New Tax ???

[tonefight]

I just saw on the news the are considering a new tax, suprising huh ? Its called the consumption tax ?

I'm not too sure what that is all about but I got a better idea " The Luxury Tax " Whenever you buy a Mercedes or a Jag or a vehicle that costs more than most peoples homes you pay a luxury tax. Whenever your home is worth 10 times the average persons home you pay a luxury tax. When you go on your 5th vacation of the year to an exotic location you pay a luxury tax.

What do ya think ? I should have got into polotics huh ?

[bassist_25]

Tony, you would be a great candidate for the Grill Party's election run in 2008. Mr. Foreman has been looking for a good political go-getter to spearhead the Grill Party's glorious rise to power.

The Grill Party - The party of the everyman and indoor grilling aficionados.

[Ron]

Yeah, and 30 cents tax per gallon of gas in PA is the 2nd highest in the nation. Most of the new taxes and tax hikes in 2005 have bipartisan support, so no single political party is to blame. Pittsburgh needs bailed out of financial trouble, and that's were a lot of our state tax dollars seem to be going. You have to remember also that the biggest business in PA is agriculture, and small farms are going the same route as mom-and-pop grocery stores. There's a lot of financial load right now, and those of us with jobs are the only one's there to bear it.

[tonefight]

Tony, you would be a great candidate for the Grill Party's election run in 2008. Mr. Foreman has been looking for a good political go-getter to spearhead the Grill Party's glorious rise to power.

The Grill Party - The party of the everyman and indoor grilling aficionados.

The Grill Party huh ? I think the Beer Party has a much better ring but we could work the indoor grill in there somewhere. I think I would have voted for George Forman if he ran last year.

[BBolinger]

There was a luxury tax during the 80s. It was on expensive jewelery and Yachts and things. The bad news was rich people stopped buying Yachts and the working people who made the things lost their jobs.
The consumption tax is actually a national sales tax and would be used to lower the income tax. It's a crappy idea but that is a whole nother story.

[becky]

you know, my husband pays in more than $4000 a year in fed. taxes, works 8 months and is laid off for 4 and the highest refund ever recieved was $832, we were lucky and made like $62 grand that year, only because I worked at the plant also, now for two years he has been working the same job, paying the same taxes and I have been pretty much loafing for the first year and this year opening the restaurant/bar. our income went down to about half of what it used to be, and I do understand that we make more than alot of other people but they still take 43% of his income every week! at that rate we should be providing a homeless shelter with enough food to feed 50 people a day, remodeling an entire home for a low income family, or providing health care or insurance for lower income families, I also understand that these extra dollars are funneled through the gov. to others, but I really would like to see some positive results from it for once! how the hell is anyone expected to put money away for the future if you don't have enough to live on and pay your bills in the first place? and now lets add some extra taxes with ridiculous names so they don't get the fact that we are continuing to rip them off, bet bill gates doesn't have to pay the $52.

[rreihart]

I would support a consumption tax or national sales tax, if it completely eliminated the federal income tax altogether. Give me all of the money (less local, state and school tax) I make and then tax me on spending. The people that spend the most money, pay the most taxes.

[bassist_25]

I would support a consumption tax or national sales tax, if it completely eliminated the federal income tax altogether. Give me all of the money (less local, state and school tax) I make and then tax me on spending. The people that spend the most money, pay the most taxes.

I like that idea a lot, though I don't know how well it would work. The thing that has to be kept in mind is when taxes are cut, spending also needs to be cut. As someone who leans more towards the libertarian side of things, I would like to see a lot of government agencies privatized. It woud reduce spending and promote a superior product through competition. Then again, I doubt a lot of overpaid government workers would be willing to give up their cushy jobs and fight it out in a market.

BTW, when I say I would like to see a lot of things privatized, I don't mean the school system. The only way I would want the school system privatized is if you could only pay through the voucher you recieve and not any "soft" money.

[KMFDM ROB]

A consumption tax, even getting rid of income tax would be bad. You may save a few cents, but in the end you're not really getting anywhere.

Here is why.

Let's put a 30% tax on everything, no matter what it is.
Let's get rid of income tax.

You now have more money to spend. Now, not just you is affected by this consumption tax. Everyone is. If I've got to spend more on things, so do you, last I checked Bill Gates put his pants on just the same as me. Prices skyrocket. Tax on a higher price is higher, simply because, 30 percent of 100 is 30, and 30 percent of 200 is 60. Simple math.

So while you save money on federal income tax, you infact lose money overall, because this consumption tax affects everything you spend, because obviously, you spend your money!

