So ive recently dove into writing material for Punk Fiction. Was wondering if anyone uses a certain technique or does it just come naturally.
What seems to work for me is, i come up with a chord progression i like and start humming along until i find some words. I've had some people say they come up with words and then do the chord progression, i can't seem to do that. its more difficult for me.
i'd like to get more creative with song writing. so if anyone has any suggestions, i'd greatly appreciate it.
thanks!
- kayla.
Song Writing
Song Writing
`( f e n d e r)`
I usually just let things flow naturally. My only advise is don't force it. If you sit down to write and it's just not happening, put your guitar away for a while and come back to it later. It takes time to develop an ear for a good song, keep at it and you'll get there!!
Pour me another one, cause I'll never find the silver lining in this cloud.
-
Gallowglass
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 793
- Joined: Sunday Mar 05, 2006
- Location: Hlidskjalf
Kayla,
For me songwriting is an incredibly personal process. Initially, it's all about inspiration. In order for there to be a song, something has to give you the impetus to bring it into being. From that point on, the techniques should serve that purpose, and for me it's always different. Sometimes strumming through different chord patterns will inspire me to find the right feeling, or other times the lyrics will come first and then you have to find the appropriate chords. Knowing a lot of common song forms and progressions will help you get there quicker. A rhyming dictionary can really help you put the right word in the right place. There are some decent ones online, but it's better to pick one up in case inspiration strikes during a power outage. In the end, just keep working on it and trying different things. Songwriting is a craft, in order to get better at it, the best things to do are fill yourself with things that inspire you and keep honing your skills. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it.
For me songwriting is an incredibly personal process. Initially, it's all about inspiration. In order for there to be a song, something has to give you the impetus to bring it into being. From that point on, the techniques should serve that purpose, and for me it's always different. Sometimes strumming through different chord patterns will inspire me to find the right feeling, or other times the lyrics will come first and then you have to find the appropriate chords. Knowing a lot of common song forms and progressions will help you get there quicker. A rhyming dictionary can really help you put the right word in the right place. There are some decent ones online, but it's better to pick one up in case inspiration strikes during a power outage. In the end, just keep working on it and trying different things. Songwriting is a craft, in order to get better at it, the best things to do are fill yourself with things that inspire you and keep honing your skills. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it.
Buy one of those little portable tape players and carrying it around with you. You never know when words or a tune might come to ya just to forget it later when you have the time to write it down.
"The story of life is quicker than the blink of an eye. The story of love is hello and goodbye, until we meet again"! Jimi Hendrix
-
bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
In all projects I've been where original material has been concerned, the music - or at least the chord progression (i.e., the harmony) - has come before the melody and lyrics. Some people can write lyrics and then put them to music, which always impressed me, but it seems more difficult than the other way around. With that said, it's good to keep a note book handy to drote down ideas and phrases that come to you.
As far as writing bass parts, ideally, I like to have a recording of the primary framework. Most of the best stuff I write is done in my bedroom rather than the rehearsal room. So my preferred method of writing is to create a framework of an idea in the rehearsal room, get a decent recording even with just one mic, and then perfect things individually before coming back to refine everything. My good friend, Kent, can lay down a killer bass line off the cuff. I can lay a bass line off the cuff too, but I usually prefer what I come up with after I go off by myself (that didn't sound right
). I pour over note choice. I try to listen to what I'm playing with a "producer's set of ears" rather than a bass player just trying to write a cool riff.
As far as writing bass parts, ideally, I like to have a recording of the primary framework. Most of the best stuff I write is done in my bedroom rather than the rehearsal room. So my preferred method of writing is to create a framework of an idea in the rehearsal room, get a decent recording even with just one mic, and then perfect things individually before coming back to refine everything. My good friend, Kent, can lay down a killer bass line off the cuff. I can lay a bass line off the cuff too, but I usually prefer what I come up with after I go off by myself (that didn't sound right
). I pour over note choice. I try to listen to what I'm playing with a "producer's set of ears" rather than a bass player just trying to write a cool riff.This is excellent advice for just about anything you can work on in life. I know so many smart and talented people who move from project to project without ever completing anything.Jasaoke wrote:Get in the habit of writing a lot and completing the work. Many people, (myself included), get stalled waiting for the 'right' inspiration, and the piece stays incomplete. Anyone who's good at what they do has done it A LOT.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
-
Mysterytrain
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 509
- Joined: Monday May 26, 2008
- Location: Altoona
- Contact:
One option
So, I have been writing music for quite awhile. Of the many ways I write songs, here is one approach that has worked over and over.
I use a Dr. Rhythm DR880 drum machine which you can plug your guitar directly into it. Plus the effects aren’t that bad. Then out of the DR880 into a Digitech Jam Man looper pedal then out of the looper into my amp.
