PSU Sanctions

[Jsun76]

Am I the only one who thinks they are more than fair?

[Banned]

They avoided the death penalty, which would have really damaged the football program. They can work their way out of this, they were going to suck for a few years after all this bad publicity anyway.

Edit: It has been 25 years since PSU had a National Championship in football, it will probably be at least another 25 years until the next one.

[Jim Price]

I was expecting the harsh penalties sans the vacated wins, which I question. All vacating those wins does is punish the past players who earned them; I can't envision that step as a viable "corrective measure." It's not like the team won those games because of the apparent cover-up.

At least it isn't the "death penalty," which would have impacted many people who had nothing to do with this situation, as well as the jobs and economy of our region.

As for the current football program, hopefully Coach O'Brien can use the next four years to set everything into place and implement his program, so that he and the team can hit the ground running once the program is bowl-eligible again.

Reaction from former tailback Evan Royster: “ah crap…. So I lost every college football game I ever played in?”

[Jsun76]

Statement by Coach Bill O'Brien-

Today we receive a very harsh penalty from the NCAA and as Head Coach of the Nittany Lions football program, I will do everything in my power to not only comply, but help guide the University forward to become a national leader in ethics, compliance and operational excellence. I knew when I accepted the position that there would be tough times ahead. But I am committed for the long term to Penn State and our student athletes.

I was then and I remain convinced that our student athletes are the best in the country. I could not be more proud to lead this team and these courageous and humble young men into the upcoming 2012 season. Together we are committed to building a better athletic program and university.

[Banned]

The vacated wins were something I predicted a while back. They did not vacate all Joepa's wins. Just those from 1998 on. Since he ignored a child molester raper using PSU facilities. Since he ignored a child raper who was his Def coordinator, the heir apparent to replace Paterno at one time, good friend for 30 years, and had an office next to his.

In 1998 Joe Paterno chose his wins and his records and his legacy, over doing the Right thing involving a young boy raper.

[StumbleFingers]

It's not like the team won those games because of the apparent cover-up.

It's impossible to measure how much damage a child abuse scandal would have done to the program in the 2001 incident, but there clearly would have been some impact from the negative publicity. At the very least Sandusky continued to do his training camps, which were considered a recruiting activity by the NCAA because every kid that attended was a potential future PSU player.

I do disagree with backdating it to 1998. The 1998 incident was fully investigated by the police and no charges were filed. After reading the Freeh Report I think that was the correct decision. There was no overt sexual contact reported, although in retrospect it was clearly "grooming" activity that may have lead to worse incidents for that child down the road.

Taking the wins away is largely a symbolic gesture. All of the greatest benefits of those wins have already happened - the emotional high, the glory for the players who continued to professional football careers, the bowl games earned, the financial benefits for the community.

[lonewolf]

Am I the only one who thinks they are more than fair?

Only if you believe that it is fair to render a sentence before the verdict.

Since it is highly unlikely that the PSU officials will be exonerated, the sanctions seem fair enough.

I agree with Jim Price on the wins, though. When you consider the treatment this scandal had during the first few days after the grand jury, I do not believe that there would have been a negative scandal for the school or the football program had the officials handled this matter properly in the McQueary incident.

[Don Hughes]

First off, my heart goes out to all of the kids that were abused and/or raped by Jerry Sandusky. These punishments and sanctions are a pinprick compared to what they have to deal with for the rest of their lives.

Is the punishment fair, maybe, maybe not. What I do feel is that this should be a lesson to any of those student/athletes, as well as any human being in any group that if you do something outside the group that causes much harm, it will harm your fellow people in the group who had nothing to do with it.

I do give Joe Pa a little bit of credit for being the only one to say that they could have done more. The problem with that is that he simply didn't. We all can wish for anything we want, but it takes a real man to act, to put a kid's welfare over the welfare of the institution.

As to the argument that the Freeh Report had an agenda.... OF COURSE IT DID! Every investigation has an agenda. The agenda is to find out what happened. I am not a trained investigator, nor am I a former head of the FBI. I think Freeh has more credentals than anyone on this message board to conduct an investigation.

