Hello guys, I found the discussion about the scene and rockpage informational. ALOT of good points! I see people posting the scene is not dead, they get shows every week, and the money aint bad. It's not about the money for me but it is hard to find 4 or 5 guys that are able to pay to play.
Let me go back and introduce myself. I am Shawn Kurey the original drunk guy from the band Sound Of Silence from 10 years ago lol. This year was my 1st year on stage as the Bass Player and I have worked my way up from the drunk guy, stage hand, door guy, sound tech, and all that. Each position gave me more responsibility so I grew up and took these positions seriously.
What is a normal (no such thing lol) asking price when your booking shows? Use this for a example: If I wanted to book your band in Orbisonia PA (Southern Huntingdon County) and have no sound or lighting, what would you charge me? I know there are so many different factors for each band but the general question is what would it cost for you and YOUR band?
Feel free to give different prices and how you got that price if you would like. Such as if your the only band, if there was a band or 2 opening, If I had sound and lights provided, and if it was a all day festival. Maybe I'm asking for too much info and I'm sorry if I am but I'm just trying to learn that part of booking a band. I do have a habit of putting what I mean in to words that is not read how I ment it.
I SUPPORT LOCAL BANDS and the most recent bands I have went to show support were Limb By Limb, Ganister, Twelve, and Pennsylvania Mike and The Bedlam Boys.
Now it's pretty obvious I can ask friends off of here but I'm more interested in responses from the rockpage community. Thank You in advance! \m/ \m/
Seeking info not criticism
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shawnk_ent
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shawnk_ent
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I am asking this for a few different reasons. 1st I know there are a lot of bands on here that don't make anything. 2nd I know there are a lot of bands on here that can't play for under a certain amount. Ither way I send out Props to you all for what you do and you play to what you are comfortable with. But seriously even if you just want to send me a message instead of putting it out here, How much or what would it take to come to this part of the County next Spring or Summer?
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brtgoldtop
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In trying to reword what I said earlier, Ill just say that its tough to throw a price out there...... 
Last edited by brtgoldtop on Monday Dec 16, 2013, edited 3 times in total.
Naturally, the booking price of any gig depends on the particulars of that gig. Each band has their own set of criteria and standards that they use to determine price. Obviously the length of the show effects things, as well as the nature of the event. A one-time private party will often cost a bit more than a bar gig that could turn into steady work. The specifics and rationales behind pricing can be (and have been) debated at great length. But, to answer your question:
If we (kBand) were contacted about a show in that area (we're based out of Altoona), where we provided production, we would probably ask for around $1000. If production is provided, that number comes down a bit. I honestly have no idea what other bands in the area charge, but I'm pretty sure that we are closer to the high end of the spectrum as far as our rate.
If we (kBand) were contacted about a show in that area (we're based out of Altoona), where we provided production, we would probably ask for around $1000. If production is provided, that number comes down a bit. I honestly have no idea what other bands in the area charge, but I'm pretty sure that we are closer to the high end of the spectrum as far as our rate.
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KeithReynolds
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My opinion:
Its a general statement, its not to any one...but to everyone!
If youre doing it just for money, then youre gonna have different expectations than someone who just likes to play. Its all about goals. People's goals are different. Thats the best thing about it. Results will vary.
I will say this, if a band commands a huge price, they BETTER back it up musically and sometimes thats not the case. Its not uncommon for bands ask for amounts that arent even near what they are worth.
For some reason, some people have a strange idea of what standing there and moving your arms and fingers is worth. HAHA! Yes, your rendition of "Cumbersome" WAS worth the $35,000 for 3 hrs you cost....you are totally right.
Seriously though, the higher priced bands need to bring it on all fronts. The look, the stage presence, professionalism and the top notch musicianship. Who wants to pay 40 grand for a few dudes in scrubby ass clothes , playing songs off their latest latin psycho jazz record and making mistakes in the process?
If I was a club owner and its a good thing im not, I would dock the high priced bands for mistakes they made during the show. $40 grand and youre hitting sour notes and your drummer is messing up time? What am I paying you a huge price for when I could find a band who plays better and costs less?
There's many ways we could look at this. If you find a club owner thats paying 40 grand for a show, why the hell not take it?
OR if your band draws people out the ass, that can null and void negative things from a club owner's standpoint. There's a guy in this town who would book three worms having buttsex if he knew he could make money on it.
So money is what really makes all of this go around. Bands want it and club owners want it. Without the people to go to the show, none of that happens. You bring the people, you are able to dictate price. I mean REALLY bring people. Not just girlfriends, co-workers or roommates.
When some random person sees your band is playing somewhere and says "Holy shit & some spray cheese, I gotta be there!" ....you know youve made it to that point. Its possible.
Its a general statement, its not to any one...but to everyone!