Play around with some chord progressions with the different beats or better yet create some chord changes then find a beat that compliments the style of your tune. (funk, rock, blues etc)
The 880 allows you to really dress up simple beats or create your own. It also has a customizable bass guitar feature that provides some bottom end to the tune.
Once you have created any combination of a verse, chorus, bridge and/or jam section you can then record each one separately into the looper.
Now, have fun! Jam solos over them, sing ideas over them, take them to practice with the rest of the band to spice up. Eventually you’ll have many loops to work with. During practice ideas will start popping out. Some ideas will become ingrained in your head so you may create lyrics on the spot, as you are driving, working or wherever. Keep a notebook with you at all times.
Not only does this approach help with songwriting, it’s also a tremendous help for guitar practice/playing.
Good luck,
I use a Dr. Rhythm DR880 drum machine which you can plug your guitar directly into it. Plus the effects aren’t that bad. Then out of the DR880 into a Digitech Jam Man looper pedal then out of the looper into my amp.
Play around with some chord progressions with the different beats or better yet create some chord changes then find a beat that compliments the style of your tune. (funk, rock, blues etc)
The 880 allows you to really dress up simple beats or create your own. It also has a customizable bass guitar feature that provides some bottom end to the tune.
Once you have created any combination of a verse, chorus, bridge and/or jam section you can then record each one separately into the looper.
Now, have fun! Jam solos over them, sing ideas over them, take them to practice with the rest of the band to spice up. Eventually you’ll have many loops to work with. During practice ideas will start popping out. Some ideas will become ingrained in your head so you may create lyrics on the spot, as you are driving, working or wherever. Keep a notebook with you at all times.
Not only does this approach help with songwriting, it’s also a tremendous help for guitar practice/playing.
Good luck,
You all have some awesome ideas. Where is Johnny Stevens?!! (probably on Reddit) You folks totally touched a nerve here. I f**kin love writing songs!
Kayla, aside from basic theory, understanding musical form will also benefit you greatly in your songwriting endeavors. With form, it's easy to "map" out where the song will go. It also helps to easily communicate the song ideas to other musicians, as well as drummers.
Most of my "writing" is done while I'm trying to go to sleep, or anytime that I am inclined to daydream such as when I'm driving. It puts those useless thoughts to work!
If you can't feel it, it isn't real. Life comes naturally, and if you put in the time, so will songwriting. Live and breathe what you write. Be vulnerable in your writing, and leave nothing off limits. The world can be a crappy place, but at least you can polish that turd with a song or 2! Most importantly, the hardest part is getting started so get to it.
Kayla, aside from basic theory, understanding musical form will also benefit you greatly in your songwriting endeavors. With form, it's easy to "map" out where the song will go. It also helps to easily communicate the song ideas to other musicians, as well as drummers.
Bassist_25 makes a great point here. It's all about perspective. Recording your ideas and listening back to them in a day/week/month will help you gain this perspective.I pour over note choice. I try to listen to what I'm playing with a "producer's set of ears" rather than a bass player just trying to write a cool riff.
Most of my "writing" is done while I'm trying to go to sleep, or anytime that I am inclined to daydream such as when I'm driving. It puts those useless thoughts to work!
Do what Dan says. Document everything.Keep a notebook with you at all times.
If you can't feel it, it isn't real. Life comes naturally, and if you put in the time, so will songwriting. Live and breathe what you write. Be vulnerable in your writing, and leave nothing off limits. The world can be a crappy place, but at least you can polish that turd with a song or 2! Most importantly, the hardest part is getting started so get to it.
thanks everyone for the great advice. i kinda keep a "notebook" with me, i use my phone when i get struck with some lyrics, i type them into my lil note section thing. ive been tryin to write for probably a good year or so, but not until recently was i able to complete a whole song. i think thats because i started learning some music theory and things are clicking a bit.
i gotta say, the guys in the band really inspire me too. our goal is to have some original material (possibly for battle of the acoustics). and since we placed that goal, they have been writing and so have i and we seem to be feeding off of each others enthusiasm. its a great feeling.
- kayla.
i gotta say, the guys in the band really inspire me too. our goal is to have some original material (possibly for battle of the acoustics). and since we placed that goal, they have been writing and so have i and we seem to be feeding off of each others enthusiasm. its a great feeling.
- kayla.
`( f e n d e r)`
I feel that songwriting is a personal thing, I know there are things that will slow you down or make it difficult, but I haven't found a "wrong" way to do it... except maybe to take the easiest way out of a issue when writing.
I like simple rhythms and structure, but I hate cheap rhymes (love/stars above, moon/June/spoon, etc.)
