Smoke Free Rock Bar

[Brian of the Clan Plush]

I'm probably gonna open up a can worms but....

I'm all for government not intruding on people's rights and I don't want any more of my personal freedoms taken away, but when I do something that causes physical harm to someone else, I expect the gub-ment to step in and slap me on the wrist. I don't wear a seat belt and I think Uncle Sam can just kiss my ass if he thinks it his job to protect me in a car crash - but people who don't wear seatbelts don't hurt other people. 2nd hand smoke kills people. Thats not propaganda, its medical fact. Tobacco-related disease is the NUMBER 1 cause of death in the US. More people die each year from tobacco related illnesses than AIDS, suicide, drugs and alcohol, fires and car crashes COMBINED (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention...look it up). At least a quarter of those people aren't smokers - they die from second hand smoke. This debate isn't about individual rights, its about occupational health and safety. If you're a bartender or a waitress, you have a right not to die from your job. And don't give me any crap about "if they don't like the smoke they can go find another job", cause that argument makes about as much sense as "if you don't like the LCB hassling musicians for noise violations, sell your guitar and go work at Burger King.

[Mo Lester]

No way! I am gonna dress up like purple flaming cowboy and play guitar for Burger King!
No, (although I would surely take their money), seriously though, Brian has it about right. I hate coming home stinking like stale cigs, knowing that I second-hand smoked about a carton. Yeah, I smoked for a long time and pretty much have a handle on being an in-denial quitter, I still like the taste of (fresh) tobacco, and a few beers greatly weakens my willpower to smoke some O. P.'s. So I drink as little as possible. But, all in all, I would applaude loudly a smoking ban in bars, because regardless of what studies say what about what, it's a nasty atmosphere, but until I can make a living producing records or playing venues too big for it to matter, I guess this is where I am. I put value in my singing voice, don't want to lose it, and I would like to be here as long as I can for my kids and family, and not have my life shortened by the habits of others.
....................and that's all I have to say about that,

[Quail Whale]

i think a lot of people stay home & just do heroin instead of going out anymore.

[Mo Lester]

i think a lot of people stay home & just do heroin instead of going out anymore.

unless they are out at a bar breathing in second hand smoke looking for heroin

[bassist_25]

. I don't wear a seat belt and I think Uncle Sam can just kiss my ass if he thinks it his job to protect me in a car crash

I would venture to guess that seatbelt laws have more to do with protecting the insurance companies than protecting individual people.

[Quail Whale]

[I would venture to guess that seatbelt laws have more to do with protecting the insurance companies than protecting individual people.
]

no way...or they'd have lobbied harder against the helmet law. [/quote]

[becky]

you know, I lost my singing voice from smoking and it still wasn't enough to make me quit, there are still songs that I can sing but my range and pitch has greatly diminished. I think if they banned smoking in all of the bars truly alot more people would come out more often. with all of the extra taxes and surcharges that the gov. has added to cigarettes we should all quit and really cause a stir. when the gov. and cig companies start losing money from all of us pin heads (that just don't get the fact that our cigarettes are killing other people too) they are going to have to look elsewhere to get that money back, so hey, alcohol is addictive lets tax that some more, and it is deadly to others that have not been drinking because of the innocent people killed in the car crashes. believe me I am a cig addict big time, because even now that the Dr has said the big "C" word I still haven't listened and quit, if they made my bar non smoking so be it, I honestly think I would have just as many people in there and maybe more because my non smoking friends would come in more often. personally, I have to quit but for those that refuse to please remember to be kind to those that do not smoke or understand the extent of your need and addiction to them. some of us need to smoke and some of us enjoy smoking, my husband enjoys a good shit in the morning too, but he doesn't do it at the dining room table, so remember to be kind and walk away.

[byndrsn]

Becky,

Since you can't hear my inflection on here, please don't think I am being rude!!! I am being sincere!

Why don't you make your bar a Non-Smoking place if you think you may actually do better business. It is your place after all. Seriously - you may start a trend.

I still don't think the government should have any right to tell bar owners that they have to be "Smoke Free".

As far as seat belts vs. helmets - the statics regarding both of these safety devices as so far apart that you really can't even compare the two. Although, I don't feel the government has the right to tell you that you have to wear either. And, as far as the helmet and seat belt issue with insurance company's - again, very hard to compare because your auto insurance does cover certain medical problems, but on a motorcycle - there is NOTHING covered on your MC insurance. You must rely on normal Health Care providers.

