Vai or Satch, Did the student surpass the teacher?

Possessed · Post by **Possessed** » Monday Aug 30, 2004

This is a subject of great debate between many of my friends. We have argued for hours about this.
My vote is for Vai. Although I love Satch, Vai has just gone to the outer limits of guitar playing , composition and innovation.

Daxman · Post by **Daxman** » Tuesday Sep 07, 2004

No doubt that Vai is an incredible guitar player...His technical ability is the best bar none, but...With that said and the fact that I do like Vai, my vote was for Satch...He has almost the same ability, but uses it with taste and reserve...The man simply has more soul than Vai, more feelings and emotion...This is not a knock on Vai at all...Here's something that sums it up for me...Remember that interview with SRV when he was talking about playing with B.B.King for the first time?...He said "I went out there and played as many notes as I could trying to impress him and the fans, with little effect...B.B goes out there, plays one note and the place goes nuts!"...Satch can do the same thing...He's the man.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Tuesday Sep 07, 2004

Why compare they are both well worth the time to listen and you will get something from each.

Actually I hate when anyone compares or says " the best" its only a matter of judgment and can never be determined.

Enjoy it all

MOONDOGGY · Post by **MOONDOGGY** » Wednesday Sep 08, 2004

My vote goes to Petrucci or Mcalpine!

MOONDOGGY · Post by **MOONDOGGY** » Wednesday Sep 08, 2004

While on the topic of who likes who better- What about Sheehan or Hamm?

Possessed · Post by **Possessed** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

Petrucci is one wicked axe slinger. Everytime I see him he gets better, faster, and more creative. And MacAlpine is currently in Vai's band and they are wicked together. Tony plays all the keys and trades solos and harmonies with Vai. And as far as emotion Vai's music has made me well up with tears on numerous occasions. He definitely can pull the feeling and emotion out of that guitar.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

I've got to say that Vai has surpassed Satch in technique but not overrall knowledge and Satch has the superior ability to write a good song. Petrucci's technique is beyond both though...that dude is just amazing....

My preference in shredders lies in Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker, and Yngwie(in small doses) though....

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

MOONDOGGY wrote:While on the topic of who likes who better- What about Sheehan or Hamm?

Sheehan. He only needs 4 strings to do what most bass players need 6 or 8 to do. Stu Hamm is a badass, though!

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Saturday Sep 11, 2004

I forgot to mention Vinnie Moore....

Billy Sheehan, after seeing him with Vai...Wow....

Possessed · Post by **Possessed** » Thursday Sep 16, 2004

I've got to say that Vai has surpassed Satch in technique but not overrall knowledge

I'd have to disagree on that. Check out some of Vai's lessons on vai.com
I believe the link is under little black dots There are some serious mind benders there. I have done a lot of reading on Satch's lessons and they are not quite as insanely difficult. I do agree that Satch does have the ablilty to write a great song but lately he seems to be rehashing the same thing. I used to love everything from him and still love most of it, but I haven't heard as many songs on his later records that grab me the way his old stuff did. And again Petrucci and Vai just keep getting better and more innovative all the time.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Thursday Sep 16, 2004

I definitely agree that Vai and Petrucci's technique are beyond Satch. But in the lessons, I don't know...I've done from both and always like Satch's better....Just an opinion....the lesssons who I've thought were best were Petrucci's anyways. He shows some killer shit...

Post by **Ron** » Monday Dec 27, 2004

One thing I've noticed about their live playing is that Satch plays everything exactly like his recordings. Every harmonic, grace note and nuance is there.
I've never seen another live player do that, including Yngwie, Vai, and Petrucci.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Wednesday Apr 06, 2005

That is true about Satch. I've seen Vai miss some stuff (even on the G3 vids) and Yngwie improvises every solo. Petrucci, like Vai, is pretty right on every time but, hasn't done everything live like Satch does.

esa · Post by **esa** » Thursday Apr 07, 2005

This is the point in time where I get yelled at..
Vai or Satch: Did the student surpass the teacher?
Who are they?

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday Apr 09, 2005

esa wrote:This is the point in time where I get yelled at..
Vai or Satch: Did the student surpass the teacher?
Who are they?

Both are technical shredders. Satch is probaly one of the most prestiged guitar instructors ever. His list of alumnus includes Steve Vai, Kirk Hammet (Metallica), Larry LaLonde (Primus), Kevin Cadogan (Third Eye Blind), and David Bryson (Counting Crows). I think that Charlie Hunter also studied under him, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Steve Vai's had numerous solo albums, but his closest work in the mainstream was probaly when he was in White Snake during the later part of their career (on the Slip of the Tongue album I believe?).

And while we're on the subject: What do you guys think of Buckethead? I think he's amazing. But what the hell was he doing in Guns n' Roses a few years back?

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Saturday Apr 09, 2005

Buckethead is really good. He probably got paid big bucks to play for them. Hell I'd do it, it's Axl Rose.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Monday May 02, 2005

bassist_25 wrote:
esa wrote:This is the point in time where I get yelled at..
Vai or Satch: Did the student surpass the teacher?
Who are they?

