Profit Sharing

livemusiclvr · Post by **livemusiclvr** » Monday Mar 28, 2005

With the ever rising costs of everything, and not wanting to charge too much for a job, how do you compete and still remain fair to everyone in the band?

How do you split the $$$ from a job, equally or fairly?

Who determines what's fair?

How do you determine what is a band expense without everyone becoming disgruntled, asking "Why do I have to help pay for that" and taking the fun out of playing in the first place?

What's fair among band members, how are some of you established musicians in the area splitting the expenses and profits from each job?

Any thoughts or ideas?

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Mar 28, 2005

Good Question and a tough one to answer sometimes. I guess you have to see what works in your situation.

I bought all our Pa and lights, and I'm still paying on it. The only money I take is when we make over $400, then I take up to $100. So if we make $400 I get nothing extra, if we make $500 I get an extra $100, if we make $600 we slit $500 and I take an extra $100.

Now we just started playing paying jobs last june and I only collected a little over $300 extra so............. I'm not getting the best deal but the gear is mine also and if someone leaves there's no question. Actually I bought more than $300 worth of stuff last year. The good thing is most of the buying is over for awhile and maybe I can get caught up this year. Bad thing is equipment depreciates fast so It won't be worth much by the time we're done using it.

I would actually like to see someone else make some of the upgrades that I would like but I know its not gonna happen. I would like to spend $1500 on a nice new guitar instead of Pa gear but I guess someone has to do it ???

If you guys are buying I would suggest everyone buy seperate pieces rather than everyone owning 1/4 or 1/5 of the entire Pa.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Mar 28, 2005

The other option is to only do jobs where there is in house sound or to have a sound company come in each time. Alot of people complain that sound companies are expensive but if you add up the costs it may not be.

The only problem is you can't do small jobs that only pay $300 if the sound guy wants $300.

Post by **Ron** » Monday Mar 28, 2005

If I was investing in a PA I would seriously look into the Bose PAS. It's a great implementation of an age old theory (line arrays), and it requires no board, no snake, no sound guy, and no monitor system. Setup and teardown are a cakewalk.

The nice thing in your situation is that every band member basically has their own mini PA. They pay for it and own it, just like a guitar rig, so you can then split everything evenly and that's it.

The only quirk about the PAS is that your stage sound then becomes everything. If you can get an awesome stage sound, then that is exactly what you and the audience will hear. Without a monitor system and with low source levels, you can hear everything on stage. The guitarists using them are now buying tiny little esoteric tube amps because the key is to have a phenomenal instrument sound at a low level. The PAS line arrays do everything else.

Just make sure that you don't demo the PAS system by listening to a cd through it. That would be like buying a guitar by listening to it on a recording. The system takes on a whole new persona in a live situation.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Mar 28, 2005

Ron wrote:If I was investing in a PA I would seriously look into the Bose PAS. It's a great implementation of an age old theory (line arrays), and it requires no board, no snake, no sound guy, and no monitor system. Setup and teardown are a cakewalk.
The only drawback is that your stage sound then becomes everything. If you can get an awesome stage sound, then that is exactly what you and the audience will hear. The guitarists using them are buying tiny little esoteric tube amps because the key is to have a phenomenal instrument sound at a low level. The PAS line arrays do everything else.
Just make sure that you don't demo the system by listening to a cd through it. That would be like buying a guitar by listening to it on a recording. The system takes on a whole new persona in a live situation.

Yeah but isn't each member of the band supposed to have there own PAS ??? Thats a good deal of cash right there and to mike drums they call for like 8 of the subs or something. I think its an awsome idea and I haven't heard it yet but I guess I'm sceptical for 1 and even if you only bought 2 of them thats close to what you can get a sizable conventional system for.

If I was to do it over, I would have done alot of things different so I'm kinda stuck now............... So take my advice and do your homework before buying!!!!!!!! Don't buy Carvin either.

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

tonefight wrote:Yeah but isn't each member of the band supposed to have there own PAS ???

That's part of the beauty of the system. The band as a collective isn't invested in a PA, and there is no need for roadies or sound guys, so the band's individual pay goes up - probably enough to pay for the system over a fairly short time.