I could get into a much more technical explination, with actual financial figures, for the median income households (since I did this for a lady at work) and show you exactly what the deal is, however, by tthe time I typed it up, I'd have carpal tunnel, and would need to pay a consumption tax on my insurance co-pay.

[tonefight]

Bottom Line our government really sucks !!!!!!

[RamRod 1]

Take it easy Tony, there's worse goverments than us. (At least I think there are.)
Consumsion Tax, Federal Income Tax.............I've had 2 different lives. One self employed (Playing in a road band like "Tonefight" did, and "working for the man in which someone else deducted all my taxes for me. When a company deducts my taxes, they are basiclly fairly paid, but when I was quote "self employed", I could lie like hell just like anyone else who's in business and write off all kinds of bullshit to the point of paying none to next to none of any taxes. Now I was just a kid in my 20's with a van full of equipment living like a gypsy but I really don't think I was really paying quite my fair share compared to a guy working in the mines and remember, I was small potatoes compared to the big guys who really know how to get out of paying taxes.
Point being, there seems to be some element of fairness to a consumsion tax which treats everyone more as equals. I ain't saying that I'm sold on it yet, but I'd like to learn a little more.

[lonewolf]

This has been kicked around a lot the past 10 years or so as an alternative to the Federal income tax. Depending on what is taxed, it can be the most regressive form of tax I can think of. And of course, apply the old axiom: When you tax something you end up with less of it than if it was otherwise not taxed. So if you tax consumption, you get less consumption. Not good for a consumption based economy. Alan Greenspan frowns on this sort of tax.

My 1st choice would be to get the federal government out of all the unconstitutional businesses they are in...it would be about 1/4 the size it is now. With most of the bureacrats gone, they would not need the barely constitutional income tax that we have. Since they'd never give up that power without a revolution:

I would support a flat income tax with no deductions (except maybe charitable contributions or mortgage deduction) where a family of four would not pay a penny of tax on the first $50,000 income and then 18% or so on the amount above that.

Advantages:
1. Perfectly progressive
2. Eliminate fraudulant filings
3. No need for accountants or tax preparers
4. IRS would be cut drastically
5. Eliminates low-income citizens from the tax roles.

Disadvantages:
1. H & R Block, et. al. would be out of business.

[lonewolf]

Bottom Line our government really sucks !!!!!!

It sucks that the bureaucrats in D.C. have created a monster that is at least 4 times bigger than it should be according to the constitution.

Most federal programs (black holes) should be run by the individual states where we the people have a better chance of oversight.

[tonefight]

I would support a flat income tax with no deductions (except maybe charitable contributions or mortgage deduction) where a family of four would not pay a penny of tax on the first $50,000 income and then 18% or so on the amount above that.

Advantages:
1. Perfectly progressive
2. Eliminate fraudulant filings
3. No need for accountants or tax preparers
4. IRS would be cut drastically
5. Eliminates low-income citizens from the tax roles.

Yeah, that would be great. $50,000 seems a little high to pay no taxes but something like that would work. I don't see it ever happening though because the tax would be put on the people making big bucks and these people happen to be the ones with the most influence.

And ya know its not even myself I'm concerned about. I'm not doing great but I'm doing OK. But I know ALOT of people who aren't, I know alot of people that are working a full time job plus something part time and still barely have there head above water. I know alot of people that work full time and have health care issues and I just don't think its right. The consumption tax wouldn't help these people at all.

Its all about Greed and Power

[KMFDM ROB]

What needs to be done, is politicians need to no longer be career politicians. They should be working people, just like us.

Let me give you an idea, the Bush administration, everyone is a millionaire. Condeleeza has a freaking oil tanker named after her.

Do you think these people have ANY idea at all about the "working man"?

[lonewolf]

What needs to be done, is politicians need to no longer be career politicians. They should be working people, just like us.

Let me give you an idea, the Bush administration, everyone is a millionaire. Condeleeza has a freaking oil tanker named after her.

Do you think these people have ANY idea at all about the "working man"?

I think you'd have to go back to Harry Truman to find a working person like us in the whitehouse. He would have never made it to the whitehouse if not for FDR's passing.

I suppose you could count Reagan or Carter if you consider acting or inheriting a plantation to be "just like us".

[Ron]

I think you've hit it dead on Lonewolf.

Our federal gov't is way too large and for the most part does absolutely nothing to help the average American. It's core duty should be defense of the nation, and that's about it. Instead it acts as a middle man, taking the taxes that should go to the states and then feeding it back after globbing their robbers' share.

Here's also another thing that I don't understand at all:
Why does the federal gov't give tax breaks for people with children? In reality shouldn't those without children be given the break?