Just a warning to anyone wanting to play City Limits..... don't! We found out yesterday, Thursday, that Claudio needed a band tonight. So, even though we normally won't book 2 jobs in the same weekend, i called to see if he wanted us to play. He told me that he definitely did and thanked me for getting him out of the jam he was in without a band for a Friday night. We agreed that he would provide sound, at no cost, draught beer and we'd get the door. I said, cool, sounds pretty good for a last minute booking right?
So, with less than a day to advertise, we bring over 60 people in throughout the night to City Limits, at $5.00 a head. At the end of the night there are still 20-25 + in the place. I didn't think that was too bad for short notice! The sound guy, Scott tells us that this was the most people they had seen on a Friday night in a long time. An old friend, from a very popular area band told me that the Friday nights that they've played in there at times have been to the chairs!
We walked out with $60.00!!! Claudio played the old Blues Brothers bit... "well, $300.00, less the beers you boys drank, etc, etc..." We had exactly 8 picher's throughout the night. Even if they were $10 a piece we still made over $220.00 from the door. Everyone that was there, told us they had spent well over $40 in drinks and we got fucked! Needless to say, we'll never play there again, even though everyone there said they had a blast!
Has anyone else been taken advantage of @ City Limits? He needed a band, we provided the entertainment and he went against the deal....
Bands Beware
Daniel,
I will have my response to this tomorrow (or I may even start my own post - I don't know).
I think it better that I wait until then.
But, in the meanwhile. Screw "Claudia" (yeah, I know his name is not spelled femine like that) and screw City Limits. I think we really deserved better than the way we were treated. Hell, I am usually harder on "US" than anyone else and I think we deserved better.
Oh well, I've "DRANK WAY TOO MUCH"
tonight and should just wait until morning to write up "my perspective" of what occured this evening. Hell, it could be interesting!!
Either way - I am still so very grateful to our fans (Lisa, Keith and his lover, the crew from NPC, a couple of the Blair County ABATE folks, the couple from Maryland ABATE, the guys from "the 2 other bands" that were there, the "double bubble" girls, JP, the folks from the "grean monster", and so on and so forth) - because of those folks, we had a GREAT time playing tonight!!!! (not to mention the two young hotties that danced throughout our second and third sets!!!!)
Thomas B.
I will have my response to this tomorrow (or I may even start my own post - I don't know).
I think it better that I wait until then.
But, in the meanwhile. Screw "Claudia" (yeah, I know his name is not spelled femine like that) and screw City Limits. I think we really deserved better than the way we were treated. Hell, I am usually harder on "US" than anyone else and I think we deserved better.
Oh well, I've "DRANK WAY TOO MUCH"
tonight and should just wait until morning to write up "my perspective" of what occured this evening. Hell, it could be interesting!!Either way - I am still so very grateful to our fans (Lisa, Keith and his lover, the crew from NPC, a couple of the Blair County ABATE folks, the couple from Maryland ABATE, the guys from "the 2 other bands" that were there, the "double bubble" girls, JP, the folks from the "grean monster", and so on and so forth) - because of those folks, we had a GREAT time playing tonight!!!! (not to mention the two young hotties that danced throughout our second and third sets!!!!)
Thomas B.
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man; a debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
Well, now that I have my head on straight, I'd like to say this. If you've never played at City limits... Do it, just beware!
The stage and sound is great! Scott is one of the best sound guys in the area.... my opinion, and the staff there was great! The only one that screwed us was Claudio...
He even said that he wasn't expecting anyone to show for it being short notice on a Friday. Well they did, and his greed took over. He stole from us, plain and simple. But.... meeting Scott and the others there was priceless!!!!
Thumbs up to the staff at City Limits! You folks are what it's all about!!
The stage and sound is great! Scott is one of the best sound guys in the area.... my opinion, and the staff there was great! The only one that screwed us was Claudio...
He even said that he wasn't expecting anyone to show for it being short notice on a Friday. Well they did, and his greed took over. He stole from us, plain and simple. But.... meeting Scott and the others there was priceless!!!!
Thumbs up to the staff at City Limits! You folks are what it's all about!!
Shift has played at City Limits for a couple years now. In the beginning I thought we were being taken advantage of because it seemed like we didn't get all the door money.
After a few gigs I asked Claudio about it. He told me that you can't just count the heads coming in the door and mulitply by $5.00/ea. Part of the issues is that as it gets later, people are not willing to pay $5.00 to get in, so they will lower the cover charge. I don't think there is any set policy or formula as to when this happens, but I have seen it myself.
With that said, I still think we never get all the money that comes in the door, but we have never left there with less than $200.00, even on a crappy night.
He also never charges us for drafts, but we don't drink that much anyway.
Part of the benefit of City Limits is that it is an easy gig. We don't have to bring anything except instruments. 20 Minute tear down and load-out... Priceless!