If youre doing it just for money, then youre gonna have different expectations than someone who just likes to play. Its all about goals. People's goals are different. Thats the best thing about it. Results will vary.
I will say this, if a band commands a huge price, they BETTER back it up musically and sometimes thats not the case. Its not uncommon for bands ask for amounts that arent even near what they are worth.
For some reason, some people have a strange idea of what standing there and moving your arms and fingers is worth. HAHA! Yes, your rendition of "Cumbersome" WAS worth the $35,000 for 3 hrs you cost....you are totally right.
Seriously though, the higher priced bands need to bring it on all fronts. The look, the stage presence, professionalism and the top notch musicianship. Who wants to pay 40 grand for a few dudes in scrubby ass clothes , playing songs off their latest latin psycho jazz record and making mistakes in the process?
If I was a club owner and its a good thing im not, I would dock the high priced bands for mistakes they made during the show. $40 grand and youre hitting sour notes and your drummer is messing up time? What am I paying you a huge price for when I could find a band who plays better and costs less?
There's many ways we could look at this. If you find a club owner thats paying 40 grand for a show, why the hell not take it?
OR if your band draws people out the ass, that can null and void negative things from a club owner's standpoint. There's a guy in this town who would book three worms having buttsex if he knew he could make money on it.
So money is what really makes all of this go around. Bands want it and club owners want it. Without the people to go to the show, none of that happens. You bring the people, you are able to dictate price. I mean REALLY bring people. Not just girlfriends, co-workers or roommates.
When some random person sees your band is playing somewhere and says "Holy shit & some spray cheese, I gotta be there!" ....you know youve made it to that point. Its possible.
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shawnk_ent
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Hawk's baseline is right on.
You can always find someone to do anything cheaper. You can get a band to play any gig for free drafts and gas money. You can get a guy to paint your house for a case of beer plus the cost of paint. You can get a "sound system" for $50 per night.
Would you really want to?
You can always find someone to do anything cheaper. You can get a band to play any gig for free drafts and gas money. You can get a guy to paint your house for a case of beer plus the cost of paint. You can get a "sound system" for $50 per night.
Would you really want to?
The Hawk Said:
We joined when we were on the road in Erie, Pa. in 1975 and were forced to join or "get out of town". Almost everybody who was playing in Altoona had a union card back then but the base rate for a gig was about 27 bucks. That was based on big orchestras and most rock bands were already making 40 or 50 bucks per person a night so by the mid "80's" almost everybody dropped out. Things were just so hard to enforce.
Incidently, does Local Musician's Union 564 of Altoona even exist anymore? Loy Appleman was the guy who collected the dues.I think musicians should form a union.
We joined when we were on the road in Erie, Pa. in 1975 and were forced to join or "get out of town". Almost everybody who was playing in Altoona had a union card back then but the base rate for a gig was about 27 bucks. That was based on big orchestras and most rock bands were already making 40 or 50 bucks per person a night so by the mid "80's" almost everybody dropped out. Things were just so hard to enforce.
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KeithReynolds
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If you wanna keep your band playing for years, the worst thing you can do is overestimate your value. I think people forget that they are on stage playing songs and having a good time. Dont act like playing is such a hard thing to do. Obviously bands wanna make money, but shit, remember what youre doing. Youre not stacking cinderblocks for 15 hrs in 5 ft of snow. Youre playing songs and prob having drinks.
The high price is paid for the guaranteed ability to pack the house, not just for owning a guitar and being able to play songs halfassed.
You can write down all the demands and minimums you want, if you dont draw people, no one is gonna do business with your band again. Simple.
You should work with club owners instead of demanding things.
As far as DJs, the only way youd be able to eliminate them, is to attack the market that wants a dj. Dance, hiphop and rap crowds. So be prepared to learn a shit ton of rap and hip hop songs. Do them well, because that crowd wants it perfect. Is that really what you want to do? I cant imagine rock guys going "yeah, lets learn 500 gangsta rap songs so we can get those damn Djs out of town." Id love to see a band try that though. It would be funny.
The high price is paid for the guaranteed ability to pack the house, not just for owning a guitar and being able to play songs halfassed.
You can write down all the demands and minimums you want, if you dont draw people, no one is gonna do business with your band again. Simple.
You should work with club owners instead of demanding things.
As far as DJs, the only way youd be able to eliminate them, is to attack the market that wants a dj. Dance, hiphop and rap crowds. So be prepared to learn a shit ton of rap and hip hop songs. Do them well, because that crowd wants it perfect. Is that really what you want to do? I cant imagine rock guys going "yeah, lets learn 500 gangsta rap songs so we can get those damn Djs out of town." Id love to see a band try that though. It would be funny.