But, hey while we are throwing these safety items around, how about Air Bags?? Do you realize that the statics that convinced the government to mandate air bags were falsified? Yeah, the woman that was in charge of the study "felt in her heart" that they would make the world safer and fudged the nubmers so that the legislation would get passed. A couple years ago (after air bags caused a lot of deaths) she felt guilty and confessed everything to the Washington Post. Amazing!!!

Urbs

[Mo Lester]

the Dr has said the big "C" word I still haven't listened and quit,

The Doctor called you a what?

]my husband enjoys a good shit in the morning too

Yeah, I enjoy a good poop any ol' time o' the day.....'tis good for the soul!

[Mo Lester]

Do you realize that the statics that convinced the government to mandate air bags were falsified? Yeah, the woman that was in charge of the study "felt in her heart" that they would make the world safer and fudged the nubmers so that the legislation would get passed. A couple years ago (after air bags caused a lot of deaths) she felt guilty and confessed everything to the Washington Post. Amazing!!!

WOW! That pisses me off!

must be a Washington thang

[lonewolf]

I'm probably gonna open up a can worms but.... This debate isn't about individual rights, its about occupational health and safety. If you're a bartender or a waitress, you have a right not to die from your job. And don't give me any crap about "if they don't like the smoke they can go find another job", cause that argument makes about as much sense as "if you don't like the LCB hassling musicians for noise violations, sell your guitar and go work at Burger King.

You're right. Its not about individual rights. Its about private property rights. OSHA doesn't have a legal leg to stand on unless tobacco is made a controlled substance. This means that, until the politicians have the balls to severely regulate tobacco, OSHA rules won't hold up in court. Personally, I'd like to see the politicians get enough balls to just outlaw tobacco instead of all this pussyfooting around.

As it stands, if you are a bartender or a waitress, you have the right to find another job and that's about it.

This makes as much sense as: if you don't like the LCB hassling musicians for noise violations,

1. change the law
2. find places that don't get hassled
3. move to another state

After this latest weather front, I'm about ready for #3

[tonefight]

I hate coming home stinking like stale cigs, knowing that I second-hand smoked about a carton. Yeah, I smoked for a long time and pretty much have a handle on being an in-denial quitter, I still like the taste of (fresh) tobacco, and a few beers greatly weakens my willpower to smoke some O. P.'s.

Dude , the last time I saw you out you bummed about 5 of my smokes and a few off other people. So Quit your bitchin !!!! you must not hate it all that bad !!!!

[Ron]

Personally, I'd like to see the politicians get enough balls to just outlaw tobacco instead of all this pussyfooting around.

I think the last thing we need is more prohibition. More taxes, tobacco road checks, tobacco sniffing dogs, and tobacco funded terrorists.

[Mo Lester]

I think the last thing we need is more prohibition. More taxes, tobacco road checks, tobacco sniffing dogs, and tobacco funded terrorists.

I cuncur

[becky]

you know the seatbelt in a trans am was what broke my sisters neck in two places! it crushed her pelvis so bad, that to this day she has a deformed hip from it that makes her very self concious, she was stuck in the car for so long in that seat belt that the anti freeze that was leaking under the dash burnt her feet to the point that she had to have skin graphs. she was a mess, they told us to come and make funeral arrangements, this happened right out side of palm beach gardens hospital, at shift change, so a neurosurgeon just happened to witness the accident and knew her neck was broke and did all the right things to keep her alive on the side of the road, she spent 8 weeks in icu and another 3 weeks in a regular room, and if you could see some of the pictures of every step of her recovery it would make you sick to your stomach, because she wore her seat belt!!!! wow, I went from smoking to the freakin seat belt in a hurry didn't I? as far as my bar going to non smoking, well if they tell me I have to then I will, but I will always have a designated smoking area for those that are going to smoke. now as far as the helmet laws go, if you are 16 or under I think you should wear the fucking helmet! at that age you are too prone to showing off for your buddies and friends and always an accident waiting to happen, I do not want my daughter sitting in a wheel chair drooling on herself and unable to speak from a head injury. I personally feel that it is the choice of any adult to wear one or not, most adults are responsible enough not to wear one, but kids are stupid enough as it is, let alone after they bang their heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lonewolf]

Personally, I'd like to see the politicians get enough balls to just outlaw tobacco instead of all this pussyfooting around.