I'm sorry it worked out that way for you. Overall we like City Limits and Claudio. You should go talk to him and let him know hw you feel. Maybe an afternoon visit will make more sense than the explanation you get at 2:30 AM.
Cheers.
After a few gigs I asked Claudio about it. He told me that you can't just count the heads coming in the door and mulitply by $5.00/ea. Part of the issues is that as it gets later, people are not willing to pay $5.00 to get in, so they will lower the cover charge. I don't think there is any set policy or formula as to when this happens, but I have seen it myself.
With that said, I still think we never get all the money that comes in the door, but we have never left there with less than $200.00, even on a crappy night.
He also never charges us for drafts, but we don't drink that much anyway.
Part of the benefit of City Limits is that it is an easy gig. We don't have to bring anything except instruments. 20 Minute tear down and load-out... Priceless!
I'm sorry it worked out that way for you. Overall we like City Limits and Claudio. You should go talk to him and let him know hw you feel. Maybe an afternoon visit will make more sense than the explanation you get at 2:30 AM.
Cheers.
I'm not sure of all the details, and I don't want to offend anyone even though we aren't even considering the Altoona market. But............ ( yeah, I can never keep my mouth shut ) A last minute job is worth more than $60 dollars, and a pitcher of beer probably only costs the bar $2.50 to fill ?
Sounds like you guys had fun though so don't let the broken agreement ruin the fun you had.
Sounds like you guys had fun though so don't let the broken agreement ruin the fun you had.
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.
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Bert|Evil
- Platinum Member
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Re: Bands Beware
He's given the shaft to many 'o band. I can speak personally, even back to the Sebastiano's days. Uncle Aldo treats you better!GUITARII wrote:Just a warning to anyone wanting to play City Limits..... don't! We found out yesterday, Thursday, that Claudio needed a band tonight. So, even though we normally won't book 2 jobs in the same weekend, i called to see if he wanted us to play. He told me that he definitely did and thanked me for getting him out of the jam he was in without a band for a Friday night. We agreed that he would provide sound, at no cost, draught beer and we'd get the door. I said, cool, sounds pretty good for a last minute booking right?
So, with less than a day to advertise, we bring over 60 people in throughout the night to City Limits, at $5.00 a head. At the end of the night there are still 20-25 + in the place. I didn't think that was too bad for short notice! The sound guy, Scott tells us that this was the most people they had seen on a Friday night in a long time. An old friend, from a very popular area band told me that the Friday nights that they've played in there at times have been to the chairs!
We walked out with $60.00!!! Claudio played the old Blues Brothers bit... "well, $300.00, less the beers you boys drank, etc, etc..." We had exactly 8 picher's throughout the night. Even if they were $10 a piece we still made over $220.00 from the door. Everyone that was there, told us they had spent well over $40 in drinks and we got fucked! Needless to say, we'll never play there again, even though everyone there said they had a blast!
Has anyone else been taken advantage of @ City Limits? He needed a band, we provided the entertainment and he went against the deal....
Do what Scream does, put a roadie (or even a girlfriend) at the door. Wouldn't that fix the problem? As long as Claudio doesn't have a problem with it, and why should he? It's supposed to be YOUR money!
I'm good friends with the guys in Scream and I usually work Sat. nights until at least midnite. Which, depending on where the gig is, means I get 1 set or maybe a set and a 1/2. I STILL pay the $5.00, and it doesn't bother me a bit. Jeff has offered to give it back to me before, because I go back a long way with them, but I just tell him that I dont want it. Have a guy you know you can trust at the door and your problem is solved.
I'm good friends with the guys in Scream and I usually work Sat. nights until at least midnite. Which, depending on where the gig is, means I get 1 set or maybe a set and a 1/2. I STILL pay the $5.00, and it doesn't bother me a bit. Jeff has offered to give it back to me before, because I go back a long way with them, but I just tell him that I dont want it. Have a guy you know you can trust at the door and your problem is solved.
First and foremost - I had a blast!! There was alot of movement going on, the band was really tight last night, we were having fun, the sound was great, and we met some really awesome people.
However...
I am never going to give Claudio my business again. Not only did he shaft us (and shafted us hard he did), he was an arrogant, ignorant prick asshole who is lucky that he didn't get frog-stomped.
Drummer: "I'm here for the door."
Claudio: "It's right there." says he as he points to the front doors.
When Esa, our beloved beer wench, went to refill our pitcher second to the last time. Claudio looked at her said "You've got to be kidding me?!". Then, on the last time he made the bold statement of "My $2, 000 bands don't drink that many pitchers!"
To that, all I can say is...You show me a $2,000 band, in City Limits, and I'll show you a hummer.
We had seven or eight pitchers of beer. Even with the small cups that we had, if everyone filled an empty glass with tastey adult beverage, four cups and the pitcher is almost dead. There isn't enough for a full glass left. For the Myers/Urbain/Smith boys...eight pitchers of beer is a spit in the well on a slow night. You should see us on a good night! I know that I myself, in a three hour period, can drink four pitchers of beer by my lonesome. Trust me, I've seen me do it!