I've heard the system in use once, and it sounded wonderful. Very airy, clean and wide. There was so much space and definition in the mix that you would have been as amazed as I was. As a former sound guy, I felt like a dinosaur when I heard it and knew that the band was mixing on stage by remote control. I'm sure a big part of it is that the signal path is so short. Very few cables.
I heard it in a mid-sized club in Philly. The drummer had two subs and one of the stacks. (He used a single kick, snare, 3 tom setup), the bass player had the same, the singer had 2 stacks, and the guitar player had just one stack which also amplified his vocals. It sounded damn near perfect.

From what I've heard lately, they are really hard to find because the supply is falling behind the demand.

livemusiclvr · Post by **livemusiclvr** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

Okay, what if all of the equipment is paid for? Everyone owns their own gear of course and the PA is owned by 1 of the band members.

Everyone knows what the bars around here are paying out, so when you're only making $50 to $400 on any givin night, depending on where you play, how do you split the cost among the band, equally or fairly?

If you have 5 people in a band do you go by level of contribution? Then things become more like work.

If you're using the same trailer or box van to get the gear there, and everyone else drives seperate, is everyone reponsible for paying into the gazillion dollars for gear transportation, even though they know have driven themselves to the job?

I had a lead guitarist one time that felt once he had his gear packed up, he was done for the night ,and he felt that everyone should get an equal cut of the job

! His theory was, he didn't use the PA because he didn't sing and shouldn't have to tear it down. Should he have gotten an equal cut?

The only way the band will get paid is if everyone does their share during each set, right? That's what makes the band.

So what's fair when splitting up the cash??

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

Ron wrote:If I was investing in a PA I would seriously look into the Bose PAS. It's a great implementation of an age old theory (line arrays), and it requires no board, no snake, no sound guy, and no monitor system. Setup and teardown are a cakewalk.

The nice thing in your situation is that every band member basically has their own mini PA. They pay for it and own it, just like a guitar rig, so you can then split everything evenly and that's it.

The only quirk about the PAS is that your stage sound then becomes everything. If you can get an awesome stage sound, then that is exactly what you and the audience will hear. Without a monitor system and with low source levels, you can hear everything on stage. The guitarists using them are now buying tiny little esoteric tube amps because the key is to have a phenomenal instrument sound at a low level. The PAS line arrays do everything else.

Just make sure that you don't demo the PAS system by listening to a cd through it. That would be like buying a guitar by listening to it on a recording. The system takes on a whole new persona in a live situation.

My 1st thought was, why bother with a guitar amp? Get a floor preamp/pedal or a rackmount with one of those posts and your ready to go. Then I saw the $2000 price tag.

I can't wait to see the look on a new bass player's face when you ask them: "by the way, do you have $2,300 to pick up your section of the PA?"

The personal amplification/line array look like great concepts, but what will stop stage volume one-upsmanship? How can you trust an individual to set their own volume? I'd still like to see a centrallized controller to adjust levels. I guess you could have a sound guy sitting in the audience with a bunch of remotes...

Skate Toad · Post by **Skate Toad** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

What we do when it comes to money is...... We take $50 out of every show and put it into a band account for expenses or purchases we may need later (studio time,equip,gas on long trips,promo stuff etc.) and then the rest gets evenly split. We all try to do the same amount of work. There are times when someone has to bug out early or gets there late etc. but it just seems to work out that we all get a chance to do that from time to time as needed and it all evens out. I was just thinking about how the work all pans out amoung my band and everyone seems to put in in one way or another. Even if it's we prac. at this guys house and he pays the electric, this person has to drive 30-45 min everytime we need to prac or have a show, one person is always there early to pack up gear,one does all the web stuff and booking(we all are usually keeping our eyes and ears out), Basically i'm lucky we all share the burdens somewhat evenly.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

Good question!!

I personally think the guys from Beyond Reason need to give me a slightly larger cut since I use a lot more hair products before we go out and play.

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

I think I could rival you on that one!

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

Half goes to my shrink and half to my dealer....

