Effect loop pedal idea

[CMOR]

Hey all,
I'm looking for some input on an idea I have for a loop pedal. This topic has been touched on in another thread.

Background: The new project I'm in requires some different sounds. Between the guitar and myself, we're trying to make this happen, without having a keyboard player(trying to keep it a 4 piece). There are times I would like the ability to keep a dry signal going to my amp and a wet signal going to, say, the board.

Here's my idea: a loop pedal that has 1 input, 1 effect loop, and 2 main sends. Send 1 would be to the amp and could be wet or dry via button. Send 2 would be either wet to board or no signal to board via button.
Here's a (very) rough sketch of what it could look like:


The Problem: I want the 2 buttons/sends to be independent of each other while using the same effect loop. Does this make sense? I've been in touch with Alex at American Loopers, but he's not quite grasping my concept. Maybe I'm not wording it correctly.

Is this at all possible? Without paying out the nose? Thoughts, comments, flaming for being a bass player that uses pedals, are all welcome.

Steve

[kayla]

i kinda understand what you are tryin to do. my opinion would be to check with Barry Steindel at guitarpcb.com ... hes local and could probably come up with something or tell you if its even possible. good luck

- kayla.

[CMOR]

I know, it's a little confusing right? I figured I'd throw it up here before I called Barry. I haven't talked to him in a while, I should check in, see how he's doing.

[lonewolf]

Does WET TO AMP ON/OFF actually mean FX LOOP ON/BYPASS to amp?

[CMOR]

Yeah, Jeff. Wet=with effect loop on, dry=loop off/bypassed.

[lonewolf]

yes its doable. If you want LEDs, you'll need a battery, so you may as well get an active direct box and use the guts out of it and use its battery for the LEDs too. You could just as easily build it all from scratch, but you'd end up spending almost as much.

You will need a DPDT switch for the FX Bypass switch. An SPDT will be fine for the DI.

[kayla]

cant you run the led's off the switch? i've used a board from barry that switches the led on with the on/off switch. i dont know if it would work the dpdt switch. its been a while since i've noodled with pedals.

[lonewolf]

cant you run the led's off the switch? i've used a board from barry that switches the led on with the on/off switch. i dont know if it would work the dpdt switch. its been a while since i've noodled with pedals.

Yes, you run the LEDs from the switch, but you still need a battery. The cleanest way to do this is with an SPDT and a DPDT switch or just two DPDT switches.

You can use one side of a DPDT as an SPDT to switch an LED.

[BloodyFingers]

You want a looper pedal with a asignable effects loop.

[lonewolf]

You want a looper pedal with a asignable effects loop.

Do they have any with a DI on/off?

[CMOR]

You want a looper pedal with a asignable effects loop.

Do they have any with a DI on/off?

That's what I've been wondering for a few days. Time to scour the Mass Consciousness...

[bassist_25]

Steve, have you thought about a parallel loop as a solution instead? You have the ability to mix both wet and dry signals. You can easily defeat the wet signal and you still only need one output when it's all said and done.

http://www.badgereffects.com/paraxv.html

http://www.woundedpaw.com/catalog/produ ... cts_id=141

It would also place you in more control of your own sound, and the wet signal wouldn't be at the mercy of a sound person who may not entirely understand what you're trying to do.

[CMOR]

Steve, have you thought about a parallel loop as a solution instead? You have the ability to mix both wet and dry signals. You can easily defeat the wet signal and you still only need one output when it's all said and done.

My Loooper actually has a blend function. Rocker switch to activate and a ratio knob. It's not bad, but it's not quite what I'm looking for. I feel like I lose a fair amount of volume and tone when I use it. I realize it's trying to push 2 signals from the same source through the same pipe, volume lose is going to happen.

That Badger looks cool, it has almost everything I want except the independent out.

I sent a message to Barry over on his GuitarPCB forum, but haven't heard back from him yet.

[bassist_25]

Two things come to mind, then, Steve. One is that you could get a parallel loop or use the looper you have already and, if the box is big enough, you could see if someone could wire up a defeatable female XLR with the switch.