Gah - just going through this again is making my blood boil. I'm going to stop now before I really say what I feel about that theiving, rat bastard.
Again - thanks to everyone who came out last night. JP - you da man! The NPC gang - you're awesome. Our brothers and sister in ABATE - you are the greatest, and to the new fans we made last night - we hope to see you all again soon.
However...
I am never going to give Claudio my business again. Not only did he shaft us (and shafted us hard he did), he was an arrogant, ignorant prick asshole who is lucky that he didn't get frog-stomped.
Drummer: "I'm here for the door."
Claudio: "It's right there." says he as he points to the front doors.
When Esa, our beloved beer wench, went to refill our pitcher second to the last time. Claudio looked at her said "You've got to be kidding me?!". Then, on the last time he made the bold statement of "My $2, 000 bands don't drink that many pitchers!"
To that, all I can say is...You show me a $2,000 band, in City Limits, and I'll show you a hummer.
We had seven or eight pitchers of beer. Even with the small cups that we had, if everyone filled an empty glass with tastey adult beverage, four cups and the pitcher is almost dead. There isn't enough for a full glass left. For the Myers/Urbain/Smith boys...eight pitchers of beer is a spit in the well on a slow night. You should see us on a good night! I know that I myself, in a three hour period, can drink four pitchers of beer by my lonesome. Trust me, I've seen me do it!
Gah - just going through this again is making my blood boil. I'm going to stop now before I really say what I feel about that theiving, rat bastard.
Again - thanks to everyone who came out last night. JP - you da man! The NPC gang - you're awesome. Our brothers and sister in ABATE - you are the greatest, and to the new fans we made last night - we hope to see you all again soon.
Jae Smith
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
www.facebook.com/rootandthefifths
www.twitter.com/rootfifths
www.pabands.com
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
www.facebook.com/rootandthefifths
www.twitter.com/rootfifths
www.pabands.com
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Victor Synn
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We've played at City almost since we started and aside from a couple slower nights on the attendance front, we've never once been screwed by Claudio monetarily. Matter of fact, it's been a good experience from both ends. Maybe whenever your anger over the situation subsides, you could talk to Claudio about maybe giving you all a Saturday gig and see if the same situation happens. Saturday is their peak night, so I would imagine the same problem wouldn't reoccur.
Hair Force One: We got your EN_ER_GY right here!
Visit: www.hf1rocks.com
Visit: www.hf1rocks.com
Vic,
I gotta tell ya, I was exstatic when Claudio gave us the opportunity to play there and he seemed genuinely enthused about us coming down on short notice. At the start of the night, we talked, and he said, "I'm really not expecting anyone tonight. Fridays aren't really that good for us but we occasionally get some stragglers."
I'm like, "that's cool", short notice and all. The thing that burns me is that a good crowd did show, most stayed.... at the start of the 2nd set he said he wanted to get us back on a Saturday.... I was thrilled! Scott told us he hadn't seen that many folks on a Friday night in a long time.... then at the end of the night and we didn't get paid, we started asking everyone how much they paid to get in.... they all said $5.00 with the exception of a couple that came in late.
Frankly, it's not even about the money.... I have a steady job, this is just a hobby for me. It's the principle.... I've gone into smaller bars, out in the sticks, played to 10-15 people and made $200 + from the bar.... Not only that, but HE NEEDED A BAND, we had no intention of playing anywhere because we limit gigs to 1 a weekend because of our families, we made an exception because a girl at work asked me to... because she worked for Claudio and he needed someone to play. We know how many people forked a fiver at the door.... What happened last night was a crook taking advantage of a new comer to is establishment.... the sad thing is, we're not the best band in the world, and don't draw half the crowd that a band of your stature might (you guys rock!!
) on a good night, but we are developing a pretty good following so to speak....
he lost a lot more than he gained last night, and there's the justice.
I'm happy things continue to go well for you there.... Keep Rockin!!
And Tony.... you're right dude! Live and Learn... in either case we had a blast and got a lot of potential gigs out of it!!
I gotta tell ya, I was exstatic when Claudio gave us the opportunity to play there and he seemed genuinely enthused about us coming down on short notice. At the start of the night, we talked, and he said, "I'm really not expecting anyone tonight. Fridays aren't really that good for us but we occasionally get some stragglers."
I'm like, "that's cool", short notice and all. The thing that burns me is that a good crowd did show, most stayed.... at the start of the 2nd set he said he wanted to get us back on a Saturday.... I was thrilled! Scott told us he hadn't seen that many folks on a Friday night in a long time.... then at the end of the night and we didn't get paid, we started asking everyone how much they paid to get in.... they all said $5.00 with the exception of a couple that came in late.
