I love bein a musician.

[Slothkill]

I'm no musician but I love to play an instument. First with the chemistry of the people I have the grace to play with, second, those who have the passion of music.
I don't think that bands make a influence on "the Scene" the people who pay money to see you do. A good band draws a crowd, and money, a scene is created.
I would pay money to see a Badwrench, Front, Grimm, show.
To me being a musician is doing what drives you, friends, family, perfect tone. A artist is driven by money, meglomania, and sanitary napkins with their hot wings.

[lonewolf]

I'm sorry, Jeff, but I don't share your pessimism. A couple of bands that I've been in, namely Banditos and Gin-N-Juice, started from nothing with no "name" members, and were successful with hard work, promoting, and putting on quality shows......

I'm not saying that there is no cronyism in our area, because there certainly is. But (to Kayla, now) if you are willing to put in the effort and not expect instant results, over time success will happen if you have the goods. You have to be willing to do what it takes, and to pay the price. If you are a cover band, you gotta play the songs people want, even if you detest them. If you are an original band, you have to be willing to play to mostly empty rooms and get your music out there as much as possible. Covers can have quicker success, and originals can be more rewarding due to giving birth to that music.

It's all in how you look at it. But if you are negative about it, you'll never find the positive in anything.

I don't buy that--at least not in Blair County. We did that for 6 years. We had the highest quality musicians, highest quality equipment, highest quality show--you know--a REAL show with a full lighting system, backdrop and a lighted up logo overhead--added entertainment value. We did all the promo that I mentioned, short of putting a gun to people's heads. We had a top-notch dance rock repertoire and were tight with 100 mostly danceable songs that non-dancer types wouldn't mind listening to as well. At least until we had to start working in new drummers {grrrrrr, bites tongue}.

Yes, I remember both those bands...I wouldn't exactly say they were "no names", but if you recall, I went to see them several times.

So, how did you like our show? Any suggestions for improvement?

We had lots of nice crowds in places like Huntingdon and Johnstown who loved the show and danced their ass off all night. (why do i have to keep repeating this--is there something not clear). In Blair County, even the regular barflies didn't show up.

The only thing that I didn't get to try was playing in between two Blair county "name" bands at a multi-band event and announcing our name 5 times between songs and pointing up at the logo. Sadly, these events almost always occurred on days that we were booked. You see, we did play a hell of a lot...just not in Blair County. Ah, they probably wouldn't have let us put our logo and backdrop up anyway.

[lonewolf]

well, i dont know about all that. im just enthusiastic about our band, and excited to play. maybe that will produce more gigs than bein bitter about the local "scene".

So Kayla, How did you like our show? Any suggestions?

[lonewolf]

Great encouraging post Jeff. It takes work Kayla and not just from one person. It is very frustrating at times but it depends on what you want to get out of it. I don't see anyone from the area making a killing, contrary to what some may believe. I have been to quit a few shows of more well known locals that the seats are pretty empty. Shit we have played for crickets a lot too. B

How did you like our show? Any suggestions?

[lonewolf]

I'm no musician but I love to play an instument. First with the chemistry of the people I have the grace to play with, second, those who have the passion of music.
I don't think that bands make a influence on "the Scene" the people who pay money to see you do. A good band draws a crowd, and money, a scene is created.
I would pay money to see a Badwrench, Front, Grimm, show.
To me being a musician is doing what drives you, friends, family, perfect tone. A artist is driven by money, meglomania, and sanitary napkins with their hot wings.

How did you like our show? Any suggestions?

[Jasaoke]

I think a lot depends on your own personal measure of "success". Many people are happy just to make music in front of people. This can be easily accomplished at backyard parties and small venues, and if you're willing to haul your stuff everywhere, you can stay quite busy and even make a few bucks in the process. If you plan on hanging out in a bar anyway, then free drafts and a few dollars is a bonus.

If you want to make money, then you have to compromise and make fans. This goes to the cronyism and nepotism and is why the music 'business' is as ugly as it is. For people to spend any money on music, they have to like it and like you.

It really doesn't matter how talented you are; venue owners care about how many paying customers come out. You could be juggling cats and if people come out and spend money, you're set. Your focus needs to be on "entertainment", not "performance". If the people who see your shows have fun, they'll come back.

