Acoustic Gigging Questions

[kayla]

I am curious as to what people use acoustically for gigs. do you run your guitar right into the pa system or do you have an acoustic amp ?

and if you run through a PA system do you use the onboard electronics or do you use an acoustic pick up? i've been thinkin of gettin a dean markley pup.

which is better in your opinion and why?

thanks!!

- kayla.

[LHSL]

I am curious as to what people use acoustically for gigs. do you run your guitar right into the pa system or do you have an acoustic amp ?

and if you run through a PA system do you use the onboard electronics or do you use an acoustic pick up? i've been thinkin of gettin a dean markley pup.

which is better in your opinion and why?

thanks!!

- kayla.

If you have an adequate PA to play on, the acoustic amp is probably unnecessary and unwanted. From a soundguy's prospective, I prefer a clean signal from a quality pickup over the direct out of an acoustic amp (or putting a microphone in front of an acoustic amp).

As for pickup vs. on-board electronics: I think most guitars that have on-board electronics already have a pickup or some sort of microphone inside them. The quality of these varies widely though.

I actually prefer using a high quality condenser mic on a stand for acoustic guitar. It sounds much better and allows the guitarist to use distance from the mic for inflection on his or her playing. A lot of that preference (for players) comes down to style though.

The biggest advantage sound wise is freedom to EQ the microphone as needed. Internal mics or pickups that are physically attached to the guitar can transmit vibration from the guitar through the pickup. This is especially bad when the guitar resonates with a particular range of frequencies from the room/PA combination, and can cause horrendous feedback. Typically, several notches in the EQ are required to mitigate this. Though, I realize the "high quality condenser" solution can be expensive.

In the end it mostly comes down to preference. One thing to note, if you do end up using the on-board electronics/pickup or a 3rd party pickup that you attach separately, be sure to use a direct box to connect it to the PA system if the output of said electronics or pickup is not balanced or if the pickup provides a line level output and you are connecting it to a microphone input.

[lonewolf]

I agree with LHSL about using a high quality condenser mic like a Neumann KM84 on an acoustic for the absolute best sound...when you are playing in a band and have a sound guy running things for you.

If you want to walk into a bar with a few items in hand, set up and start playing, the best choice is a good guitar with integrated active electronics straight into the PA. The electronics in a good acoustic guitar are matched to that model and will serve you better than adding a good pickup to a good guitar. Adding a pickup will give you the more feedback problems than a guitar with integrated active electronics. Plus, you will have a line level signal that will match up better with line inputs on lower-cost PAs.

The key word here is good.

If you are in a band and just have a few passages or songs with acoustic guitar, you might want to consider getting a good acoustic guitar simulator for your strat. This is what I do. The best one that i have used is the one in the Boss VF1 effects processor (same as the GT5). Boss also makes 3 "AC" pedals that are excellent.

[kayla]

ah thanks for the advice! its an all acoustic type of band. soo i'm thinkin from the what i read the best is to use my onboard electronics into a direct box and into the pa system?

- kayla.

[lonewolf]

ah thanks for the advice! its an all acoustic type of band. soo i'm thinkin from the what i read the best is to use my onboard electronics into a direct box and into the pa system?

- kayla.

It depends.

If you are going to be within 30' of the mixer and the mixer has 1/4" line inputs, a guitar cable will work fine.

If you will be farther than 30' away from the mixer OR the mixer only has XLR balanced inputs (mic inputs), you should use a direct box.

[kayla]

gotcha! thank you!

- kayla.

[Mysterytrain]

Hey there, if you are gigging by your self or with one other person then I would go with one of these or similar.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peavey-Ecoustic ... MyEbayBeta

Usually I'm not wild about anything Peavey but this blew me away.
Beautiful sound for a solo or duo set up. (2 guitars/1 mic)

I used to play acoustic. Just hummin' and strummin' (no loopers) and never had an issue with this amp not being loud enough. Plus you can control feedback extremely well with the controls (and a handy rubber feedback buster helps too).

In my opinion, it seems acoustic amps retain the sweet acoustic guitar sound better than a pa system. Not to mention hauling around a mixer and 2-4 speakers.

BUT... if you are gigging with a band/drummer then I'm not sure what would be best.

[LHSL]

ah thanks for the advice! its an all acoustic type of band. soo i'm thinkin from the what i read the best is to use my onboard electronics into a direct box and into the pa system?

- kayla.

It depends.

If you are going to be within 30' of the mixer and the mixer has 1/4" line inputs, a guitar cable will work fine.

If you will be farther than 30' away from the mixer OR the mixer only has XLR balanced inputs (mic inputs), you should use a direct box.

I would still recommend a direct box in either situation.

The output impedance for most guitar (acoustic or electric) pickups is quite high and will vary widely with frequency. A quality active direct box (one that runs off of phantom power or a 9V battery) will better match this impedance to the input of a mixer.

1/4" inputs on mixers aren't typically meant for high impedance, they just happen to often use the same connector.