Frankly, it's not even about the money.... I have a steady job, this is just a hobby for me. It's the principle.... I've gone into smaller bars, out in the sticks, played to 10-15 people and made $200 + from the bar.... Not only that, but HE NEEDED A BAND, we had no intention of playing anywhere because we limit gigs to 1 a weekend because of our families, we made an exception because a girl at work asked me to... because she worked for Claudio and he needed someone to play. We know how many people forked a fiver at the door.... What happened last night was a crook taking advantage of a new comer to is establishment.... the sad thing is, we're not the best band in the world, and don't draw half the crowd that a band of your stature might (you guys rock!!
) on a good night, but we are developing a pretty good following so to speak.... he lost a lot more than he gained last night, and there's the justice.
I'm happy things continue to go well for you there.... Keep Rockin!!
And Tony.... you're right dude! Live and Learn... in either case we had a blast and got a lot of potential gigs out of it!!
Hey GuitarII, I'd just hate to see you "burn bridges", you know? There aren't a whole lot of "bigger" rooms left, and I'd hate to see you lose out over one bad experience. It no doubt sounds like you got fucked, but live and learn. Maybe Claudio was just having a bad day or something, who knows? Maybe someone in the band pissed him off, who knows? Granted, it does sound like he STOLE money from you, and that sucks, but you might need City Limits sometime.
Just my 2 cents. (That and 2 bucks will get you a beer! )
Bag
Just my 2 cents. (That and 2 bucks will get you a beer!
)Bag
Third Standard has been playing at City Limits for almost a year now, and I must give some respect to Claudio, when we first started there and the Altoona attitude of "we don't know them, so we aren't going" was still in effect for two or three shows, Claudio always went above and beyond and gave us more than we had actually brought in, because he liked the band, and he knew that some of us drove quite aways to get there (I live in Clarion). Granted every bar owner will act according to their own needs, and also we don't drink too much (maybe a six pack between the four of us during a show). We have had our beefs with some of his scheduling tactics (we have been rescheduled twice for other bands...which is strange because we have turned into a great draw for him), but he is looking out for his bottom line, just like anyone else would....and to look at it from that perspective makes it easier for me to understand. There is a great deal of competition for people in the Altoona scene, and you have to do what you have to do to put food on the table for your family and keep your business alive.
Just remember that word gets around, especially from Rockpage, and airing grievances on here is never a good bet for business, because this is not only a musician's forum, bar owners frequent this site as well, as does the everyday fans.
Just remember that word gets around, especially from Rockpage, and airing grievances on here is never a good bet for business, because this is not only a musician's forum, bar owners frequent this site as well, as does the everyday fans.
Bag wrote:Hey GuitarII, I'd just hate to see you "burn bridges", you know? There aren't a whole lot of "bigger" rooms left, and I'd hate to see you lose out over one bad experience. It no doubt sounds like you got fucked, but live and learn. Maybe Claudio was just having a bad day or something, who knows? Maybe someone in the band pissed him off, who knows? Granted, it does sound like he STOLE money from you, and that sucks, but you might need City Limits sometime.
Just my 2 cents. (That and 2 bucks will get you a beer!
Bag
Ya know what - I was going to just say "Fuck It" and not post my thoughts, until I saw this post.
FUCK BURNING BRIDGES!!! Like Dan said, we are not the best, but we are good. We had people dancing, we had people show up, we had people drinking, we had people participating, and we had a lot of people having a good time!!!!!
The motherfucker ripped us off!! BOTTOM LINE!!! I don't care about the money either (just like Dan pointed out) - but I do care about integrity. And, Claudia showed us just where his "integrity" lies. Ya know what is funny, we got $60 whopping dollars - at $5 a head that is 12 people!!! As far as my count goes - There was EXACTLY 12 people there just from the company that I work for. SO WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE OTHER 25-30 (or more) PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE??????????
Again, it is not about the cash - it is about him being a crook!!!!
I also understand the whole "It's a business"concept. But, let's look at this a different way - okay? If Claudia has his business and has been serving fried foods and such for a while and decided to offer pizza - but in order to do that he would need a good pizza oven. So, he gets in touch with the guy that sells pizza ovens and then makes him a "deal" that he will pay him according to how many people actually order pizza's..... do you think the manufacturer of the pizza ovens would take his offer??? NO - So, why the hell do we (as musicians) take this kind of offer??? We have a service to provide - and obviously - bar keeps like Claudia want (or need) us to provide that service. So why do we short change ourselves????
And, Bag, as far as burning bridges - I would much rather play in a field for a bunch of keg party'ers or bikers than play for a fucking asshole like Claudia (and Beyond Reason gets a good bit of Biker parties!!) If I never play again because of this man and the bridges I’ve burned I will still be okay!! I don’t need him or anyone like him. I would much rather entertain myself than sell myself out for politically correct bullshit!!!!
And you are right - maybe that asshole was having a bad day - so fucking what?? If the other members of the band hadn’t kept me back, he would have had a really terrible summer!!!!!!!!!!