Sometimes songs DO come easily, but always question something that is easy to write. It's supposed to be kind of difficult, or everyone could do it. It's supposed to be YOU, too, so try not to say something someone else has already said really well.
Listen to everything around you. In conversation, listen for catch-phrases and cliches, they're catchy because people relate to them. Listen for beats in everything, entire genres were built on the rhythms of trains, industrial machinery, and horses hooves.
Write everything down RIGHT AWAY, because if you don't, you WILL forget it. That's something I can prove a hundred times. I've ruined a lot of other projects by stopping everything to work on a song, but it's way worth it, to me.
Feel it. It sounds stupid, but allow yourself to be moved. If a song is sad, cry. If it rocks, bang on the dashboard. People want to be moved, they listen to music hoping to take something away from it... you have to be familiar with what "gets" them, and the best way to do that is to let it "get" you.
You don't have to be deep. You can be, if you want, but sometimes people just want the hook. If you do go deep, it still has to be interesting to others, so don't make it all about you. Obviously, you'll write some very personal songs, and you should, but simply bear in mind that those are often more for personal catharsis than public consumption.
"See a guitar, pick it up." You can't be a good guitarist without practicing guitar, and the same holds true for songwriting. I keep a flat-top on a stand in my living room, and a classical in the TV room. If I see it, I play it more often, and when I noodle, I usually play bits of original music, not covers.
Art is meant to convey emotion. If it doesn't, it's not art. As you write, consider the listener's response to what you're writing. If you stray from that emotion, you're going the wrong direction., unless the song calls for changing emotions, as in a story song.
Don't expect everybody to like everything. If someone doesn't show much attention to something I've played, I play something else. No big whoop.
Here's something I'm just now learning: It's okay to like your own stuff. I'm in a period of creative boom right now, I'm writing some really nice material that people seem to like. When people say, "that's a great song," I sometimes say, "Yeah, it really is!"... not because of ego, but because I've put alot of work into it, and I really feel like I've done a good job of it. It's like being a carpenter, standing back and looking at the house you've framed, and you're good enough at carpentry to know you did a good job. An apprentice isn't so qualified to make that call, but a journeyman is. I've always felt a tinge of guilt when someone compliments a song, because inspiration often comes so easily (when it comes), but I'm getting over that guilt, because I had to do the heavy lifting. Besides, they're not ALL good, just the ones I'm confident enough to play out.
There's my tips for today, such as they are. As in all things creative, your mileage may vary. I just do what I do, and put myself out there, and anyone can do that. After you do it for awhile, it either works or it doesn't. My creative phase might end later today, for all I know. I try to work it while I can!
I like simple rhythms and structure, but I hate cheap rhymes (love/stars above, moon/June/spoon, etc.)
Sometimes songs DO come easily, but always question something that is easy to write. It's supposed to be kind of difficult, or everyone could do it. It's supposed to be YOU, too, so try not to say something someone else has already said really well.
Listen to everything around you. In conversation, listen for catch-phrases and cliches, they're catchy because people relate to them. Listen for beats in everything, entire genres were built on the rhythms of trains, industrial machinery, and horses hooves.
Write everything down RIGHT AWAY, because if you don't, you WILL forget it. That's something I can prove a hundred times. I've ruined a lot of other projects by stopping everything to work on a song, but it's way worth it, to me.
Feel it. It sounds stupid, but allow yourself to be moved. If a song is sad, cry. If it rocks, bang on the dashboard. People want to be moved, they listen to music hoping to take something away from it... you have to be familiar with what "gets" them, and the best way to do that is to let it "get" you.
You don't have to be deep. You can be, if you want, but sometimes people just want the hook. If you do go deep, it still has to be interesting to others, so don't make it all about you. Obviously, you'll write some very personal songs, and you should, but simply bear in mind that those are often more for personal catharsis than public consumption.
"See a guitar, pick it up." You can't be a good guitarist without practicing guitar, and the same holds true for songwriting. I keep a flat-top on a stand in my living room, and a classical in the TV room. If I see it, I play it more often, and when I noodle, I usually play bits of original music, not covers.
Art is meant to convey emotion. If it doesn't, it's not art. As you write, consider the listener's response to what you're writing. If you stray from that emotion, you're going the wrong direction., unless the song calls for changing emotions, as in a story song.
Don't expect everybody to like everything. If someone doesn't show much attention to something I've played, I play something else. No big whoop.
