be a team player....

[carvinplayer]

Not sure just how to approach this, and I think we are all adults here ( I hope so)...so I'll just put it out there...

Last night at Pellegrines Lounge in Altoona , they put on a fantastic Benefit show. There were many different groups there sharing the stage and everything was going well. When you have multiple band shows like this there are going to be small little "burps" to deal with and if everyone is on board and a team player, then it all gets worked out.....well... the next to last band was to perform at 1145 PM and the previous band was a little long, and the band before them was a little long...yadda yadda...so it pushed everything back just a tad, not much, and everyone was cool with it and waited patiently to do their thing...but then there were a few technical sound glitches, which these things do happen....and then there was the raffle ticket winner announcements that pushed everything back by about 15 minutes or so. Now the bands were to perform an approx. 30-45 min set, then move on to get the next guy up to set up and play his set, so forth and so on...the last band scheduled was to go on at 1245 PM. Once the next to last band got going, given the time allotment and glitches, had they stuck to the next band going on at 1245, they would have only gotten to play about 15 or 20 minutes at best... the last band decided to walk out because everything was running a bit behind...again these things happen at shows such as this....I don't know who these guys were, don't want to know. What I want to say here is ...you guys need to grow up a bit and work with the program, give a little and adapt. You would have gotten to play your full set despite the delays...walking out just made you look really bad and poor sports, and immature, and your chances of ever coming back to Pellys just went out the door. The band that was on was told to keep playing and fill your slot and they rocked the house and everyone had a great time...without you guys......Take a lesson from this, grow up a bit and get with the program if you plan to participate in shows such as this one......

[bassist_25]

I wasn't there, so I can only give my thoughts through experience. I think there are two issues here. First, when you sign up to do one of these things, the professionalism that comes with a regular gig should generalize to a benefit gig. Those gigs are not the time to act like a primadonna. For instance, I'd like to have a rig on stage, but if that's not feasible, hand me the Radial JDI and let's get to work. I don't need a twenty minute monitor check. I've also never canceled a benefit gig because a paying gig popped up.

Now the other side of the coin is if the show got that much off track, it's a failure on the part of the organizer. That's why you should have a stage manager keeping bands on a tight schedule. Bands also need to do their part and get on stage, get tuned, and be ready for the first down beat in 10 minutes TOPS (as an aside, as much as I love Aldo's/McGarvey's, most bands I've been in can set up and play almost an entire set in the amount of time it takes some change overs there - downtime is a killer. You're not setting up Bradshaw systems and 15 piece drum kits here, people). Frankly, I've played benefits/multi-band gigs where things have gotten very off schedule, and it's incredibly annoying and disrespectful to the performers who have dedicated their time. Years ago, I played End of Summer Jam in Cresson and something similar happened to my band - we waited around all day, the show fell like two and a half hours behind, then our set got cut after about 5 songs. EOSJ was a yearly event, but we never played that gig again after that. I hate when people waste my time, and that band's time was wasted last night. I'm not saying that excuses walking out, but it's not a black and white situation either.

Just my $.02.

[The Shadow]

Like Paul, I wasn't there, but I will agree with everything that he said. I've been involved in benefits and they are always a cluster $@#¥.

A point that Paul didn't make is that more often than not, bands decide to do benefits with the sole purpose of benefitting themselves, in the way of exposure and future gigs. I'm not casting a huge net over everyone, including the people that genuinely care about the cause, whatever it may be at the time, but we'd be naive to think that it doesn't happen.

When the smoke clears, some good people got together to help someone in need after a tragic loss. That's all that should matter. I highly doubt that the act that decided to bail had any outcome on the revenue generated.

[bassist_25]

A point that Paul didn't make is that more often than not, bands decide to do benefits with the sole purpose of benefitting themselves, in the way of exposure and future gigs. I'm not casting a huge net over everyone, including the people that genuinely care about the cause, whatever it may be at the time, but we'd be naive to think that it doesn't happen.

