I caught briefly something about Sheetz starting to scan your license when you buy cigarettes, I believe some liquor stores are begining to scan your license when ya buy booze. Whats next are we gonna have our licence scanned when we go to a bar or club ? When we buy a round of drinks. I somehow think this data will somehow turn around and be used against us someday. Like the guy that told his doctor he had a few drinks a day and then he lost his licence. If we buy too much booze are they gonna come take your license ? When ya go for a government job are they gonna look to see if you smoke and drink ?
Ya know I'm proud to be among the average american but I think America in general is going somewhere I don't want it too, so I'm starting to loose touch with " Proud to be an American".
Losing our Privacy
Losing our Privacy
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.
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Mistress_DB
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Sunday Jan 23, 2005
- Location: In dire need of a spanking
I remember a night at Glenns Place in Claysburg where I was asked for my license at the door. I found it odd since it's pretty rare that anyone assumes I'm under 21. (average age I'm guessed at is 25) But they ran my license through this little machine after they checked my birthday.
I'm used to being carded out of state and at major rock arenas but it kinda sucks if we're gonna get scanned at every club in town. I don't think it's anyones business what we do on our time off but our own.
I'm used to being carded out of state and at major rock arenas but it kinda sucks if we're gonna get scanned at every club in town. I don't think it's anyones business what we do on our time off but our own.
The person below me enjoys a good spanking.
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ToonaRockGuy
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 3091
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 17, 2002
- Location: Altoona, behind a drumset.
From what I understand, the reason for the scanning is to prevent false IDs from being used. The magenetic strips contain all the information on your license specially encoded for those scanners/readers. Recent fake ID's are so good that even law enforcement types are getting fooled. Not that any of this is okay, but, that's my guess on things...
Dood...
This may be very true but still , its eventually gonna be used against everybody who doesn't conform to what some government natzis view as proper.ToonaRockGuy wrote:From what I understand, the reason for the scanning is to prevent false IDs from being used. The magenetic strips contain all the information on your license specially encoded for those scanners/readers. Recent fake ID's are so good that even law enforcement types are getting fooled. Not that any of this is okay, but, that's my guess on things...
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.
Get ready for a long and scary post:
This is all in response to legislation just passed last Thursday by the House of representatives: H.R. 418, the REAL ID Act of 2005.
If this bill passes the Senate, then DL's and state ID cards will contain a smart chip with encrypted biometrics on board, or something similar. The bill passed the House by a vote of 261 to 161. Of the 161 "Nays" 152 of them were by Dems. Of the 261 "Yeahs", 219 were by Reps.
A summary of the bill reads: To establish and rapidly implement regulations for State driver's license and identification document security standards, to prevent terrorists from abusing the asylum laws of the United States, to unify terrorism-related grounds for inadmissibility and removal, and to ensure expeditious construction of the San Diego border fence.
The San Diego border fence is complete except for the last 3 miles, which is delayed because it is supposed to run through 2,500-acre wildlife refuge and several native archaeological sites. If H.R. 418 passes, the legislature currently protecting the wildlife refuge becomes irrelevant.
It's interesting that one of the major supporters of this bill is the NACS (National Assoc. of Convenience Stores).
Here is their take on the issue: "Convenience stores throughout the country sell age-restricted products such as alcohol and tobacco and need to rely on state driver's licenses and ID cards to ensure that they do not sell to minors. There have been dramatic advances in the technology needed to read driver's licenses and ID cards and making all states incorporate a workable technology is a very achievable goal. Taking this step will allow the convenience store industry to invest in new technology to help avoid sales of age-restricted products to minors." In addition, NACS noted that convenience store owners would also benefit from the immigration provisions of the legislation that serve as a primary motivator for the Chairman to move the bill.
Here's a response to the bill by Texas House Rep. Ron Paul (Republican):
I rise in strong opposition to HR 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to make us safer from terrorists who may sneak into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make us more secure. It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty.
What is wrong with this bill?