Also, I do know that word gets around. I know that many people are talking about how Beyond Reason is a Great party band. And I REALLY HOPE that by airing this out on here that many bar owners (that are not crooks) realize that we are what we are, but also realize that we are not going to put up with a bunch a shit. I wouldn't want to play in those establishments anyways. Know what I mean???
Hell, I'm a rebel, and I am proud of it. I don't mince words, I don't beat around the bush, I don't play games, I don't rip people off. I am who I am. If you don't like it - oh well. And, I expect the same from anyone else. If I get fucked over, then shame on the person who did that to me - if it would happen again, then shame on me for not learning from the last time. BUT!!! I can tell you this. I know A LOT of people, and Claudia's actions will make a difference, he may not realize it - but there will be MANY people who will never step foot in his establishment!!
With that said - I do respect venues that will work with you. I have no problem playing for nothing if the bar took a loss. I will work with anyone. So will the rest of the band. But, that dickhead was dishonest, and I can't adhere to that!!! I won't tolerate it, I won't adhere to it, I won't live with it, and I will definitely not promote it!!! I will however promote an anti-City Limits campaign.
And – I think you are wrong!! Airing grievances on here might be good. I hope other bar owners see this and realize what is going on. I hope that most (or some of them) understand and try to work “WITH US” and not against us. There are soooo many things that I hope for…….And I also hope our fans DO SEE THIS!!!! I hope they support us and hope that they realize that we don’t take shit from just anyone. I hope our fans are much the same as us – and I will leave it at that.
I WILL NEVER EVER SPEND A PENNY IN CITY LIMITS – NEVER AGAIN!!!!
Okay, before I say anything else – because there is sooooo much more that I wish to say, I am going to finish my beer (YA I’m AN ALCOHOLIC - SO THE FUCK WHAT!!!) and I am going to go to bed.
Urbs
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man; a debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
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Punkinhead
- Diamond Member
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- Location: The ninth circle of Hell
Bag wrote:Hey GuitarII, I'd just hate to see you "burn bridges", you know? There aren't a whole lot of "bigger" rooms left, and I'd hate to see you lose out over one bad experience. It no doubt sounds like you got fucked, but live and learn. Maybe Claudio was just having a bad day or something, who knows? Maybe someone in the band pissed him off, who knows? Granted, it does sound like he STOLE money from you, and that sucks, but you might need City Limits sometime.
Just my 2 cents. (That and 2 bucks will get you a beer!
Bag
Sometimes I think that bands and people in general not burning bridges is one of the reasons this area struggles at times...
If youth knew; if age could.
"And you are right - maybe that asshole was having a bad day - so fucking what?? If the other members of the band hadn’t kept me back, he would have had a really terrible summer!!!!!!!!!!"
Now you gotta admit, THAT'S funny!
Hey, dude, I'm on your side! Just thought maybe you were making a "rash" decision, that's all.
Peace, Bag
Now you gotta admit, THAT'S funny!
Hey, dude, I'm on your side! Just thought maybe you were making a "rash" decision, that's all.
Peace, Bag
That's kind of your choice. Quite frankly, You don't have to "play for how many pizzas you sell" if you don't want to. You chose to.byndrsn wrote:So, he gets in touch with the guy that sells pizza ovens and then makes him a "deal" that he will pay him according to how many people actually order pizza's..... do you think the manufacturer of the pizza ovens would take his offer??? NO - So, why the hell do we (as musicians) take this kind of offer??? We have a service to provide - and obviously - bar keeps like Claudia want (or need) us to provide that service. So why do we short change ourselves????
We've played City a couple times. Some nights we've been handed a nice wad of $$$, other nights, we each put $5 in our pockets. We realize we haven’t worked Altoona that hard so when we don’t get the turnout or the money, we accept it. The point is, it's your decision to play for the door, and when you do, many times, you come up short.
We only really play one show for the door -- Davey's -- because we're established there and we make money there. Otherwise, we negotiate a rate. There are clubs out there that will agree to a price; you gotta shop around for them. We’ve only had one situation in 2 ½ years where we agreed to a rate, had a contract, and didn’t get paid. We were basically challenged to sue. Instead, we opted to move on but let our peers know about the experience. That club paid in the long run.
I think it's a little unfair for you to pass judgment, and possibly commit libel, in this situation after your first show there (and probably your last). You’ve admitted you downed 8 pitchers. To me, that’s kind of taking advantage of the deal. Furrer Beverage does charge the bars for this beer when they deliver it.
Did you tip the wait staff?
Bottom line, you’re not entitled to anything in this biz. No one is. If you don’t like it, move on and play someplace else. But I’ll guarantee you burned a bridge here. Maybe not just with Claudio. People read this site, club owners in particular.
Be careful.
r:>)
That's what she said.
This is one of those post I shouldn't even be responding to but as always, i can't keep my mouth shut.