[lonewolf]

You could be juggling cats and if people come out and spend money, you're set.

You might just have something there! I guess they'd have to be de-clawed though.

Edit:

Well, maybe not...the extra danger would add to the entertainment! Maybe even shed a little blood! Yeah, blood! That's it!

Nothing sells like blood...except maybe sex.

BTW, how did you like our show? Any suggestions?

[StStanley]

If there's anything that I've learned by moving back to this area its that the local music "scene" doesn't have a fucking thing to do with talent!

Why don't you cite some examples of this "talent-less scene"? Because the last time I checked, there were a LOT of talented people active in the area scene.

It's also been my experience that some people complain about a scene, and others participate in said scene in whatever way possible. One thing that I have learned in over 20 years of performing live is that you're NEVER done paying dues. I know that I'm not.

I never said it was talent-less, I also wouldn't go as far as to say "a lot" either. Because of the "democratization" of music thru karaoke and cheap equipment, there are probably 100 bands around here that would never have gotten out of the garage 35 years ago. It seems today that everybody is a musician, whether they are or not. Because of this, I'm not going to give anybody bad, sugar-coated advice. Telling them to go to college is much better advice than glad-handed, backslapping circlejerkery that could lead them to a life of squalor.

The one thing I did find out through all this is a confirmation that karma does not exist.

Its also been my experience that some people don't have a clue about me or all the things I've contributed to the "scene" since I moved back here 13 years ago, or since I literally started paying dues when I first joined the musicians union here 37 year ago. Clueless as to how I am happy to help anybody out for very little or nothing in return.

YOU REMEMBER OUR SHOW, DON'T YOU?

No, I don't remember your show. I've never heard your group perform. Most people here on Rockpage probably haven't seen our group, and I'm okay with that because it's not our demographic. If I relied solely upon my peers as a fan base, I would have stopped performing years ago.

Why does it matter if we know you or remember your show? The chairs need to be full of customers and fans, not musicians.

You're right about the "democratization" of music, but it's happening everywhere so get used to it. So, in your expert opinion, who are some of these 100 bands that wouldn't have made it out of the garage 35 years ago, and why does it matter today?

You speak of entertainment value and equipment like they are the secret weapons to success. Maybe if you're building a cruise ship. That certain "Je ne sai quoi" is where most good art comes from. That and the suffering of the artist. You complain a lot. Go make some art! Seriously.

[lonewolf]

You speak of entertainment value and equipment like they are the secret weapons to success. Maybe if you're building a cruise ship. That certain "Je ne sai quoi" is where most good art comes from. That and the suffering of the artist. You complain a lot. Go make some art! Seriously.

So entertainment value doesn't matter if you entertain? You forgot to mention high quality musicians...I guess musicianship doesn't matter either? Art? Yeah, right....cover band art. ROFLMAO...if you say so.

I dismissed the delusions of original grandeur 25 years ago when I decided to grow up and make a fortune doing things a lot more useful and artistic than ditties.

I hate to break it to ya, but ditties ain't art...its just ditties

[nakedtwister]

Great encouraging post Jeff. It takes work Kayla and not just from one person. It is very frustrating at times but it depends on what you want to get out of it. I don't see anyone from the area making a killing, contrary to what some may believe. I have been to quit a few shows of more well known locals that the seats are pretty empty. Shit we have played for crickets a lot too. B

How did you like our show? Any suggestions?

Sorry to say I didn't. A suggestion would be to not bash other area musicians for having fun. Just sayin'

[lonewolf]

Great encouraging post Jeff. It takes work Kayla and not just from one person. It is very frustrating at times but it depends on what you want to get out of it. I don't see anyone from the area making a killing, contrary to what some may believe. I have been to quit a few shows of more well known locals that the seats are pretty empty. Shit we have played for crickets a lot too. B

How did you like our show? Any suggestions?

Sorry to say I didn't. A suggestion would be to not bash other area musicians for having fun. Just sayin'

Exactly who did I bash? I'm sure I will have to take a lot of flak for my opinions, and I really don't fucking care, but seriously, who did I bash?

[StStanley]

So entertainment value doesn't matter if you entertain? You forgot to mention high quality musicians...I guess musicianship doesn't matter either? Art? Yeah, right....cover band art. ROFLMAO...if you say so.