The other solution, which unfortunately would take up some board space, would be to have a DI box at the end of the chain that's in the loop.

Also, have you talked to the cats at Loop-Master? I've never dealt with them, but I've heard really good things:

http://www.loop-master.com/

[CMOR]

Yeah, I've thought of a number of other ways to accomplish this idea. I have other pedals and a DI floating around. I could make something work if I needed to. But how cool is it say your pedal is custom and maybe the only of it's kind. Not knowing enough about what goes into wiring up a pedal, I didn't realize how out there this idea was.

I looked at Loop-Master's site, as well as a dozen others(priced from mild to ARE YOU F'ING KIDDING ME?). I've heard good things, too. Too bad they're running on a 3 month build time at present.

I threw something up on Barry's GuitarPCB forums. Maybe I'll get lucky there, whether it be knowledge, that my electronically lay brain can understand, or somebody looking for a challenge.

However it turns out, I'll keep you posted.

[ToonaRockGuy]

This is why I'm a drummer, LOL! Good luck with the project, Steve!

[CMOR]

I hear ya, Kevin. If memory serves, you don't think bass players should use pedals anyway. That makes me want to get more useless ones, maybe even dummy pedals just to make your head hurt.

Anyway, I got a rough schematic. Now I just have to know what parts to get to make it myself, or find someone who wants to try.



Any takers?

[lonewolf]

I think you want a phase inverting buffer after mixer 2 to generate the balanced out's inverted signal. You would also send the mixer out thru a non-inverting buffer (with the same propagation delay as the phase inverter) as the balanced out's hot signal.

You might want to consider using an impedance-matching transformer at that output too.

By "phase buffer", do you mean a "non-inverting buffer".

[CMOR]

Jeff,
The diagram was made up by somebody over on GuitarPCB, Barry's site. I think I understand what you're talking about. You're my go-to guy here on RP for all things electronic.

Wait 'til you see how I'm jimmy-rigging this idea for now. I'll take a pic tonight(hint:it includes my looper, an A/B/Y and a DI). Like I said before, just looking for a way to have it in 1 unit.

[lonewolf]

Here's a cool chip that will do your unbalanced-balanced circuit with only 2 capacitors. I'd use the DRV134, since its easier to do-it-yourself than the DRV135 surface mount version.

http://www.fivefish.net/diy/balanced2/default.htm

This circuit might be a buck or two cheaper, but lots more components:

http://www.fivefish.net/diy/balanced/default.htm

[ToonaRockGuy]

I hear ya, Kevin. If memory serves, you don't think bass players should use pedals anyway. That makes me want to get more useless ones, maybe even dummy pedals just to make your head hurt.

My head hurts from trying to make sense of all this stuff!! I set up my drums, pick up a piece of wood, hit the round, clear mylar thingie stretched over the drum, and it works. Simple enough for me.

Not a big fan of bass pedals but if that's your thing, cool. I am rather interested to see if you can pull this bit of electro-wizardry off, I must admit.

[lonewolf]

This is about the easiest way that I can think of. You may be able to get by without the splitter at the input...you can test that with your existing equipment and see if it works without a splitter. If there is too much signal loss with the passive splitter, you may need to get a signal distribution amp.

Here is a schematic for a really simple passive splitter:

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/as/as013.pdf

For this, you would need to get an active DI box with a thru circuit, a stompbox, 2 LEDs, 2 resistors, 2 dpdt switches and 5 1/4" jacks.

[lonewolf]

This guts in this box may do everything that you want if you can find a good spot to tap into it for the FX send and return.

Otherwise it will definitely work as the DI box and a 2nd one will definitely work as an active splitter if you need one. They are only $21 apiece.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI20.aspx

[CMOR]

I started source pricing to do this from scratch and came in around $35 for pretty much everything I think I need, including an enclosure. I've got a bunch of parts laying around that could help shave some of that cost down too.
Taking everything you and I discussed into account, I'm going to try that route.
I totally forgot about that Behringer unit. If I lose too much signal, I may grab one of those and incorporate the active splitter into the design.