Kids were harmed, enough said. If one of those kids were my son, I would not only want Sandusky punished, but EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO KNOW ABOUT IT, AND DID NOT GO TO STATE POLICE punished! If I have suspicion that someone is molesting a child, I would go to the cops. Why? BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

Joe Paterno's statue had the word "humaitarian" on it. What a great humanitarian putting the program ahead of an accusaion of abuse.

Now, I do also feel that Paterno is getting more than his fair share of blame. Curly, Graham, McQueary, and others deserve just as much of the blame. Because Paterno was the face of Penn State University, he will get more of the media attention, and more of the blame, which is wrong. He is not the only person to blame in all of this.

Penn State also propped themselves up as different than other universities, but when they fall, the fall is much harder. Ask any priest or TV evangelist how hard the fall is when they prop themselves up, and then get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

I am a Penn State grad, and I have no ill will towards the university (I did not go to the main campus, I am an Altoona Campus grad), however I do feel ill will towards the people who put the football program, and even Penn State University, ahead of abused kids. I don't care what Paterno did for the University. I don't care how many games the football team wins. They mean nothing when you have an opportunity to do good with the power you have. Yes, Paterno did good with his power and money in his past, but this means something much bigger.

[Don Hughes]

One more thing. The players currently at the university have a choice to stay at Penn State, or go to another university and play football. The abused kids didn't have a choice to be abused.

[Banned]

Am I the only one who thinks they are more than fair?

Only if you believe that it is fair to render a sentence before the verdict.

Since it is highly unlikely that the PSU officials will be exonerated, the sanctions seem fair enough.

I agree with Jim Price on the wins, though. When you consider the treatment this scandal had during the first few days after the grand jury, I do not believe that there would have been a negative scandal for the school or the football program had the officials handled this matter properly in the McQueary incident.

Joepa knew (if he understood English) that his former defense coordinator was caught naked in a shower with a young boy, doing something strange if not outright rape.

What steps did Joepa do to find out if that young boy was raped, or harmed in any way. NONE.

[Dark Soul]

I think Penn State deserves whatever the NCAA gives them. I don't care how awesome their football program is. There is no excuse for turning a blind eye to the abuse those boys suffered. I truly feel sorry for all the players who gave their heart and soul to Penn State only to have to suffer a blanket punishment like this, but the world needs to see that this kind of thing will not be tolerated regardless of the reputations of those involved. No doubt this kind of thing goes on elsewhere as well. The more strict the punishment, the more other organizations will think twice before committing the same crime.

For what it's worth, there's a poll on Yahoo asking if Penn State's punishment is right. As of today, out of 175,799 votes, 52% agreed with the NCAA punishment and 26% felt it was too lenient. Only 22% thought it was too harsh.

[Jim Price]

Below is something that had crossed my mind when the talk was that Penn State might get the "death penalty." Another possible collateral impact on the victims that few people have really considered, as laid out in this anonymous letter:

Today the Penn State University and the NCAA has acted repulsively with total disregard for the victims of Jerry Sandusky.

Conventional wisdom is that all of this is being done “for the victims.” Every statement uttered by PSU, NCAA, media, or public at large begins and ends with “our hearts go out to the victims.”

The truth is that these victims are now adults. These men were abused physically as children and now are being abused mentally by this circus. All the do-gooders are trying to fix a sin of one individual that cannot ever be reversed.

Might we objectively take a moment to stop and really think in more depth. Consider this agreement the NCAA and Penn State apparently negotiated. Penn State has said it will not fight back. Please take note: NCAA penalties are a punishment against Sandusky’s victims.

While we all very clearly understand that none of this was the fault of the victims, can we remotely feel assured they do not now feel responsibility for the aftermath? It is often the case that victims blame themselves for what happened in child abuse cases.

Considering this let’s take a moment to reflect on it. These victims (most are Penn State fans) now will wake up each day feeling they are the reason PSU lost all its wins. They will feel responsible for the university officials squandering away the hard work of so many innocent athletes past and future, or for bowl game exclusion. Should the victims feel this way? No. Will they feel this way? Likely. The Sanctions included fines that will financially affect the lives of under privileged kids struggling to get through school. The sanctions take away scholarships from kids in need, kids just like the victims. The victims may feel the university has sold out all of PSU on their backs.