I dismissed the delusions of original grandeur 25 years ago when I decided to grow up and make a fortune doing things a lot more useful and artistic than ditties.

I hate to break it to ya, but ditties ain't art...its just ditties

Some of these "ditties", as you call them, have changed the way that people think and perceive the world around them because someone cared enough to notice and document via these "ditties". Some of these "ditties" were performed by artists that had little or no musical ability. I love to break it to you because this IS art! Reinterpretation of life in the world around us. I say so because I am an artist! You, on the other hand, sound like you are whining, but maybe that is your strong point. I don't know so I can't really say...

Enjoy that fortune because it doesn't sound like you were very fulfilled at your day job if you had to give up musical dreams to feed the machine, or maybe you just weren't very fulfilled as a artist so you got a day job?

Some of us have chosen art and music as our livelihood and measure our "fortunes" through artistic merit. Did you think that you dreams would just be lying in wait for you with open arms when you got off the gravy train? It's work, work, work at ALL levels of artistry (just like your day job was) so put a little more work into your art now that you're retired. Sounds like you have the work ethic thing down so let the artistic struggles begin. Or have they already and that is what we see written here?

Exactly who did I bash? I'm sure I will have to take a lot of flak for my opinions, and I really don't fucking care, but seriously, who did I bash?

You didn't bash anyone in particular, but you did bash a scene that isn't up to your liking and standards that YOU apparently set 35 years ago. Good day, sir.

[ToonaRockGuy]

I have seen both the Lonewolf and Verge shows, and I must say, I thought they were quite excellent. The light show was top notch, and the musicianship was outstanding. (I just could never quite wrap my head around the whole solo guitar with sequenced parts, though, I kept looking around for the curtain with the rest of the band behind it, LOL!)

Honestly, Jeff, I don't know why you've been struggling with The Verge here in Blair County, I think it's a kickass band. It may be something as simple as just bad luck (or negative consequences, I can't remember your saying, but I know that you don't subscribe to luck, LOL), or perhaps your standards for success are much higher than the rest of us, given your success in the financial world and being able to really enjoy life at a young age while we are still working. I don't know, man, all I know is that you are one hell of a guitarist, a good dude, and you should be playing out every Saturday. I'm not arguing with you at all, I do think that you make some valid points in this discussion (which has been totally hijacked, LOL).

[lonewolf]

I have seen both the Lonewolf and Verge shows, and I must say, I thought they were quite excellent. The light show was top notch, and the musicianship was outstanding. (I just could never quite wrap my head around the whole solo guitar with sequenced parts, though, I kept looking around for the curtain with the rest of the band behind it, LOL!)

Honestly, Jeff, I don't know why you've been struggling with The Verge here in Blair County, I think it's a kickass band. It may be something as simple as just bad luck (or negative consequences, I can't remember your saying, but I know that you don't subscribe to luck, LOL), or perhaps your standards for success are much higher than the rest of us, given your success in the financial world and being able to really enjoy life at a young age while we are still working. I don't know, man, all I know is that you are one hell of a guitarist, a good dude, and you should be playing out every Saturday. I'm not arguing with you at all, I do think that you make some valid points in this discussion (which has been totally hijacked, LOL).

Thanks for the kind words Kevin. You know where I am coming from and you should know that this is not directed at the musicians; its the attitude of the "citizens" and several of the venues. I do get tired of seeing "support local music" in my face all the time when only a few of us actually do.

In keeping with the theme of the thread:

Right now, no. I don't love bein' a musician...

I am having a lot more fun tearing my and others' guitars apart.

Now will somebody please get these subs out of my pantry?

[lonewolf]

Oh, and the scientific term for luck is "probability and outcome".

[cucuplex96]

It don't matter if you have an amazing light show and you are a fantastic guitar player.. You can be the best guitar player in the world, and never move anyone. It's all about the Hook and the Melody. You can play shit all night that no one has ever heard, and have em up dacin as long as you use melodies and hooks that work every time. It's that MAGIC, some people have it, some people don't. Have any of you listened to a piece of music that wells up the corner of your eyes, cause you can feel that shit? That is that magic, that sound, that melody. Your not gonna translate or receive that feeling, covering Crazy Bitch, or some gay Nickleback song that starts with the words.. " I like your pants around your feet". That shit has no class at all... If you wanna move people, play something that will move em.. Like " Josie's on a vacation far away", or "High cost of Low livin" by the Almond Brothers.

