've seen on this post, this band got blacked over. I was at City Limits for a while. There was a crowd there and it was more than sixty dollars worth of people by far. If this band feels the need to bring up a post to warn other bands, then I'm thankful. Because if or when my group finally gets in there, I'll be more cautious. I'll have a door person sitting with their door person. I will get in writing the other things. I'd rather have two seconds of forsight then an hour of hind.

So calm down. Don't like this post, stop reading it. Or offer some type of advice to them since you've "paid your dues in this area than three of their lifetimes, bud". Help the bands that aren't as well known as Felix and the 'canes, Hairforce One, Fat Vinny, et. all. Help them out, don't bitch them out.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Monday May 23, 2005

Point taken

We bands do have to stick together.

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Monday May 23, 2005

Hurricane wrote:Jesus christ will this thread just die already! If i bitched every time i got ripped off at shows id have my own forum.

http://www.felixandthehurricanes.com/phpbb2/index.php

You do, don't ya?

Just kidding Bobby! Seriously though.... I'm wishing this thread would die at this point!

Ron.... is there a way I can get a breathalyzer hooked up to my PC? This way I'd need to expel a breath before logging into the page after a gig

If I'm over the limit.... I'd get this windows error message

"You have exceeded the maximum limit of alcohol and are incapacitated in the ways of logical thought. Please move away from the keyboard. No one wants to hear your incessant rambling anyhow.... Jackass!

"

Of course.... I might end up going through a lot of PC's.... I'd be waking my wife up to log me in and shit.... that would be bad!

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Monday May 23, 2005

LOL ! Sorry Urbs and Dan, bad mood today.

Bag · Post by **Bag** » Monday May 23, 2005

Hey GuitarII, I think we've ALL been there at least once.

the herald · Post by **the herald** » Monday May 23, 2005

What kind of beans did you say you liked again???

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Monday May 23, 2005

Actually, I like's 'em all! I make this awesome 10 bean chili with mushrooms topped with jack n' cheddar, not real spicy but the best I've tasted when making a Frito pie! Won't make you real popular with the ladies though!!

...... I oughta be on Emeril! Bam!

TJ Kelly · Post by **TJ Kelly** » Monday May 23, 2005

Dan, remember that girl that you worked the deal out with but came up short on your end?

Sorry man I couldn't resist!

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday May 23, 2005

Mmmmm ....... beans ...

r:>)

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Tuesday May 24, 2005

TJ Kelly wrote:Dan, remember that girl that you worked the deal out with but came up short on your end?

Sorry man I couldn't resist!

Oh yeah

The last thing I heard here say was "How cute, it looks like a penis, only smaller

" I then said, "yeah, but look at these guns!" threw down some flex, gave her the elbow and pushed her out onto the street....

whoah, started to let the Wolfie in me come out.... sorry about that!

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Tuesday May 24, 2005

I feel for you guys, but, shit happens. Honestly, that doesn't sound like Claudio at all. I remember about 7 years ago, I was in a band called "Purple" and we travelled from Johnstown to play when City Limits was still Sabs. We played there once a month, usually on a Friday, and our top draw was about 30 people. He was always too cool to us and no, we didn't make tons of dough, but it was still fun and I look foward to playing there with my new group.

I do understand your point though.

I think an even better point to make is expanding or expounding on the fact that "if they don't know you, they won't come!" That's crap and I wish people would expand their minds a little bit and try something different. You just might like it.

In my brief hiatus between groups, I've made it a point to check out bands I've never seen and, honestly, I haven't been let down once. There's a lot of GREAT talent out their so we, as musicians, have to find a way to get these people in the door. How, you ask? If I knew, I'd share the info with everyone and none of us would have to have day jobs!

All you can do is take your lumps and keep on plugging away. It all makes for good stories on those long drives home. I've been doing this for over 26 years and I wouldn't trade any of it for anything! I got to hear you guys and I think your pretty good. Your time will come so put it behind you and just concentrate on kicking some musical ass!

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Tuesday May 24, 2005

"if they don't know you, they won't come!" That's crap and I wish people would expand their minds a little bit and try something different. You just might like it.

...Preaching to the choir! I myself would like to check out Beyond Reason very soon. See, you are only creating publicity with your plight. But Bobby is right in a way, I know those guys have paid their dues but they don't bitch about that too much, they just keep going. And I hope you have a better day today Bobby.
Guitar ll , what is Frito Pie, whatever it is, I bet it IS great with chili!
TODAY IS BOB DYLAN'S BIRTHDAY
herald, I miss you, give us a call

ROCKPAGE

Bands Beware

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