So when all the smug media personalities, board members, administration, NCAA officials think they can now sleep well knowing they are changing the world….they might remember that they may not be helping those kids heal in any way. They might be inflicting substantially more pain by allowing punishments handed out to thousands of innocents. These leaders are in fact making the whole tragedy far worse for these poor men afflicted. People are sadly short sited and self absorbed repeatedly claiming that this is “all about victims”, but it is clearly more about their own self righteousness.

As for Mr Emmert’s proclamation that this must never happen again….
Correct, it must never happen again. Unfortunately, reality outside Pleasantville is the existence of criminals and perverts, con-artists and criminals. We cannot legislate them away Mr. Emmert. Your misdirected blame and the agreement of same from Penn State would be the best place to start in righting the ship. The victims deserve justice. No worse and no less. Today they have been provided a burden that, to them, may feel unbearable. Careful thought on the part of all us should be exercised in thinking of Sandusky’s victims. As for those in Power at the NCAA and PSU – shame on all of you.

[Banned]

A current ESPN poll with over 172,000 votes has:

21% too harsh

46% appropriate

21% too lenient

11% NCAA should have no punishments.

[f.sciarrillo]

A current ESPN poll with over 172,000 votes has:

21% too harsh

46% appropriate

21% too lenient

11% NCAA should have no punishments.

Considering they didn't get the death penalty. I will take what they did get.

[Hawk]

Below is something that had crossed my mind when the talk was that Penn State might get the "death penalty." Another possible collateral impact on the victims that few people have really considered, as laid out in this anonymous letter:

Today the Penn State University and the NCAA has acted repulsively with total disregard for the victims of Jerry Sandusky.

Conventional wisdom is that all of this is being done “for the victims.” Every statement uttered by PSU, NCAA, media, or public at large begins and ends with “our hearts go out to the victims.”

The truth is that these victims are now adults. These men were abused physically as children and now are being abused mentally by this circus. All the do-gooders are trying to fix a sin of one individual that cannot ever be reversed.

Might we objectively take a moment to stop and really think in more depth. Consider this agreement the NCAA and Penn State apparently negotiated. Penn State has said it will not fight back. Please take note: NCAA penalties are a punishment against Sandusky’s victims.

While we all very clearly understand that none of this was the fault of the victims, can we remotely feel assured they do not now feel responsibility for the aftermath? It is often the case that victims blame themselves for what happened in child abuse cases.

Considering this let’s take a moment to reflect on it. These victims (most are Penn State fans) now will wake up each day feeling they are the reason PSU lost all its wins. They will feel responsible for the university officials squandering away the hard work of so many innocent athletes past and future, or for bowl game exclusion. Should the victims feel this way? No. Will they feel this way? Likely. The Sanctions included fines that will financially affect the lives of under privileged kids struggling to get through school. The sanctions take away scholarships from kids in need, kids just like the victims. The victims may feel the university has sold out all of PSU on their backs.

So when all the smug media personalities, board members, administration, NCAA officials think they can now sleep well knowing they are changing the world….they might remember that they may not be helping those kids heal in any way. They might be inflicting substantially more pain by allowing punishments handed out to thousands of innocents. These leaders are in fact making the whole tragedy far worse for these poor men afflicted. People are sadly short sited and self absorbed repeatedly claiming that this is “all about victims”, but it is clearly more about their own self righteousness.

As for Mr Emmert’s proclamation that this must never happen again….
Correct, it must never happen again. Unfortunately, reality outside Pleasantville is the existence of criminals and perverts, con-artists and criminals. We cannot legislate them away Mr. Emmert. Your misdirected blame and the agreement of same from Penn State would be the best place to start in righting the ship. The victims deserve justice. No worse and no less. Today they have been provided a burden that, to them, may feel unbearable. Careful thought on the part of all us should be exercised in thinking of Sandusky’s victims. As for those in Power at the NCAA and PSU – shame on all of you.

Well thought out, thought provoking letter JP. Thanks for sharing that.

[lonewolf]

What steps did Joepa do to find out if that young boy was raped, or harmed in any way. NONE.