Here some advice to young or new players.. Don't play garbage. Don't play songs like "cumbersome" and "Can't you see".. If I hear these songs one more freakin time.. Try and play stuff that isn't just made up of 2 or 3 power chords.. Anybody can play "When I come around" or "Machine head" by Bush.. Try and show some taste!

[kayla]

Here some advice to young or new players.. Don't play garbage. Don't play songs like "cumbersome" and "Can't you see".. If I hear these songs one more freakin time.. Try and play stuff that isn't just made up of 2 or 3 power chords.. Anybody can play "When I come around" or "Machine head" by Bush.. Try and show some taste!

i agree 100% with your whole post. Punk Fiction is tryin to play stuff that isn't heard too often. we are in the process of really finding who we are as a band. of course, we do have some tunes that are often over played. but i must say, i freakin hate playin the beatles.

- kayla.

[Slothkill]

I've seen a couple of your shows as well and I thought the musicianship was top notch, I even went as far as watcing some of your posted videos. I think the only thing you needed was dancing girls in a cage suspended from the ceiling.
HOw bout band names that draw a crowd, "Barenaked Ladies" I bet the band name " Two Lesbians and a stick of Butter" would draw a crowd. And if it was Two Lesbians and a stick of butter they could play "cant you see" and "Freebird" all night to aa packed house

[lonewolf]

I've seen a couple of your shows as well and I thought the musicianship was top notch, I even went as far as watcing some of your posted videos. I think the only thing you needed was dancing girls in a cage suspended from the ceiling.
HOw bout band names that draw a crowd, "Barenaked Ladies" I bet the band name " Two Lesbians and a stick of Butter" would draw a crowd. And if it was Two Lesbians and a stick of butter they could play "cant you see" and "Freebird" all night to aa packed house

Thanx much (Jules?...maybe 'Tood?...doh! can't remember which one is slothkill--i qualify for my ex-company's pension next year, lol)

...lolling at the promo suggestions. How about "doubleheader & the lesbians?"

[Slothkill]

One that would not work is "two guys and a Double Neck"
btw this is Jules, appreciate you remembering my name. Tood is Panzefaufast..... Love that guy!

[P MAC]

Kayla;
Stay positive, stay focused and stay in touch with the joy of spirit which has found you through your music.

I respectfully recommend the following book to all musicians regardless of status or skill level;
Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo. The book is in print and usually in stock at the local big box book store.

This book has been a source of inspiration to me. I believe that in many ways the author has found a way to simultaneously encourage the spirit and discipline the ego. ( the Zen thing I guess ) Gifts that many of us should accept gracefully.

It has been my experience that consumers of my musical product over the years are open to creativity, competence, and genuineness of spirit.
Even the sweetest candy can be received as bitter if not offered with a loving spirit.

[Craven Sound]

I enjoy being around musuicians as both a sound engineer and novice drummer. Does that count?

[Mysterytrain]

I respectfully recommend the following book to all musicians regardless of status or skill level;
Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo. The book is in print and usually in stock at the local big box book store.

I love that book!

[sstuckey]

Kayla disregard any of the negative comments that are destroying what once was a positive happy thread. You just keep at it!! That's all you need to do. You keep at it and keep plugging away and the pieces will fall into place. I was told a billion times "what you need to do to succeed in this business is...." And repeatedly I gave that person the middle finger. You do what you do and fuck everyone else. If they like you they'll come see you...if they don't oh well. There is no FORMULA to success other than a strong will. You have that!! And that's all it takes. Anyone that wants to argue that point can come talk to me. When we first started I can't begin to tell you how many bands told us "you can't play that heavy metal shit...you need to do top 40". How exactly do you listen to that kind of advice? Especially when most of it came from bands who play in front of 12 people...half of which were their girlfriends!! If anyone here actually had the formula to success....they wouldn't even be here. So listen to all the positives.....ignore all the negatives....and most importantly DO WHAT YOU LOVE.....without compromise. Don't ever give up and through perseverance you will find your own level of success.

[songsmith]

I respectfully recommend the following book to all musicians regardless of status or skill level;
Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo. The book is in print and usually in stock at the local big box book store.

I saw that at Ollie's once... I should have bought it!