Sounds to me like they didn't get the door and thats what they are upset about.
Draft beer is very cheap for the bar even at $8 a pitcher ( probably costs the bar $2.50 ) that is $64 on top of $60 is $124 thats approx 25 people in the door and sounds like they had more than that.
Burning a bridge isn't a bad thing if its a bridge you're better off not crossing. ( I'm sure I burned one just by commenting )
Both Clubs/Bars and Bands need to show each other respect, It needs to be a 2 way street.
Sounds to me like they didn't get the door and thats what they are upset about.
Draft beer is very cheap for the bar even at $8 a pitcher ( probably costs the bar $2.50 ) that is $64 on top of $60 is $124 thats approx 25 people in the door and sounds like they had more than that.
Burning a bridge isn't a bad thing if its a bridge you're better off not crossing. ( I'm sure I burned one just by commenting )
Both Clubs/Bars and Bands need to show each other respect, It needs to be a 2 way street.
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.
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Punkinhead
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Word.tonefight wrote:
Burning a bridge isn't a bad thing if its a bridge you're better off not crossing. ( I'm sure I burned one just by commenting )
Both Clubs/Bars and Bands need to show each other respect, It needs to be a 2 way street.
And if you burn a bridge by saying that then I am embarassed for our scene if it's come to the point where you can't say something meaningful because you might get someone's panties in a bunch.
If youth knew; if age could.
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Victor Synn
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I can understand Urbs' post. If it were us, we'd be highly upset as well. Thing is, you start an "Anit-City Limits" campaign and start throwing words around like you're going to tell many people not to come to City, then all you're doing is hurting other bands that do play there. Even if you tell 5 people not to come to the club, that's still a possible $25 that another band could have made. In that case, you run the risk of screwing the Hair Force Ones, Third Standards, Ins, and other bands out of money. How fair is that? If you don't want to set foot back in City again, nobody is going to hold a gun to your head and tell you you are. But telling others not to come there that may want to see some of the other bands there just isn't cool. Hopefully a little time will change your mind about that.
Hair Force One: We got your EN_ER_GY right here!
Visit: www.hf1rocks.com
Visit: www.hf1rocks.com
Thanks Rob! & everyone else... I think this post is getting out of control and away from what I had intended. I'm not always good at making a point but my intent was to make sure anyone else going there, was aware enough of what "deal" they get into.
Our arrangement from Claudio was The door, sound and draught beer. He said that he doesn't pay out of pocket.... which is cool and I respected this deal. Had he said, I can only pay you guys $50.... we would have still played there, just to get in the door... he didn't, he said we would get everything from the door.
Normally, we have our own door guy and only charge $3.00 a head or $5 for each couple. He didn't want us to use a door guy because "his guy will check everyone's ID". I was cool with that.
The point I was trying to make is that he went against what HE set up, not us, on short notice, that's it. He wasn't expecting a crowd, we drew a pretty good one, he made some good $$$$ off of their drinking habits, we encouraged people to drink, have fun and buy more... yes Rob, Urbs and I make it a point to leave a few bucks anytime we hit the bar.
It's not the money.... it's the deal HE set up and broke. We've played in bars where the owner says $100.00 up front, and it's cool because we wanted to get in the door. We've played in places for the door and walked out with $5 each, we've played in places that are actually smaller and not as well known for a lot more and they charge no cover...but never played in a place where we were told one thing and then not followed through on. I find it funny because a lot of folks at times have bitched about another "local" bar and the way they pay out.... but, you know what is going on up front, and it never changes, it is what it is..... that's not what happened here.
I do not know Claudio, personally, and want to apologize for any "personal" attacks I have made in the earlier posts. I'm sure he is a great person most of the time. A friend of mine that works for me has only ever said good things about him and was upset by what happened... she saw and heard it all the other night. I think he was a little taken back by the number of people that came in and thought that he better take advantage of the $$$, that's all.
I want to encourage everyone to play City Limits as I said in my 2nd post, just know what you're getting into upfront. The sound and stage are awesome, Scott is great! The guys at the bar are really cool!! I felt welcomed at the start, and through all the sets. We had a blast... it was freakin' great, until the end and that's when I felt taken advantage of.
Vic, the last thing we'd ever want is to take $$$ from anyone through a bad rap of a place you or anyone else does well at. So, I won't make it a point of telling anyone not to go there. I will continue to share our misfortune with any band out there that wants to play there simply to educate them on what could occur.
Hell, like you said, noone would be able to force us to play there again. You're right, and I may even consider playing there again..... right about the time monkey's spew forth from my ass.... What a show that would be!!
Seriously, peace to all of you.... I only wanted to share a bad situation so no one else got burned... That's it.................
Our arrangement from Claudio was The door, sound and draught beer. He said that he doesn't pay out of pocket.... which is cool and I respected this deal. Had he said, I can only pay you guys $50.... we would have still played there, just to get in the door... he didn't, he said we would get everything from the door.