Here's something I'm just now learning: It's okay to like your own stuff. I'm in a period of creative boom right now, I'm writing some really nice material that people seem to like. When people say, "that's a great song," I sometimes say, "Yeah, it really is!"... not because of ego, but because I've put alot of work into it, and I really feel like I've done a good job of it. It's like being a carpenter, standing back and looking at the house you've framed, and you're good enough at carpentry to know you did a good job. An apprentice isn't so qualified to make that call, but a journeyman is. I've always felt a tinge of guilt when someone compliments a song, because inspiration often comes so easily (when it comes), but I'm getting over that guilt, because I had to do the heavy lifting. Besides, they're not ALL good, just the ones I'm confident enough to play out.
There's my tips for today, such as they are. As in all things creative, your mileage may vary. I just do what I do, and put myself out there, and anyone can do that. After you do it for awhile, it either works or it doesn't. My creative phase might end later today, for all I know. I try to work it while I can!
This is the beauty of writing Kayla. First you learn the rules.....then you learn how to break them. Music is art. It doesn't matter HOW you hold the pencil, it's what the picture looks like when it's finished that counts. There is no right answers.....there is no wrong ones. It's all a personal preference. Find out what works for you and start there. But just makes sure you don't write the same songs over and over. Mix up your techniques and feel free to explore. You can't treat music like a template.
A good example of of that is in one song we wrote, in the beginning riff, the drums would constantly progress. The guitars and bass stayed the same but with each bar, the drums had more and more going on building to what you'd assume would be a peak. At that 'peak' I shifted gears and dropped the tempo where you'd expect it to pick up. At the end of the song, the guitars and bass did the same thing as the beginning, and instead of another progression I did a regression. I played the beginning piece backwards starting with the the 'peak' and dropping it down with each bar. And right when you expected the song to get soft....I shifted gears again and kicked you in the "good n plenties' with an aggressive piece. It was really cool sounding and the song was full of surprises that you never expected by breaking the 'rules'. Some of the best music is written, when you think outside the box.
A good example of of that is in one song we wrote, in the beginning riff, the drums would constantly progress. The guitars and bass stayed the same but with each bar, the drums had more and more going on building to what you'd assume would be a peak. At that 'peak' I shifted gears and dropped the tempo where you'd expect it to pick up. At the end of the song, the guitars and bass did the same thing as the beginning, and instead of another progression I did a regression. I played the beginning piece backwards starting with the the 'peak' and dropping it down with each bar. And right when you expected the song to get soft....I shifted gears again and kicked you in the "good n plenties' with an aggressive piece. It was really cool sounding and the song was full of surprises that you never expected by breaking the 'rules'. Some of the best music is written, when you think outside the box.
well, i appreciate everyones input on song writing. i will never pass on good advice.
on another note, i found one stumbling block with writing. i wrote my own original song about a week ago. i love the song. but my problem is, im so awkward when sharing my material. i feel like its a part of me, and its hard to put myself out there. im thinkin its all in my confidence (which i have struggled with since i've started playing).
i did manage to record it last night with the guys. and they really liked what i wrote. so that boosted my confidence, but it was so difficult to get over the first initial play through of the song.
how do you guys get over that fear? that someones gonna hate it. or does that not go away?
thanks
- kayla.
on another note, i found one stumbling block with writing. i wrote my own original song about a week ago. i love the song. but my problem is, im so awkward when sharing my material. i feel like its a part of me, and its hard to put myself out there. im thinkin its all in my confidence (which i have struggled with since i've started playing).
i did manage to record it last night with the guys. and they really liked what i wrote. so that boosted my confidence, but it was so difficult to get over the first initial play through of the song.
how do you guys get over that fear? that someones gonna hate it. or does that not go away?
thanks
- kayla.
`( f e n d e r)`
That part's all in your head. Remember how nervous you were the first time you actually drove a car? On one hand, it was exhilarating and liberating, on the other hand, one false move and you're in the ditch. After a month or so of not being in ditches, you don't even think about it anymore.
Of course, eventually, everybody goes into the ditch.
You get back on the road, and keep driving, because eventually, everybody goes into the ditch.
Of course, eventually, everybody goes into the ditch.
You get back on the road, and keep driving, because eventually, everybody goes into the ditch.
Absolutely. Felix Kos told me once that if you don't make at least one mistake per song, you're not playing hard enough. I was gob-smacked. In my experience, there is no greater truth. You HAVE to put your heart out there, you HAVE to be vulnerable to failure, and play on the outside edge of your ability, or you'll be boring, and quickly. Dave Grohl touched on this in his now-viral Grammy speech.Jasaoke wrote:You COULD drive headlong into the ditch. Then you'll see that it isn't really all that bad. I didn't develop any real confidence or courage until I had thoroughly embarrassed myself several times.
You fall, you live, you learn how to recover.
If you've ever actually put a car in a ditch, every time you drive by that ditch afterwards, you look at that spot, and think, "Ha! No ditch today!"