Floyd Rose alternatives?

[Dark Soul]

The Floyd Rose tremolo: I love what it does for me but using it is a pain in the ass. I still want a trem that will let me wank on my trem bar without going badly out of tune, though, if possible. Does anyone have any good alternative suggestions? I heard Floyd Rose came out with a new trem some years ago. Anyone know anything about this? I'm about ready to just say goodbye to the trem bar altogether and stick with a fixed bridge.

[bassist_25]

Have you considered Kahler?

[songsmith]

I had LOTS of guitars, and back in the day, I would occasionally buy one with a dive-bomb trem... which I seldom kept for more than a month or so. They're like 12-string acoustics, in that when you sit with it for the first time, you think,"this will be a big part of my sound," but my ear tires of it quickly. Perhaps if you built your entire playing style around the trem, but that seems a bit much.
I grew impatient with the hassles of retuning, changing tunings, more parts to break, and I palm-muted alot, so that screwed things up as well. I even block the classic trems on my Strats, now.
Obviously though, your mileage may vary. I played a Schecter with a Sustainer on it the other day at work, and the Floyd made it one of the most fun guitars I've played in a long time.

[Dark Soul]

Oh yea, I think I've seen them before somewhere. The design looks interesting. Know anyone who's actually used one?

[StumbleFingers]

I heard Floyd Rose came out with a new trem some years ago. Anyone know anything about this?

Are you thinking of the Speedloader? Haven't tried one but it looks like a cool system. The downside is that they use special strings which are supposed to be hard to find.

The best thing that ever happened to my Floyds is letting a good tech handle all the maintenance. I love using them, hate fussing with them. Terry at Guitars 'n Stuff (floydroseuser on RP) is a magician and there are other guys around. The extra expense is well worth it for the time and frustration it saves.

And frankly, the Floyds perform better than when I took care of them myself. When I was in Hair Force One it wasn't uncommon for a Terry-ized Floyd to hold a tune through several months of heavy use at gigs and practice.

Also: Kahlers suck. Floyd Rose won the whammy wars by virtue of a superior product. Some folks may disagree with that.

[old Skool]

I second everything Greg just said. A Floyd that is set up properly & dialed in should hold tune (and Terry at Guitars-n-Stuff is awesome with setting these things up!) & in my experience hold tune better than a non-locking system. I've played many Les Paul's & Strats that within a few songs had them knocked out of tune. Depending on your style, needs, preference, etc you may want to block the trem so that it dives but won't pull back (especially if you're heavy with down pressure while palm muting). There are several different systems out there to do this. Some are pretty much fixed & others (like the Tremol-No) offer the ability to turn the locking on & off fairly easily. Something I've found too that plays into the "feel" of the Floyd is if it floats above the body or is recessed into the body. I have less problem with the Floyds that are non-recessed, just seems I can palm mute hard without pushing back on the bar, maybe because the bridge sets up higher & I can keep centered more above the pivots. Also just slightly off topic I found that adding a larger block, like the Floyd Upgrades Big Blocks helps with the tone of the bridge. To me I get a better balanced tone. Some guys don't notice much difference with them but I'm sold on them.

[PanzerFaust]

I've always played and loved Kahlers....

I think they're back in business?????

[old Skool]

Yeah Kahler has been back in business for a few years. I've always liked the Floyd over the Kahler but played an early to mid 80's Jackson with a Kahler that was awesome. The guitar wasn't the best of shape but just had a ton of mojo. Had one of those old dirty bolt on maple necks that was so broke in & just right on the money. Would love to add that guitar to my collection if the owner would ever part with it.

[Gallowglass]

I've stayed away from Floyds (and trem systems in general) for years, mostly because I've had so many bad experiences with improperly set up ones in the past. I used to have a Jackson RR with a Floyd and it was a great guitar but the bridge was nothing but a pain. I eventually ended up just blocking it until I eventually got rid of the guitar (I still regret it). More recently, I owned a Carvin V220 with a Kahler and the system was so bad that the guitar just sat in a closet until I eventually traded it for an Xbox. I'm sure that these past experiences are partially why I became such a Gibson/hardtail oriented player.

I'm happy to say that I've completely turned around in the last 6 months or so. I've been playing a Jackson Dinky with a German (Schaller) made Floyd on it. Terry from Guitars n' Stuff did the initial set up a long time ago and I adjusted it to be in balance in standard tuning (it was originally set a 1/2 step down). Luckily, the stars aligned and I didn't screw it up. What a joy it has become! I can literally drop the bar until the strings are completely slack and then raise the bar up until the original pitch is like a 5th above, let the bar flutter, punch it, whatever...the thing does NOT go out of tune. I can do all that crazy stuff and then play a chord and it hasn't moved tuning whatsoever. It has really opened up areas of playing that I never ventured into before. The real secret is to get a good system with quality manufactured parts and good steel, and get someone who knows what they are doing to set it up. Locally, both Terry and our very own Slothkill can set up a trem system as well as anyone. They are both true professionals.

As another aside, I have been warned away from Floyd Rose II systems, apparently a lot of players don't feel that they perform as well as the originals.

[PanzerFaust]

My Jacksons with Kahlers are much nicer to play than the Jacksons I have with factory Floyd knock off's....

Always favored a Kahler over a Floyd....

[StumbleFingers]

Here's a question for the Kahler fans. Do you feel they have a distinctly different sound than a Floyd? They certainly have a different feel.

The sound of a whammy is definitely a factor. Look at the Bigsby... It's a pretty primitive system but it's still popular because it has such a cool and unique sound.

BTW, how the heck does Jeff Beck do what he does with a regular Strat bridge?!? Wow.

[PanzerFaust]

I've always preferred Kahlers cause they are easier to palm mute etc...

[Gallowglass]

The only real difference between the Schallers and the original Floyd is the writing. Once they went into production, Schaller actually manufactured them for Floyd. I think a lot of the problems are with the licensed ones that use poor quality steel. They tend to wear badly with use.

I'd really like to try a Kahler that is set up properly. I can see where palm muting would be easier on that system. Can you get decent bar tension on a Kahler? I have little real experience with them. On the few that I've played that stayed in tune well the bar felt a little loose and sloppy. I don't mean whether or not the bar stays in place, but the actual resistance to pushing or pulling up or down. I kind of like to have to fight with it a bit.

Beck actually has his stock Strat bridge set up to float a little more than the regular set-up. His whammy work is absolutely AMAZING!

[PanzerFaust]

There's a recessed allen head on the Kahler that easily adjusts the tension with a twist of the allen wrench.....

besides palm muting they tune easier and stay in tune better which is why for 30 years I've always stuck with Kahler

[PanzerFaust]

[PanzerFaust]

Spring Tension Adjuster.......

[Gallowglass]

Cool, thanks.

[Killjingle]

a properly set up original floyd with properly stretched strings rarely goes out of tune. I didnt have to tune my kirk hammett ESP for 4 months. And I am very anal about being out of tune.

[Dark Soul]

So many different opinions on this! Interesting. I appreciate all the thoughts. Anyone else care to share their tremolo experiences?