Normally, we have our own door guy and only charge $3.00 a head or $5 for each couple. He didn't want us to use a door guy because "his guy will check everyone's ID". I was cool with that.
The point I was trying to make is that he went against what HE set up, not us, on short notice, that's it. He wasn't expecting a crowd, we drew a pretty good one, he made some good $$$$ off of their drinking habits, we encouraged people to drink, have fun and buy more... yes Rob, Urbs and I make it a point to leave a few bucks anytime we hit the bar.
It's not the money.... it's the deal HE set up and broke. We've played in bars where the owner says $100.00 up front, and it's cool because we wanted to get in the door. We've played in places for the door and walked out with $5 each, we've played in places that are actually smaller and not as well known for a lot more and they charge no cover...but never played in a place where we were told one thing and then not followed through on. I find it funny because a lot of folks at times have bitched about another "local" bar and the way they pay out.... but, you know what is going on up front, and it never changes, it is what it is..... that's not what happened here.
I do not know Claudio, personally, and want to apologize for any "personal" attacks I have made in the earlier posts. I'm sure he is a great person most of the time. A friend of mine that works for me has only ever said good things about him and was upset by what happened... she saw and heard it all the other night. I think he was a little taken back by the number of people that came in and thought that he better take advantage of the $$$, that's all.
I want to encourage everyone to play City Limits as I said in my 2nd post, just know what you're getting into upfront. The sound and stage are awesome, Scott is great! The guys at the bar are really cool!! I felt welcomed at the start, and through all the sets. We had a blast... it was freakin' great, until the end and that's when I felt taken advantage of.
Vic, the last thing we'd ever want is to take $$$ from anyone through a bad rap of a place you or anyone else does well at. So, I won't make it a point of telling anyone not to go there. I will continue to share our misfortune with any band out there that wants to play there simply to educate them on what could occur.
Hell, like you said, noone would be able to force us to play there again. You're right, and I may even consider playing there again..... right about the time monkey's spew forth from my ass.... What a show that would be!!
Seriously, peace to all of you.... I only wanted to share a bad situation so no one else got burned... That's it.................
If bands would stop playing for the door, these types of situations would not happen as often. If all the bands agree to a set price, no matter what it is, it benefits everyone, including the club owners. This way, the band knows what they are getting and the club owner knows what expense they are paying.
Plus, with the price of equipment, transportation, and gas alone and add to that our time and talent. We all need to make something to play.
Here are some of the problems with playing for a straight door deal.
1. There is a chance the club owner will not give you all the cash
2. The doorman or owner can let people in for free
3. I have heard about doormen being caught pocketing some cash
4. Some places make the band pay for the doorman, not the club
5. They start charging cover a half hour before the band starts and all the people who are there before that are in for free
6. They charge different amounts to different people
Putting your own person on the door is not always a solution either because the club owners set some of the rules, including how much you can charge, when you can start charging, and who you can charge, which can limit what you make.
They do not ask other people who provide services for the club to work for the door. They pay them a set fee.
Plus, with the price of equipment, transportation, and gas alone and add to that our time and talent. We all need to make something to play.
Here are some of the problems with playing for a straight door deal.
1. There is a chance the club owner will not give you all the cash
2. The doorman or owner can let people in for free
3. I have heard about doormen being caught pocketing some cash
4. Some places make the band pay for the doorman, not the club
5. They start charging cover a half hour before the band starts and all the people who are there before that are in for free
6. They charge different amounts to different people
Putting your own person on the door is not always a solution either because the club owners set some of the rules, including how much you can charge, when you can start charging, and who you can charge, which can limit what you make.
They do not ask other people who provide services for the club to work for the door. They pay them a set fee.
c
Everybody in every band gets screwed out of money. I'm sure this is not your first experience and it surley won't be your last. I've just come to accept getting screwed. I actually expect it every show. I've tried arguing with owners, making threats, you name it. The band never wins if the owner feels like putting the screws to them. We have never had a problem with city limits but we don't play there anymore. Just never really had luck in altoona.