Tru dat, Mel. Against all conventional wisdom and ego-fluffing, going on last at a benefit is usually not the best spot on the bill. Mismatched line-ups can also be frustrating. There's nothing worse than the Scandinavian black metal band clearing the room with its set right before your Andy Williams tribute act gets up on stage.

[The Shadow]

Your example, albeit funny as hell, was a little extreme.

[Pedro Mota]

The best Publicity ever is the one that goes from people watching a band's performance...

Sadly yes,many bands Play for charity and what Not,but their true intentions are hidden,They are actually doing it for their own publicity,Not to mention under the pretext of a Fake Humility.

[bsaller]

Playing a benefit in Altoona for self promotion....you gotta be kidding. That's like trying to sell Gorton's fish packs on the Outer Banks!!!

[rc3]

and your chances of ever coming back to Pellys just went out the door.

I am not sure that this is such a bad deal either.. Pelly's is a hole. One reason that they love to do benefits is because they don't have to pay anyone, especially the bands.

I would love to know how many bands they owe money to over the years. I know I won't play there again.

[bsaller]

and your chances of ever coming back to Pellys just went out the door.

I am not sure that this is such a bad deal either.. Pelly's is a hole. One reason that they love to do benefits is because they don't have to pay anyone, especially the bands.

I would love to know how many bands they owe money to over the years. I know I won't play there again.

Amen!!!

[Skate Toad]

Where's the "LIKE" button on this thing?

[Jasaoke]

I'm curious as to why they decided to walk.
OK, it's clearly prima dona-ish to get insulted over a time slot at a benefit. I don't know who they were, but I'm certain they didn't have anyplace better to be. So they loaded the truck, drove to the gig, stayed out late enough to kill their chances of having a good time anywhere else, then left and uloaded the truck without ever getting they're rocks off.

I'm assuming that they agreed to play for free, so I suppose they didn't lose any money by leaving...

And what kind of chump thinks that anything in the music business happens with punctuality? Really, when was the last time that you started playing on time at a paying gig, let alone a freebie.

"Alright everybody, we're going to take a short break and be back whenever we feel like it"

[carvinplayer]

I'm curious as to why they decided to walk.
OK, it's clearly prima dona-ish to get insulted over a time slot at a benefit. I don't know who they were, but I'm certain they didn't have anyplace better to be. So they loaded the truck, drove to the gig, stayed out late enough to kill their chances of having a good time anywhere else, then left and uloaded the truck without ever getting they're rocks off.

I'm assuming that they agreed to play for free, so I suppose they didn't lose any money by leaving...

And what kind of chump thinks that anything in the music business happens with punctuality? Really, when was the last time that you started playing on time at a paying gig, let alone a freebie."

That was the point I was attempting to make...be a team player and roll with the changes, relax and have some fun.... walking out was just immature and arrogant and stupid......

[StumbleFingers]

That was the point I was attempting to make...be a team player and roll with the changes, relax and have some fun.... walking out was just immature and arrogant and stupid......

It sounds like they didn't handle it well and it clearly upset you. But trashing your fellow musicians in a public forum and being juuuuust specific enough that we know who you're talking about... also not so cool, bro. This thread is icky, to use the scientific term.

So, benefits. You know what I would totally respect? If a band said, "This benefit is running way behind schedule so we're going to give up our slot so the other bands have more time. And we're still going to hang out and buy 50/50 tickets and drink beer and help people load in and just have fun."

There are bands around here that would totally do that. There are probably as many or more who would demand a better time slot, play 20 minutes over, take their sweet time tearing down, and generally try to make the world revolve around them. Because we're performers and that's how we roll I guess.

[old Skool]

I'm with Greg on this and icky is a good way to put it. Shouldn't judge without knowing all the details from all involved. And I wouldn't necessarily consider it prima-donish to be upset over a time slot, etc. I've played benefits in the past where I had work or other obligations that limited the time I could be available. Simply nothing more than that. The organizer of the benefit should keep things on track time wise. Yes unforeseen things come up at times but adjust time slots accordingly and keep it moving. Bands should set up as quick as possible, keep within their time slot and get off stage as quick as possible. Pretty simple. Heck yes!