Steve Vai's had numerous solo albums, but his closest work in the mainstream was probaly when he was in White Snake during the later part of their career (on the Slip of the Tongue album I believe?).

Also, "Satch" is Joe Satriani. He had a mainstream instrumental hit with "Summer Song" a few years back. Great tune!

And Paul, actually Vai's mainstream work also included (IMHO) being in the best "pound for pound" band of the last 25 years, David Lee Roth. Yes, I said it. Don't laugh. The lineup for 2 albums ("Eat 'Em And Smile" and "Skyscraper") was as follows:

DLR: Vocals, inane ramblings, cocaine.
Steve Vai: Guitars
Billy Sheehan: Bass
Gregg Bissonette: Drums

Nobody has put together a group like that since. Unless you could Dream Theater, of course.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Monday May 02, 2005

I saw David Lee Roth and Steve Vai on the "Eat Em and Smile" Tour - WOW - He was absolutely amazing. We had awesome seats on the side the Steve was playing on - hell, we were so close when he flipped his hair we were getting drops of his sweat!!

f.sciarrillo · Post by **f.sciarrillo** » Wednesday May 04, 2005

Satch is much better than Vai in my opinion, just for the simple fact that Satch is himself and Tries to be real, not to mention I love his melodic tone, I could listen to it for hours ...

I think Satch is more down to earth as far as his style goes, Vai seems to put to many complicated things in his music. Not saying Vai isn't any good, he is amazing. I just think satch's style is more enjoyable and easier to listen to ..

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Friday Oct 27, 2006

Ah, they both suck.

Kidding. Technically, they both can do some cool stuff but I think Satch is more musical and
has a better mastery of ho to make SONGS out of several styles and incorporate them well.
"Not of this Earth" had some cool jazz stuff that worked for his songs. Vai's "Flexible" albums were GREAT and I liked his playing up to, and including "Skyscraper". Ya, I liked it.
Listen to it with headphones. Some cool stuff. He did some great production on there.

I don't think I've heard a thing from either of them since Vai's "Passion and Whatever" album
which was a boring, toneless, wank-fest in my opinion, so I guess I'm really back-dated on
the discussion. I'd like to hear Satch get back together with "The Squares" and Vai do a
full album with P.I.L.

Good playing in a good song is where it's at and a good song trumps all.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Oct 27, 2006

I think another shredder who doesn't get the credit that he deserves is Nuno Bittencourt. I've loved his work in all of the Extreme albums. Nuno has chops, be he's still a very musical player, IMHO. His tone is second to none too.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Friday Oct 27, 2006

Ya know, I was iffy on Extreme. Still am, though they had some tunes I really liked.

His new band, Drama Gods is pretty cool though. He handles most, if not all, of the vocals.

I'd also agree that he had a good tone.

evh5150 · Post by **evh5150** » Friday Jun 15, 2007

Eat em n smile made me realize that via was better then satch I hated him in whitesnake and yngwie smoked both them in g3 Billy and sarzo rule on bass!!!!!!!!
vai is good but even the karate kid kicked his ass !!!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday Jun 16, 2007

A sound engineer that we work with went and saw G3 a few months ago with Satch, Paul Gilbert, and John Petrucci. He said that he probably enjoyed Satch the most and was very impressed with Gilbert. He seemed to enjoy Petrucci the least, and he's a HUGE Dream Theater fan. A music theory instructor that I once had said that he was never impressed with Petrucci, because he thought that Petrucci never really found a musical voice of his own. He said that he seemed to just be a hodgepodge of other shred heros. Of course, I was all like "That's sacreligious, man!" But I went home, popped in Awake, and you know what? He was right! One minute Petrucci sounded like Satch and the next he was doing some neoclassical shred thing that sounded like it was picked right off of Rising Force. You can't deny Petrucci's chops though, and I still think that he's one badass mofo, no matter if his style's completely original or not. Under a Glass Moon is still my favorite guitar solo of all time.

It's very cool to see Gilbert getting recognition though. He obviously has amazing chops, but he also has great note selection and musicality. I love guys like him who can make their rythmn playing sound big and full without 800 overdub tracks.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Jun 18, 2007

bassist_25 wrote:A sound engineer that we work with went and saw G3 a few months ago with Satch, Paul Gilbert, and John Petrucci. He said that he probably enjoyed Satch the most and was very impressed with Gilbert. He seemed to enjoy Petrucci the least, and he's a HUGE Dream Theater fan. A music theory instructor that I once had said that he was never impressed with Petrucci, because he thought that Petrucci never really found a musical voice of his own.

That was a fun show. Petrucci's introverted stage presence made him seem flat in comparison to Gilbert and Satch, who are both great showmen. But he's got a great touch and plays some amazing melodies.

This is a weird comment, but I thought Gilbert was a bit too much of a team player. Much of his set was tight ensemble playing, vocal tunes, and Bruce Bouillet fret-melting. The only time Gilbert really stepped out of the fray was to play the "To Be With You" solo as a gag.

But back on topic, I love Vai like crazy but Satch is the more focused artist. (BTW for a great Vai outing, find Alcatrazz's Disturbing the Peace. His playing is every bit as good as the DLR stuff, but without half a record's worth of Dave's vaudeville schtickery.)