Maybe you guys were handed the wrong wad of money. Did you flat out say to him, "Man, this doesn't add up?". Have you guys confronted Claudio about the problem? If you guys think that you got screwed hard listen to this story about Lost Ledny and a little ol place called BOOMERANG'S in Indiana. Lost Ledny was the biggest draw for this place, and on this night it was actually the biggest crowd to date that Ledny pulled...roughly 450 people payed the door charge...$3.00...along with the 50 or so people there during our arrival (who don't have to pay). The band gets ALL of the door. That has been the deal for the past 2 years. Well there had been some changes on the management staff and some relocating to the new Pittsburgh bar. Anyway, the guy I would deal with left for the Pittsburgh bar, so the owner was in charge that night...by the way who is the biggest ASSHOLE bar owner anyone will ever meet. Needless to say at the end of the night we get handed $400. Let me back up...we brought in the Jager girls and a Jager band from Pittsburgh (Mushcup). We had a deal to pay the openers. After getting the $400 we couldn't stick to the deal and pay the opener the amount we would have liked to pay them. So BOOMERANG'S still owes us about $900...lawyers have been contacted and papers are being worked on over this "fucking"! The owner jumped ship that night so we couldn't confront him. He actually had the nerve to give our money to some lonely bar worker and made that kid listen to our bitching that night. Then I call the new MEATHEAD manager and discuss this problem with him. His explaination...we paid you guy for the time you played. I asked what that meant...since we only did an 1 1/2 hour set that is all the paid us for. I explained that we provided the whole night of entertainment...opening band, jager girls, etc. His reponse...we booked Lost Ledny not some opening band. FUCK YOU meathead...we've had opening band there oodles of times before and never once had a problem with doing so. I also sent an email to the owener explaing that we had booked the Jager girls for the night and that we also had another Jager band coming in from Pittsburgh...THE NIGHT WAS ADVERTISED AS A JAGER NIGHT. I also contacted him via cell phone where I left a message also explaing the deal. Since the guy I usually dealt with was no longer there, we were used for boo-koo door, clear, able to hide from the books door money.
Boomerang's ran an ad in the IUP news paper with a Coor Light bottle over the name Lost Ledny and the picture of the band. I called Boomerang's and said, in a nice manner, "We're a Jager band...not a Coors Light band...pull the ad and remove the Coor Light bottle is there is still time. Also, the didn't put in the ad anything about the Jager girls. So I asked to have that put somewhere in the ad...it's only going to help there business...dumbasses. Plus, the know that we're a Jager band, so why put a bottle of Coors Light just because that is your 10-12 special. Run Jager specials. When it was all said and done, the ad was pulled, put together nicely with Jager everywhere through the add, and Boomerang's gets attitude with me like it was soooo hard to make the changes. It was like pulling teeth to get those asshole to fix a problem that they originally created. They had roughly a month and a half notice about what would be going on. Like I said...they manager who booked our show was no longer at the Indiana branch and this was their opportunity to put the knife in our backs.
Oh yeah...we sold nearly 10 bottles of Jager that night at 30 shots per bottle(yeah, they milk the bottle)...Jager told me that each bottle is to be 25 shots. Boomerang's is milking for more money and giving the customer less liquor. Anyway...that's 300 shots total at $3.50 a shot and $6.00 a Jager Bomb...you do the math...over a GRAND on just Jager that night.
So, if you think City Limits screwed you really bad...read this over and over again. Granted you got screwed, but that was peanuts compared to what Boomerang's will do to bands.
Boomerang's ran an ad in the IUP news paper with a Coor Light bottle over the name Lost Ledny and the picture of the band. I called Boomerang's and said, in a nice manner, "We're a Jager band...not a Coors Light band...pull the ad and remove the Coor Light bottle is there is still time. Also, the didn't put in the ad anything about the Jager girls. So I asked to have that put somewhere in the ad...it's only going to help there business...dumbasses. Plus, the know that we're a Jager band, so why put a bottle of Coors Light just because that is your 10-12 special. Run Jager specials. When it was all said and done, the ad was pulled, put together nicely with Jager everywhere through the add, and Boomerang's gets attitude with me like it was soooo hard to make the changes. It was like pulling teeth to get those asshole to fix a problem that they originally created. They had roughly a month and a half notice about what would be going on. Like I said...they manager who booked our show was no longer at the Indiana branch and this was their opportunity to put the knife in our backs.
Oh yeah...we sold nearly 10 bottles of Jager that night at 30 shots per bottle(yeah, they milk the bottle)...Jager told me that each bottle is to be 25 shots. Boomerang's is milking for more money and giving the customer less liquor. Anyway...that's 300 shots total at $3.50 a shot and $6.00 a Jager Bomb...you do the math...over a GRAND on just Jager that night.
So, if you think City Limits screwed you really bad...read this over and over again. Granted you got screwed, but that was peanuts compared to what Boomerang's will do to bands.
The Louder We All Play, The Harder It Is To Stay Unnoticed.
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www.solegion.com
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www.solegion.com
Damn Jaybird.... that's harsh! Reminds me of Rob's experience at the Club Car.... that was another place we got screwed up front and then settled later. Yeah we tried to talk to him about it that night.... several patrons expressed their views too, but hey, live and learn.
Rob.... you bring up Davey's a lot. His honesty and openness with bands is what we need everywhere. We've played out there quite a few times, always for a set price before hand, drinks included, and bottles.... whether it was chairs or 100 people he always keeps his side of the deal... now that's cool!
Rob.... you bring up Davey's a lot. His honesty and openness with bands is what we need everywhere. We've played out there quite a few times, always for a set price before hand, drinks included, and bottles.... whether it was chairs or 100 people he always keeps his side of the deal... now that's cool!