[Hawk]

Playing for Benefits:
I'd do one anytime and anywhere for anyone who needs it.
I do respect those who won't because they won't get paid.
Not doing it for the ego thing. Just to help.

The people having the benefit NEED to realize that band members are donating their valuable time which is equivalent to about $100 per man!!! And thank each band and each band member accordingly!

The People need to realize that the PA system and the people running the PA are as valuable as the musicians. They need to understand the usual cost for renting a PA (you guys know) and thank the PA people accordingly!!!!!

Running a benefit:
I've been involved with a few.
You need a stage Nazi (like the soup Nazi on Seinfeld). I did one with 10 bands and we only went 15 minutes later than we planned by the end.

You need prepared audio with planning. You need backline, drums and bass rig. Guitar players like to use their own amp. Everything needs set up very early and ready to go at least 1/2 hour before the first band. First band gets a sound check. The rest of the bands engineered on the fly. You need a guy who knows the PA and is prepared to run it.

Bands at a benefit:
Expect the unexpected. Find out how the person in charge has handled other benefits. If they run haphazardly, expect the same or don't get involved. If they traditionally run well and are well organized, cool, but expect the unexpected anyhow.

The issue at hand:
If I were in the last band I might have said we'll just sit out and let the band before us hold the stage.

Pelleys? Try renting a hall and see how much that adds to the cost. Sure they make money with benefits. Do you know of any hall that doesn't? They open their venue for free (no rental fees), provide good food and drinks are available.

Bands, if you don't draw a crowd, do you expect to be paid in full?

[floodcitybrass]

I'm not going to take sides because I only heard one side of the story.

I'm gonna have to agree with most of what Hawk said.

For any multi band show (benefit or not), there must be careful planning and you need to stick a schedule. I find it very frustrating when your timeslot is cut short by poor planning.

- Stage nazi yes, I mean you tell the bands that they are done BEFORE their time slot ends. Someone ultimately has to be the one in charge of killing the PA system if they go over their slot. Lay down the law and let people know there is a schedule and you will be cut off. It irritates me when one band thinks the "have" the crowd and they need to play longer.

-- The stage nazis should give a set amount of time to get on and off the stage. say 15 min on and 15 min off.

- When you are done playing, get your shit the f*** off the stage asap. Don't BS with anyone before you cleared the stage. When you are done playing, don't talk to the girls, don't sell cds and tshirts. Put your instrument IN THE CASE and get your shit off the stage.

- When you are done getting off the stage, help the next band get on the stage.

- Allocate realistic times. You can't have a band end at 5:00PM and then next band start at 5:00 PM. For small bands, 1/2 hour should suffice if they follow the above items I pointed out.

- Plan raffles, speeches, basket drawings, etc. accordingly. (between bands, not in the middle of a set).

-Bands - plan on ending a few minutes BEFORE your timeslot. Don't go over your slot, even by one minute.

- When you are waiting to take the stage, out of respect for the other bands: don't go on the stage, don't put stuff on the stage, don't distract the band playing, and don't distract the audience from watching them play.

- Keep your gear simple. Don't bring the 7 marshall stacks and the 37 piece rack cage double bass drum set complete with gong and lava lamp. If you bring too much shit, plan on quitting early so you have time to get it off.

- Don't get a crappy sound guy. Sound guys: don't suck. Plan accordingly and get stage plots and monitor mixes for each band.

-Sound guys, for heaven's sake, do not sound check the kick drum for 10 minutes for every band.

-Bands: don't be super picky about the monitor mixes. Just accept something reasonable given the circumstances and don't expect it to sound like your living room stereo.

- If the schedule slips, start taking 5 minutes off of each band. Don't penalize the last band give the last band a 12 minute long set.

[JeffLeeper]

ah the voice of experience...Love your replies and agree wholeheartedly.

