guitar tone 101 with Mel from HF1

[lynch1]

Well I just spent 2 1/2 hours with Mel from HF1 working on my guitar tone.
Holy Shit!!! When I was coming up with my guitar tone, I was trying to emulate what I heard on CDs. Honestly, I thought "wow, that is pretty spot on." But using that tone in my band situation, a lot people in the crowd were saying they could see me playing, but couldn't really hear me. I have full faith in our sound guy, so I figured it was my tone and EQs. I have a Marshall MA50 all tube head and a BOSS ME-25 multi-effects processor. I don't really care for the Marshall distortion, it sounds thin and fuzzy to me, but everyone who heard it said "that sounds like a Marshall". I turned up my nose like someone just passed gas. So I got in touch with Mel and set it up where he could come over and check out what I have and what I might be doing wrong.

He brought over a bunch of different distortions, some EQS, and delays. Now, I have always run thru my clean channel. Mel came in listened to what I had and said I had a pretty good start, but hearing my tone kinda understood why I wasn't coming out in the mix. He turned on my OD channel, made some EQ adjustments....still sounded like a Marshall. Tried some different OD pedals and things. Had to come to the resolve that what I think is a good tone by myself may not sound good when you put everyone else in. Honestly when I listen to it, it doesnt sound like that amazing, shredding guitar tone and I'm like, really Mel, you sure this is right, but when you put it in the mix, it is spot on.

So basically it comes down to this, you may hate what your hearing, but in a band situation with everyone else playing, it may be awesome. Some proof as to what I'm saying-----go to plankspanker.com. It has isolated guitar tracks for different songs. I knew what these songs and what the guitars sounded like on the CD, but with the guitar by itself, Mel is dead on with the tone. It was a real eye opener for me.

Thanks Mel for your time and information. Can't wait to get the band back up and running to try out this new tone.

[The Shadow]

Glad to be of service.

[JackANSI]

I have to constantly redefine what it is I'm hearing sometimes too. I can never trust my ears with my tone when there is no "context" available.

Just be sure to document your knobs' positions somehow (notebook, picture, etc). The only amp I know will be set the way I left it has all digital controls. Every time I move my larger combos I always seem to bump a knob.

[onegunguitar]

Mids are your friend......scooped mids get lost in the band mix in a hurry. Push the mids and you'll be heard

[bassist_25]

Many people don't realize that an electric guitar's frequency response is relatively narrow compared to a bass guitar or an acoustic guitar. That's why acoustic guitars usually sound great DIed straight to a PA but sound kinda meh through a dedicated electric guitar amp. They have harmonic information around 10k that requires a horn or tweeter to accurately reproduce whereas electric guitars roll-off much earlier in their frequency response. My point is that people often EQ an electric guitar with the assumption that it has a very wide frequency response when the truth is that it occupies a very specific area of the mid-range in any given mix. A lot of people assume that the massive wall of Rectifier they hear on an album is the result of extreme EQing to make the guitar sound big, and what you end up with are a lot of cats in the local clubs with flubby, resonant low-end, shrill high-end, a scooped mid-range, and an overall guitar sound that disappears once the rhythm section kicks in.

Another mistake that I see many people make is that they attempt to get all of their crunch from the front-end rather than the back-end of an amp. I don't intend to spark up the tubes versus solid-state debate again, but each technology sort of necessitates an opposite philosophy to gain structuring. With a solid-state device, you want to set the input level to just below the threshold of clipping. Then you bring up the master volume to the desired level. With a tube amp, you want to first turn up the master volume as high as you can until the stage volume or noise floor is too much. Then you set gain. The reason to do this is because as you push the master volume, the amp will really start to open up in the mids and highs, taking on a sheen that will give the guitar presence in the mix. If you try to push the gain hard without turning up the master, you often get a super compressed sound without a lot of note distinction.

[lynch1]

Yeah, even the tone is not super saturated and seems thin to me in the context of the band and coming thru in the mix it is gonna be exactly what I'm looking to accomplish. Even though I may not like what I'm hearing, when you put the other instruments in there and put it thru the PA it's gonna come out differently. Like I said the real wake up came when I listened to those isolated guitar tracks.

[bassist_25]

It's going to sound a little more thin right in front of your cabinet, because while the mids and highs beam, the lows have a tendency to disperse everywhere. So you're not really getting an accurate three-dimensional experience of what your amp actually sounds like. That experience is intensified when playing outside (and is why you generally need a PA that can push a decent amount of air when doing outside gigs).

[JackANSI]

There really isn't anything wrong with scooping the mids a little sometimes. "Tone" isn't a constant, it is a moving target. Sometimes the "sound" of a band requires shaping the "tone" of each instrument in certain ways. (really hard with two of the same instrument)

Jaco Pastorius' exaggerated, uber-mids would not work on all material just as Fieldy's scooped out tone wouldn't work on all material. (I hate using two of my least favorite bassists as examples, but they fit pretty good in their respective material)

[lynch1]

I would love to hear samples of other local guitar players tones....not your bedroom/ basement tone, but what your tone sounds like when your setting up for a live show.

[The Shadow]

I would love to hear samples of other local guitar players tones....not your bedroom/ basement tone, but what your tone sounds like when your setting up for a live show.

Here's my SLO. All of the knobs are in the same place that they've been since I first played it and tweaked them. Cab and speakers are identical to the one that I use live. This is the guitar straight into the amp. No OD, reverb, or delay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNflESDq1v4

[The Shadow]

Here's my modded Plexi. This was recoded about 6 years ago on some very low budget recording gear. Done in one take. Rhythm guitar was doubled but not double tracked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfp-86nBpIk


It turned out darker sounding than it was in the room. Could have been the junk equipment, mic placement, choice of mic, etc....

[The Shadow]

And a little GNR for good measure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op_lj9I9PDE

Again, one take but the rhythm guitar wasn't doubled.

[StumbleFingers]

I would love to hear samples of other local guitar players tones....not your bedroom/ basement tone, but what your tone sounds like when your setting up for a live show.

Most guitarists wouldn't mind at all if you hung around to talk gear during setup and sound check.

It's a good idea to talk with the sound crew, too. If you're checking out another band, ask what they're doing to translate the guitar sound on stage to the front of house. What are they doing with the EQ, if anything? Are they adding any effects? If your band always uses the same sound guy, keep up an ongoing dialogue about your sound. If they know what kind of tone you're trying to achieve, it could make their job easier and your ears happier.

[lynch1]

this is my first tube amp so I thought your tone was consistent with volume. Well, found out, the louder you push the amp the better the tone if you have it set right. I found that "sweet spot" on the volume, as Mel calls it. Mine is at 7, started at 2, then to 3, then 5, 6, and then at 7 BAM there is was, fullness came out and the thin fuzziness was gone, perfect 80's tone to get me through the mix.

[whitedevilone]

Great that you're getting it together Scott!Now lets jam!!

[lynch1]

that's right!!