Just because a job is enjoyable doesn't mean that you shouldn't value your time and effort to do it. I am a contractor and I LOVE my job, but that doesn't mean I do it for free. If I'm doing it FOR someone else, to THEIR specs, in THEIR timetable, I'm getting paid for that. Add to that the fact that it is not something that everybody can, or wants to do, and the value increases.
I think it is possible to overvalue oneself, regardless of what you're doing, but I think that if you UNDERvalue yourself, you hurt the entire market. One of the reasons that it's hard to get a decent paying gig in this area is because there are a lot of bands who will play for less. I love making music, and I do it all the time. I love playing with friends and other bandmates, and I do that quite a bit, too. But I show up when I want, I bring whatever equipment I feel like bringing, I only play the songs that I feel like playing. If someone starts I tune that I don't like, I put down the guitar and do something else. If someone wants to smoke a joint, or throw an ax, or set off fireworks that's cool, because we're having fun on our own property, under our own terms. But for a gig, I have a time slot (which I don't choose) to fill with music. I also have an audience and client who are expecting certain material performed to certain standards. If I break a string, I better do something about it quickly. I have to provide equipment and entertainment reliably, which takes time, effort, and consideration. I value my time and efforts, and I get paid for them.
Ask anyone who is self-employed; they can't afford themselves. I wouldn't dream of paying someone what I charge people to do the same work. Ultimately. you will deliver a better product when you attach a number that you are comfortable with to your time and services. I will go well out of my way to perform each and every song to the best of my ability because I know that my efforts will be decently rewarded.
In both music and my 'straight' job, I tell people all the time that they can find someone to do it for less. Ya get what ya pay for.
As far as getting people to come, bands just aren't in that business. I never guarantee any type of crowd at our shows because that's simply out of my hands. I can't make people show up. All I can do is put on the best show I can. Moreover, a band CAN get people to come, but getting them to come back is mostly on the venue. If the place is a dump, the service stinks and things are expensive, people won't come back. We've packed a lot of rooms (go figure) but people simply don't return to places they don't like. I think it's imprtant for any act to find the right place, with the right audience. Getting gigs isn't nearly as imprtant as getting the RIGHT gigs.
I think it is possible to overvalue oneself, regardless of what you're doing, but I think that if you UNDERvalue yourself, you hurt the entire market. One of the reasons that it's hard to get a decent paying gig in this area is because there are a lot of bands who will play for less. I love making music, and I do it all the time. I love playing with friends and other bandmates, and I do that quite a bit, too. But I show up when I want, I bring whatever equipment I feel like bringing, I only play the songs that I feel like playing. If someone starts I tune that I don't like, I put down the guitar and do something else. If someone wants to smoke a joint, or throw an ax, or set off fireworks that's cool, because we're having fun on our own property, under our own terms. But for a gig, I have a time slot (which I don't choose) to fill with music. I also have an audience and client who are expecting certain material performed to certain standards. If I break a string, I better do something about it quickly. I have to provide equipment and entertainment reliably, which takes time, effort, and consideration. I value my time and efforts, and I get paid for them.
Ask anyone who is self-employed; they can't afford themselves. I wouldn't dream of paying someone what I charge people to do the same work. Ultimately. you will deliver a better product when you attach a number that you are comfortable with to your time and services. I will go well out of my way to perform each and every song to the best of my ability because I know that my efforts will be decently rewarded.
In both music and my 'straight' job, I tell people all the time that they can find someone to do it for less. Ya get what ya pay for.
As far as getting people to come, bands just aren't in that business. I never guarantee any type of crowd at our shows because that's simply out of my hands. I can't make people show up. All I can do is put on the best show I can. Moreover, a band CAN get people to come, but getting them to come back is mostly on the venue. If the place is a dump, the service stinks and things are expensive, people won't come back. We've packed a lot of rooms (go figure) but people simply don't return to places they don't like. I think it's imprtant for any act to find the right place, with the right audience. Getting gigs isn't nearly as imprtant as getting the RIGHT gigs.
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bassist_25
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I've always said that a union for cats out there playing rock, Top 40, etc. is fundamentally flawed, since those players are usually engaged in a contractor-client relationship with clubs. It works for orchestras, session work, pit work, and the like, because there is a master-servant relationship, and there is a differentiation between employees and 2(11) supervisors. The NLRB can come in to certify an orchestra bargaining unit since there is a clear employer in those cases. How can you enforce a collective bargaining agreement with a number of clubs that do not have an NLRA-requirement to deal with the union?RamRod 1 wrote:The Hawk Said:
Incidently, does Local Musician's Union 564 of Altoona even exist anymore? Loy Appleman was the guy who collected the dues.I think musicians should form a union.