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

We have a mathematical system that corresponds with how many chicks we bone during a gig.

First we pay sound and lights. After that, money is distributed on a sliding percentage scale. Of course, the system is purely capitalistic. It's not how many chicks you screw but how many you screw in relation to the other guys. Blow jobs are worth half of what intercourse is.

For example, let's say that old sKool is with 2.5 girls and we have 300 dollars left over after paying production. If no one else gets laid, he gets the whole 300 dollars. But if another scenario has old sKool with 3 girls and another one of us is with one, old sKool gets $225 and the other gets $75 (75% of the sexual conquest was old sKool's while the the other 25% was someone elses). Even though Rob and Randy are married, sleeping with one's wife doesn't count.

I've been in bands with various paying methods, but this one seems to work the best.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

I checked ebay and there is 1 Bose PAS for sale, thats a pretty good sign that people aren't buying them and turning around and selling them.

I can imagine the laughter if I told everyone in the band to go out and buy one though. It would be great, hell we could go to the gig in my wife's car instead of the van.

red · Post by **red** » Tuesday Mar 29, 2005

Ron wrote:If I was investing in a PA I would seriously look into the Bose PAS. It's a great implementation of an age old theory (line arrays), and it requires no board, no snake, no sound guy, and no monitor system. Setup and teardown are a cakewalk.

.

Thats what we use, 1 guitar, 1 snare, and an upright bass. Sometimes we add a mandolin. It works GREAT!

esa · Post by **esa** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

byndrsn wrote:Good question!!
I personally think the guys from Beyond Reason need to give me a slightly larger cut since I use a lot more hair products before we go out and play.

DMFJ03 wrote:I think I could rival you on that one!

True...but don't both of you take it out in trade with Dan?

orangekick · Post by **orangekick** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

In every band that I have ever been in, all money is put into a band fund. The band has never been a vehicle for money making. The band supports itself. This money is then used for recording, merch or in some cases gas money for longer trips. I have no idea what I would do if one of my bands actually started turning a profit.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

tonefight wrote:
If I was to do it over, I would have done alot of things different so I'm kinda stuck now............... So take my advice and do your homework before buying!!!!!!!! Don't buy Carvin either.

Tony!!

We love our Carvin PA!!

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

Yeah!!

T - it's never given us any problems.

Why you hatin'?

Matt_22 · Post by **Matt_22** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

I'm with tony on this one, I have heard to many horror stories about carvin. I remember when Tony was having alot of problems with his carvin stuff. Thats not a position I would ever want to be in.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

The Main problem was with the internal powered speakers, I got rid of the tops I had and replaced them with speakers half the size with half the wattage and it sounds better. I haven't had any problems with the remaining Carvin equipment but I know people running less equipment and getting more out of it so therefore I would say Peavey is about 10 steps above carvin

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

DMFJ03 wrote:Yeah!!

T - it's never given us any problems.

Why you hatin'?

It ( Carvin Speakers ) embarrased us once, I tried to make some provisions
It embarrased us a second time, sent them on a trip back to sunny California
It embarrased us a third time and I got rid of 'em

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

I was only teasin', bud - you know that.

Hell, the third time, I would have sold the speakers...kept the cabs, set them on fire, and invited people over for a weenie roast!

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

not to get us back on topic or anything but we make "the Band" another member of the band. We're a 3-piece so all monies get divied by 4. I 25%, The bass get 25% the drums get 25% and the band gets 25%, that way individual members don't have to come out of pocket as much for things like gas and hotels etc, and additional income like Cd sales and t-shirts and things also go into that band fund. when special purchases like studio time and large equipment are required, special arrangements are made, but most things pay for themselves.

I respect Orangekicks communist approach but it sometimes leads to fights. As Hurricane Bobby pointed out some of us have bills to pay.

esa · Post by **esa** » Wednesday Mar 30, 2005

FatVin wrote: I respect Orangekicks communist approach but it sometimes leads to fights. As Hurricane Bobby pointed out some of us have bills to pay.

You mean some bands don't have sugar momma's or sugar daddy's to pay the bills?

I thought everyone did!?!