Why would this notion even cross his mind (or anyone else's for that matter) once it was reported to the proper authorities, which included his department RI and the RI of the University Police Department? Are you suggesting that, in addition to reporting it, he should initiate his own investigation?

That is just plain silly and could even be construed as obstruction of justice.

FYI, The University Police Department is the law enforcement agency with the primary jurisdiction on the campus.

[Bag]

First off, my heart goes out to all of the kids that were abused and/or raped by Jerry Sandusky. These punishments and sanctions are a pinprick compared to what they have to deal with for the rest of their lives.

Is the punishment fair, maybe, maybe not. What I do feel is that this should be a lesson to any of those student/athletes, as well as any human being in any group that if you do something outside the group that causes much harm, it will harm your fellow people in the group who had nothing to do with it.

I do give Joe Pa a little bit of credit for being the only one to say that they could have done more. The problem with that is that he simply didn't. We all can wish for anything we want, but it takes a real man to act, to put a kid's welfare over the welfare of the institution.

As to the argument that the Freeh Report had an agenda.... OF COURSE IT DID! Every investigation has an agenda. The agenda is to find out what happened. I am not a trained investigator, nor am I a former head of the FBI. I think Freeh has more credentals than anyone on this message board to conduct an investigation.

Kids were harmed, enough said. If one of those kids were my son, I would not only want Sandusky punished, but EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO KNOW ABOUT IT, AND DID NOT GO TO STATE POLICE punished! If I have suspicion that someone is molesting a child, I would go to the cops. Why? BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

Joe Paterno's statue had the word "humaitarian" on it. What a great humanitarian putting the program ahead of an accusaion of abuse.

Now, I do also feel that Paterno is getting more than his fair share of blame. Curly, Graham, McQueary, and others deserve just as much of the blame. Because Paterno was the face of Penn State University, he will get more of the media attention, and more of the blame, which is wrong. He is not the only person to blame in all of this.

Penn State also propped themselves up as different than other universities, but when they fall, the fall is much harder. Ask any priest or TV evangelist how hard the fall is when they prop themselves up, and then get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

I am a Penn State grad, and I have no ill will towards the university (I did not go to the main campus, I am an Altoona Campus grad), however I do feel ill will towards the people who put the football program, and even Penn State University, ahead of abused kids. I don't care what Paterno did for the University. I don't care how many games the football team wins. They mean nothing when you have an opportunity to do good with the power you have. Yes, Paterno did good with his power and money in his past, but this means something much bigger.

I like most of your post except "I do give Joe Pa a little bit of credit for being the only one to say that they could have done more." He did not say he could've done more. He said "WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT, I wish I'd done more." Basically, if I knew then, what I know now...

And there still is NO proof whatsoever that he knew Sandusky was fucking kids. All he heard from McQueary is that Sandusky was showering with a kid. Which he reported to the AD, President and head of university POLICE.

As for the sanctions, the PSU haters should be thrilled. The sanctions are probably WORSE than the "death penalty." It all depends on if O'Brien can keep the players and new commits there. They'd be alright this season and next, but after that it will be a real struggle to be competitive.

I think it would have been nice for the NCAA to actually wait til all the facts are in too, but you have to please the media and the lynch mob. Right Rod Erickson? The Freeh Report has so many flaws that it's laughable, and the trials of Spanier, Curley and Shultz are still to come. And speaking of innocent victims, what about the current players, students, classes that might have to be dropped, intramural sports that may be cut, tuition rises, shop owners etc... Why punish innocent people for the acts of one man. What they should have done is make PSU donate half of their home game revenue for 4 or 5 years on top of the fine and be done with it. This was not a "football" scandal anyway.

[Banned]

What steps did Joepa do to find out if that young boy was raped, or harmed in any way. NONE.

Why would this notion even cross his mind

Because a child was reported to have been raped, by a man who is his friend, a man who was his Defensive Coordinator, his assistant coach, a man who was widely reported to be his eventual replacement as head coach, and had an office right next to his. A man who used his influence as a PSU football coach and who used PSU football facilities.