It may work without a direct box, and 80-90% of the time it will. But when it doesn't and there is some nasty buzz, hum or other interference you'll be left scratching your head. Not something you want minutes before a show starts.

A Countryman Type 85 or a BSS AR133 is like $130. We'll worth it, and they'll both last you a lifetime. Another, slightly pricier option would be a Radial J48.

[floodcitybrass]

I played an acoustic gig once per week for about 3 years.

It was a 3 - piece: Female singer, Piano, and Acoustic guitar.

The set up time was 12 minutes.
Here was the equipment:

1) Mixer - http://www.alesis.com/imultimix8usb (smaller than a laptop computer). Has decent built in fx and you can record/play right into an ipod.

2) Vocal mic - Shure beta 87 (needs phantom power)

3) Guitar - Martin D16 with integrated Fishman electronics. No directbox used. It sends out a balanced signal.

4) Roland D600 keyboard

5) Speakers: 2X QSC K10 powered speakers. One behind us as a monitor/main and one in front on 1 side. Both were pointing in a X Cross pattern.
Our volume was low enough that we did not encounter feedback.
We could also adjust the volume of each speaker as well.

[BloodyFingers]

If you are going to gig by yourself and with the band get a amp. Not all places have a pa unless you have your own. If you have your own pa just use it.

You need to think of all the places you might play....
1. Can your pa handle bigger places ?
2. Is your pa small enough for smaller places ?
There maybe some shows where you can use your amp for a personal monitor.
Most acoustic amps have a built in line out which you can run to the pa.

all I am saying is a amp may come in handy once and a while. Depending on where your playing....

[BloodyFingers]

BTW, I would use your onboard electronics. Add on pick ups always seemed to be more sensitive and feedback easier to me. I ran sound alot these past 10 years so its just from past experiences what I'm telling you.

90% of the time I just ran acoustic guitars thru the pa...

[lonewolf]

ah thanks for the advice! its an all acoustic type of band. soo i'm thinkin from the what i read the best is to use my onboard electronics into a direct box and into the pa system?

- kayla.

It depends.

If you are going to be within 30' of the mixer and the mixer has 1/4" line inputs, a guitar cable will work fine.

If you will be farther than 30' away from the mixer OR the mixer only has XLR balanced inputs (mic inputs), you should use a direct box.

I would still recommend a direct box in either situation.

The output impedance for most guitar (acoustic or electric) pickups is quite high and will vary widely with frequency. A quality active direct box (one that runs off of phantom power or a 9V battery) will better match this impedance to the input of a mixer.

1/4" inputs on mixers aren't typically meant for high impedance, they just happen to often use the same connector.

It may work without a direct box, and 80-90% of the time it will. But when it doesn't and there is some nasty buzz, hum or other interference you'll be left scratching your head. Not something you want minutes before a show starts.

A Countryman Type 85 or a BSS AR133 is like $130. We'll worth it, and they'll both last you a lifetime. Another, slightly pricier option would be a Radial J48.

Check the specs on the mixer or just try it 1st Kayla. If the 1/4" line inputs are unbalanced tip/sleeve and have an input impedance of 20Kohms & higher, (as most powered and small mixers suitable for acoustic acts are), you won't need to spend all that money on a direct box.

They are nice to have, but often unnecessary. If you run into the situation where the mixer is pro-sound level stuff, more than likely, the owner will have one for you to use.

[floodcitybrass]

I'm not a fan of using a guitar amp on small acoustic acts (1 to 3 people).

I found that the sound on stage does not sound close enough to the house sound because you are not compensating amp on stage.

I have heard so many small acoustic acts where the balance between instruments in vocals is way off.

I like running the monitor to be an exact copy of the main mix thus why I put a main speaker behind me and avoid using an onstage guitar amp.

[P MAC]

very subjective situation. In a perfect world, I would also prefer a great guitar with a high end mic, ( I have had good success with a shure KSM27)but.......many live situations are less than perfect. Many pros will use a mic for front of house and a pickup for a monitor signal. An acoustic amp can be an asset, but the ones that sound good to me start at about $1000. I have had good success with B-Band and K&K acoustic pickups. I prefer the B-Band if I need to cut through a big mix and the K&K for solo/duo work because to me it is more natural sounding. I also use an LR Baggs para acoustic preamp/DI. Reality is that the quest for great acoustic sound/tone is just as elusive as with any other (bass, electric guitar, etc) and is a combination of good technique and good gear and a little trial and error. By the way, Jimmy Page used a Barcus Berry pickup duct taped to his Martin for his live performances with Led Zepplin!
Have fun!

[Jasaoke]

lately, I'm going with a 'who REALLY cares?' philosophy. Aside from engineers and other musicians, no audience member will truly appreciate the differences and subtleties of any high-end solution.

Besides, even the best mic in the world will sound craptastic when run through a lesser quality: mic pre, EQ, amp, speaker, what's that hum?...

A good factory intalled pickup on a quality guitar, and keep a DI Box in your case, you can plug-and-play anywhere. (I like passive DIs cause you don't kneed to buy a battery.)