We joined when we were on the road in Erie, Pa. in 1975 and were forced to join or "get out of town". Almost everybody who was playing in Altoona had a union card back then but the base rate for a gig was about 27 bucks. That was based on big orchestras and most rock bands were already making 40 or 50 bucks per person a night so by the mid "80's" almost everybody dropped out. Things were just so hard to enforce.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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bassist_25
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Earlier this year, I opened for a band from the Harrisburg area called Smooth as Clyde. They did a lot of hip-hop and they nailed it! They even soundchecked with California Love by Tupac. Great players and nice guys.KeithReynolds wrote:
As far as DJs, the only way youd be able to eliminate them, is to attack the market that wants a dj. Dance, hiphop and rap crowds. So be prepared to learn a shit ton of rap and hip hop songs. Do them well, because that crowd wants it perfect. Is that really what you want to do? I cant imagine rock guys going "yeah, lets learn 500 gangsta rap songs so we can get those damn Djs out of town." Id love to see a band try that though. It would be funny.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
Nobody ever says what they make, there's some legitimate reasons, and its a social taboo to talk about money for whatever reason, but I'll throw out some hypotheticals here.
We are a 5 piece band, we provide PA and a sound man, we take $50, for PA maintenance and pay the sound man an equal cut. We don't play with opening bands.
We bring ridiculous amounts of production and lights, so we arrive 3 hours early. We might get a half hour "break" after sound check before we start.
We usually play 3-4 hours depending on what the venue wants. It usually takes us around 2 hours to tear down and pack everything up.
So that's 8 to 9 hours at a venue.
8 hours x $10 an hour x 6 way split + $50 PA maintenance = $530
That leaves $130 to hire sound, if you don't have it, which is pretty damned cheap.
We've played for less and we've played for more, and $10 an hour isn't exactly raking in the benjamins.
I played Saturday for probably about what it cost to drive my truck in 4 wheel drive to Altoona and back.
We are a 5 piece band, we provide PA and a sound man, we take $50, for PA maintenance and pay the sound man an equal cut. We don't play with opening bands.
We bring ridiculous amounts of production and lights, so we arrive 3 hours early. We might get a half hour "break" after sound check before we start.
We usually play 3-4 hours depending on what the venue wants. It usually takes us around 2 hours to tear down and pack everything up.
So that's 8 to 9 hours at a venue.
8 hours x $10 an hour x 6 way split + $50 PA maintenance = $530
That leaves $130 to hire sound, if you don't have it, which is pretty damned cheap.
We've played for less and we've played for more, and $10 an hour isn't exactly raking in the benjamins.
I played Saturday for probably about what it cost to drive my truck in 4 wheel drive to Altoona and back.
Stand back, I like to rock out.
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KeithReynolds
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I know there are bands out there that do hip hop and rap, I was talking about locally.
You guys are missing the point. For example, walk into a rap bar on a friday night and start setting band stuff up. Then start playing whatever music you think the crowd would like. Rude awakening time. They would laugh you out of the city. Trust me. Generally, that crowd just isnt into bands. Not everyone likes bands. Some people wont even give bands a shot. I dont get it, but whatever. Rap bars and crowds are not a target audience for a rock band.
Its the same thing if you took a little redneck bar and put on a rap show or just played rap music all night. It prob wouldnt be good.
You guys are missing the point. For example, walk into a rap bar on a friday night and start setting band stuff up. Then start playing whatever music you think the crowd would like. Rude awakening time. They would laugh you out of the city. Trust me. Generally, that crowd just isnt into bands. Not everyone likes bands. Some people wont even give bands a shot. I dont get it, but whatever. Rap bars and crowds are not a target audience for a rock band.
Its the same thing if you took a little redneck bar and put on a rap show or just played rap music all night. It prob wouldnt be good.
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shawnk_ent
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Thank You guys for all your post! Every comment here makes a lot of sense! This is the reason I started the topic because I was interested in all of your thots and to see the differences of members of the Rockpage community. we did run our own sound for years but a member that left needed his part of the sound equipment for his new project. We stepped back and decided to hire sound which worked out pretty awesome as far as cutting our total time in half and the sound is of good quality. but it ended up costing us some shows also. We now have to make sure we book shows that we make ATLEAST enough to pay our hired sound. It was nice doing it ourselves but it is one of those things that has to be weighed out to see which way is beneficial the most. We could take the money we pay for sound and replace what we don't have but then we will have to find someone that can produce quality sound and that was a issue we had in the first place. Most of the money we make now does go to paying the sound tech. Thank you guys again!
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brtgoldtop
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We are in the same boat. We normally just make sure our sound guy is covered and whatever is left we deal with. I have found it a time saver, and a lot less stressful. Our sound guys are awesome and if we come out at the end of the night with little money to divide up it was all worth it to me knowing our sound was good and we had a worry free night....as far as sound goes anyway.