If someone reported that someone that I knew was raping children, (and that this was not the first report of this)m, I would report it to the police and try to find out if the child is OK.

[Bag]

What steps did Joepa do to find out if that young boy was raped, or harmed in any way. NONE.

Why would this notion even cross his mind

Because a child was reported to have been raped, by a man who is his friend, a man who was his Defensive Coordinator, his assistant coach, a man who was widely reported to be his eventual replacement as head coach, and had an office right next to his. A man who used his influence as a PSU football coach and who used PSU football facilities.

If someone reported that someone that I knew was raping children, (and that this was not the first report of this)m, I would report it to the police and try to find out if the child is OK.

One more time...

Joe was not told "a child was raped."

Also, just heard an interview with a Pa. State trooper. Even If Joe would have called to see how the investigation was going, he wouldn't have gotten an answer. Cops don't tell people details of investigations.

Clear enough?

PS, You gotta be real careful and have absolutely positive evidence to accuse someone of that. A false accusation could ruin someone forever.

[lonewolf]

What steps did Joepa do to find out if that young boy was raped, or harmed in any way. NONE.

Why would this notion even cross his mind

Because a child was reported to have been raped, by a man who is his friend, a man who was his Defensive Coordinator, his assistant coach, a man who was widely reported to be his eventual replacement as head coach, and had an office right next to his. A man who used his influence as a PSU football coach and who used PSU football facilities.

If someone reported that someone that I knew was raping children, (and that this was not the first report of this)m, I would report it to the police and try to find out if the child is OK.

Then you'd better have the person who reported it right there with you because the very second a police officer found out that you did not witness anything and you were calling them based on heresay, they'd flip their notebook shut and explain to you why they can't take your report.

I doubt that they would look too fondly on your trying to find the child either...chances are, if you did that, you'd end up as the one calling a lawyer.

[StumbleFingers]

Which he reported to the AD, President and head of university POLICE.

Just as an aside, I think Gary Schultz' role as head of university police is really overplayed. People make him out to be some sort of police chief with a blue uniform and badge. He wasn't that at all. He was Vice President of Business and Finance and Treasurer. He was the head bean counter. Here are some of the other divisions of Penn State that he was in charge of: Budget Office, Controller's Office, Business Services, Investment Management, and Human Resources.

He was a high level administrator who just happened to have Police Services under him on the org chart. Reporting and investigating potential crimes wasn't even remotely part of his job description or qualifications. He looked after the money. Nobody called Gary Schultz to report a crime.

[Banned]

Why would this notion even cross his mind

Because a child was reported to have been raped, by a man who is his friend, a man who was his Defensive Coordinator, his assistant coach, a man who was widely reported to be his eventual replacement as head coach, and had an office right next to his. A man who used his influence as a PSU football coach and who used PSU football facilities.

If someone reported that someone that I knew was raping children, (and that this was not the first report of this)m, I would report it to the police and try to find out if the child is OK.

Then you'd better have the person who reported it right there with you because the very second a police officer found out that you did not witness anything and you were calling them based on heresay, they'd flip their notebook shut and explain to you why they can't take your report.

I doubt that they would look too fondly on your trying to find the child either...chances are, if you did that, you'd end up as the one calling a lawyer.

Then you tell them that PSU had forbid this same friend from showering with young boys at PSU facilities. How many friends have you ever had that were forbid from showering with young boys????? How many friends do you have that shower with young boys????

Joepa should have got McQueary in the car with him and driven to the police station. He should have called his friend and asked him the name of the young boy he had in the shower. He then should have asked his friend what the hell was he doing in a shower all alone with a young boy. He then should had told his friend he was seen raping a young boy in those showers.

But the records and legacy was much more important.

I know the PSU degree is a major cause of myopia, but try to focus, the majority of the country sees this corruption the same way I do.

[f.sciarrillo]

'Penn State Avoided Death Penalty By Agreeing To Massive Penalty'

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2 ... aa-penalty

[HurricaneBob]

But it's ok when the Catholic church does it..............

[onegunguitar]

But it's ok when the Catholic chuch does it..............

Yea...what,like 3000 counts of it? Of course it's ok then. Maybe they should tear down their churches