I've also been in the field for many years...ugh...MANY years... and have done a ton of benefits.
Being unselfish covers the bases.
Unselfish: The reason you're doing a benefit.
Unselfish: Putting your egos in your back pockets and respecting each others' time accordingly.

[Pizon]

I know it's not always possible, but the best charity gigs we ever did as far
as time wise was when they had room enough that while one band was playing, the next band would be setting up across or on the other side of the room and be ready to go when the 1st band finished. We never had a problem with noise from the tearing down or setting up of the other bands. As for charities, we limited how many we'd do a year and what the causes were for.

[bassist_25]

I'm not going to take sides because I only heard one side of the story.

I'm gonna have to agree with most of what Hawk said.

For any multi band show (benefit or not), there must be careful planning and you need to stick a schedule. I find it very frustrating when your timeslot is cut short by poor planning.

- Stage nazi yes, I mean you tell the bands that they are done BEFORE their time slot ends. Someone ultimately has to be the one in charge of killing the PA system if they go over their slot. Lay down the law and let people know there is a schedule and you will be cut off. It irritates me when one band thinks the "have" the crowd and they need to play longer.

-- The stage nazis should give a set amount of time to get on and off the stage. say 15 min on and 15 min off.

- When you are done playing, get your shit the f*** off the stage asap. Don't BS with anyone before you cleared the stage. When you are done playing, don't talk to the girls, don't sell cds and tshirts. Put your instrument IN THE CASE and get your shit off the stage.

- When you are done getting off the stage, help the next band get on the stage.

- Allocate realistic times. You can't have a band end at 5:00PM and then next band start at 5:00 PM. For small bands, 1/2 hour should suffice if they follow the above items I pointed out.

- Plan raffles, speeches, basket drawings, etc. accordingly. (between bands, not in the middle of a set).

-Bands - plan on ending a few minutes BEFORE your timeslot. Don't go over your slot, even by one minute.

- When you are waiting to take the stage, out of respect for the other bands: don't go on the stage, don't put stuff on the stage, don't distract the band playing, and don't distract the audience from watching them play.

- Keep your gear simple. Don't bring the 7 marshall stacks and the 37 piece rack cage double bass drum set complete with gong and lava lamp. If you bring too much shit, plan on quitting early so you have time to get it off.

- Don't get a crappy sound guy. Sound guys: don't suck. Plan accordingly and get stage plots and monitor mixes for each band.

-Sound guys, for heaven's sake, do not sound check the kick drum for 10 minutes for every band.

-Bands: don't be super picky about the monitor mixes. Just accept something reasonable given the circumstances and don't expect it to sound like your living room stereo.

- If the schedule slips, start taking 5 minutes off of each band. Don't penalize the last band give the last band a 12 minute long set.

THIS!

Well, except the part about the lava lamp...without a lava lamp on stage, we might as well all be playing through giant cardboard boxes with speaker grills drawn on with magic marker.

[StumbleFingers]

floodcitybrass, are you available to organize benefits?

[VENTGtr]

All true, especially Paul's take on Lava Lamps!

Have organized/run a few and been really lucky, for the most part, that those involved were great about being ready, setting up/tearing down, having a good plan on what they were playing, etc. One exception was a guitar player for the first band at an event showing up way late after stopping to eat somewhere on the way, 5 minutes from the place of the event, then stopping to get a friend. Got there with an attitude that things couldn't start until he got there (…Wrong…). His own singer laid into him pretty well to make sure he knew what an ass-clown move it was.

At another, we were playing last. As the third from last band was about done, the guitar player/singer from one in between said to the sound guy "Well be back in a few minutes. I need to run home to get my stuff". Took forever to get back, then setup (While having some nice conversations with friends while doing so), and pretty much showed why they didn't seem so well liked.

Recently played the JimBags ben, and it was great. Transitions went smoothly and was a testament to those playing, and to Adam Zimmer, who organized. A great job and how ya like to see things go.

[floodcitybrass]

I'm not going to take sides because I only heard one side of the story.

I'm gonna have to agree with most of what Hawk said.