I think the last thing we need is more prohibition. More taxes, tobacco road checks, tobacco sniffing dogs, and tobacco funded terrorists.

That response makes little sense to me in this context. We are talking about more prohibition here. The questions is:

Would you rather see a patchwork of demand-side tobacco prohibitions and regulations that trample and crush private property rights or one supply-side prohibition that is perfectly legal?

These are the only choices that reality offers.

A non-smoking bartender who works in a smoke filled bar, knowing full well that bartenders work in smoke-filled bars has probably made a poor career choice. May I suggest Banzai Culturist?

[Mo Lester]

I hate coming home stinking like stale cigs, knowing that I second-hand smoked about a carton. Yeah, I smoked for a long time and pretty much have a handle on being an in-denial quitter, I still like the taste of (fresh) tobacco, and a few beers greatly weakens my willpower to smoke some O. P.'s.

Dude , the last time I saw you out you bummed about 5 of my smokes and a few off other people. So Quit your bitchin !!!! you must not hate it all that bad !!!!

Nu Uh! I bummed one or two and stole the rest when you were on stage! and I told you I have moments of weakness! that was one of them! and I'm not bitchin, I'm expressing my feelings..............

[becky]

I think we should all just smoke pot and get rid of the cigarettes! thats it, I am opening a claucoma bar!!!!!!! prescription medication will be handed out at the door upon payment of cover charge. Dr. potato head is on duty!

[songsmith]

Best thread in months. What if somebody tried a smoke-free NIGHT? You could test the waters and see what would happen, and you'd only lose one evening's worth of profit if it tanked. If you made a big deal out of it, the must-have smokers either wouldn't show, or would just go outside like at work and such.
The part that scares me about the smoke situation is that it doesn't bother me as much lately. That means either people are smoking less, or I've gotten more immune to it... and that isn't a good thing.
One of the things about addictions is that they cross social lines, and smoking (and alcoholism for that matter) is acceptable to rich and poor, and every age group. Although making tobacco illegal wouldn't stop it's use, it would result in the loss of billions in revenue for retailers, big multi-national corps, and of course, the FedGov. 'Taint happenin', fellers.

Again, excellent thread... good topic and good discourse.---->JMS

[Ron]

Would you rather see a patchwork of demand-side tobacco prohibitions and regulations that trample and crush private property rights or one supply-side prohibition that is perfectly legal?

These are the only choices that reality offers.

I'll take the first option, because it is can possibly work.
Supply side prohibition creates a black market. If there is a demand, the supply will always be there. We tried that with alchohol and it didn't work. With marijuana, the gov't knew that supply side prohibition wouldn't work, so they reduced demand by using misinformation and scare tactics. If they hadn't done that, pot wouldn't be a schedule 1 drug in the US today. Like tobacco, prohibited drugs like cocaine, meth and heroin reduce their own demand over time by killing their users.

I am confused by what you mean by "demand side prohibition". Maybe I'm misinterpreting your intent.

[Brian of the Clan Plush]

What if somebody tried a smoke-free NIGHT? You could test the waters and see what would happen, and you'd only lose one evening's worth of profit if it tanked. If you made a big deal out of it, the must-have smokers either wouldn't show, or would just go outside like at work and such.

Several places in State College are doing just that (I know the G-Man and the Arena, formerly Last Cowboy, both offer smoke-free nights....and there's a big push by a Penn State student group and University Health Services to get more. See some links below...

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/20 ... dit-01.asp

http://www.sa.psu.edu/uhs/ohpe/smokefree.cfm

[DMFJ03]

All this talk makes me want to go have a smoke.

[Mo Lester]

All this talk makes me want to go have a smoke.

Yeah, with my left hand
nice new colors there, Funkmasa

[DMFJ03]

nice new colors there, Funkmasa

Thanks! I have to fight with www.cooltext.com for about an hour to get it to work for me.

Yeah, with my left hand

It's that second hand smoke that always gets me, because my second hand always has a smoke in it!

[Hannibal]

MY biggest concern is the "no farting" clubs. I would just die if I had to hold it till I got out the door. Really though, I would go out to hear more bands, but I can't stand the smoke filled rooms. To each their own. I've played in bands [it's been a while] when you couldn't see halfway across the room for the smoke, and your gear was ripe for weeks.