For any multi band show (benefit or not), there must be careful planning and you need to stick a schedule. I find it very frustrating when your timeslot is cut short by poor planning.

- Stage nazi yes, I mean you tell the bands that they are done BEFORE their time slot ends. Someone ultimately has to be the one in charge of killing the PA system if they go over their slot. Lay down the law and let people know there is a schedule and you will be cut off. It irritates me when one band thinks the "have" the crowd and they need to play longer.

-- The stage nazis should give a set amount of time to get on and off the stage. say 15 min on and 15 min off.

- When you are done playing, get your shit the f*** off the stage asap. Don't BS with anyone before you cleared the stage. When you are done playing, don't talk to the girls, don't sell cds and tshirts. Put your instrument IN THE CASE and get your shit off the stage.

- When you are done getting off the stage, help the next band get on the stage.

- Allocate realistic times. You can't have a band end at 5:00PM and then next band start at 5:00 PM. For small bands, 1/2 hour should suffice if they follow the above items I pointed out.

- Plan raffles, speeches, basket drawings, etc. accordingly. (between bands, not in the middle of a set).

-Bands - plan on ending a few minutes BEFORE your timeslot. Don't go over your slot, even by one minute.

- When you are waiting to take the stage, out of respect for the other bands: don't go on the stage, don't put stuff on the stage, don't distract the band playing, and don't distract the audience from watching them play.

- Keep your gear simple. Don't bring the 7 marshall stacks and the 37 piece rack cage double bass drum set complete with gong and lava lamp. If you bring too much shit, plan on quitting early so you have time to get it off.

- Don't get a crappy sound guy. Sound guys: don't suck. Plan accordingly and get stage plots and monitor mixes for each band.

-Sound guys, for heaven's sake, do not sound check the kick drum for 10 minutes for every band.

-Bands: don't be super picky about the monitor mixes. Just accept something reasonable given the circumstances and don't expect it to sound like your living room stereo.

- If the schedule slips, start taking 5 minutes off of each band. Don't penalize the last band give the last band a 12 minute long set.

THIS!

Well, except the part about the lava lamp...without a lava lamp on stage, we might as well all be playing through giant cardboard boxes with speaker grills drawn on with magic marker.

It's been a while but I thought it would be worth while to add my section on "Performer to Sound Man Communication Techniques and Etiquette."

Remember - Never ever tell a sound guy "I can't hear anything."
That just pisses them off and provides no useful information.

Instead you should follow this simple 3-step guideline:

1) Clearly say who you are and what instrument your are playing in a bright happy voice. (They don't know which of the 6 people on stage is talking.)

2) Say the instrument or singer that you want up or down. If it is an instrumentalist who also sings, be specific whether you want change the volume of their voice or instrument.
( You can't say I need more Bob in my monitor. Bob vocal? Bob guitar Oh... who is Bob ... is Bob the bass player or cow bell player??)

3) Before anyone else jumps on the monitor change band wagon, let the sound guy make the adjustment. Don't start shouting monitor change commands one second after someone else makes a request. Many times it seems that one person needs to "break the ice" and request monitor changes. Often this triggers a domino effect and instantly causes all other band members to simultaneously make requests thus overloading the sound guys mental capability.

[ToonaRockGuy]

Best approach to working with your soundman:

"Hi, I'm (your name), I play (instrument) for (band). Glad to work with you tonight! What can I do to make your job easier??"

THEN DO IT.

You will never have a bad mix.

[Jasaoke]

Good soundmen will listen to their monitors; walk around the stage and actually put their ears where the performers' ears are. Conversely, if you really want to make your soundman's job easier, take several nights and run sound for another band, or help out someone who is. Mile in his shoes kinda thing.

[bassist_25]

Best approach to working with your soundman:

"Hi, I'm (your name), I play (instrument) for (band). Glad to work with you tonight! What can I do to make your job easier??"

THEN DO IT.

You will never have a bad mix.

Yep.

Conversely, if you really want to make your soundman's job easier, take several nights and run sound for another band, or help out someone who is. Mile in his shoes kinda thing.

Yep.