The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states include certain minimum identification standards on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.
Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However, any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary.
Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that “the federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification such as driver’s licenses.” So they admit that they want a national ID but at the same time pretend that this is not a national ID.
This bill establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” this bill creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and Mexico!
This bill could have a chilling effect on the exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights. It re-defines "terrorism" in broad new terms that could well include members of firearms rights and anti-abortion groups, or other such groups as determined by whoever is in power at the time. There are no prohibitions against including such information in the database as information about a person’s exercise of First Amendment rights or about a person’s appearance on a registry of firearms owners.
This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver’s licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID would mean that the federal government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of the day and night.
There are no limits on what happens to the database of sensitive information on Americans once it leaves the United States for Canada and Mexico - or perhaps other countries. Who is to stop a corrupt foreign government official from selling or giving this information to human traffickers or even terrorists? Will this uncertainty make us feel safer?
What will all of this mean for us? When this new program is implemented, every time we are required to show our driver’s license we will, in fact, be showing a national identification card. We will be handing over a card that includes our personal and likely biometric information, information which is connected to a national and international database.
H.R. 418 does nothing to solve the growing threat to national security posed by people who are already in the U.S. illegally. Instead, H.R. 418 states what we already know: that certain people here illegally are "deportable." But it does nothing to mandate deportation.
Although Congress funded an additional 2,000 border guards last year, the administration has announced that it will only ask for an additional 210 guards. Why are we not pursuing these avenues as a way of safeguarding our country? Why are we punishing Americans by taking away their freedoms instead of making life more difficult for those who would enter our country illegally?
H.R. 418 does what legislation restricting firearm ownership does. It punishes law-abiding citizens. Criminals will ignore it. H.R. 418 offers us a false sense of greater security at the cost of taking a gigantic step toward making America into a police state.
This is all in response to legislation just passed last Thursday by the House of representatives: H.R. 418, the REAL ID Act of 2005.
If this bill passes the Senate, then DL's and state ID cards will contain a smart chip with encrypted biometrics on board, or something similar. The bill passed the House by a vote of 261 to 161. Of the 161 "Nays" 152 of them were by Dems. Of the 261 "Yeahs", 219 were by Reps.
A summary of the bill reads: To establish and rapidly implement regulations for State driver's license and identification document security standards, to prevent terrorists from abusing the asylum laws of the United States, to unify terrorism-related grounds for inadmissibility and removal, and to ensure expeditious construction of the San Diego border fence.
The San Diego border fence is complete except for the last 3 miles, which is delayed because it is supposed to run through 2,500-acre wildlife refuge and several native archaeological sites. If H.R. 418 passes, the legislature currently protecting the wildlife refuge becomes irrelevant.
It's interesting that one of the major supporters of this bill is the NACS (National Assoc. of Convenience Stores).
Here is their take on the issue: "Convenience stores throughout the country sell age-restricted products such as alcohol and tobacco and need to rely on state driver's licenses and ID cards to ensure that they do not sell to minors. There have been dramatic advances in the technology needed to read driver's licenses and ID cards and making all states incorporate a workable technology is a very achievable goal. Taking this step will allow the convenience store industry to invest in new technology to help avoid sales of age-restricted products to minors." In addition, NACS noted that convenience store owners would also benefit from the immigration provisions of the legislation that serve as a primary motivator for the Chairman to move the bill.
Here's a response to the bill by Texas House Rep. Ron Paul (Republican):
I rise in strong opposition to HR 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to make us safer from terrorists who may sneak into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make us more secure. It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty.
What is wrong with this bill?
The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states include certain minimum identification standards on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.
Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However, any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary.
Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that “the federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification such as driver’s licenses.” So they admit that they want a national ID but at the same time pretend that this is not a national ID.
This bill establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” this bill creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and Mexico!
This bill could have a chilling effect on the exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights. It re-defines "terrorism" in broad new terms that could well include members of firearms rights and anti-abortion groups, or other such groups as determined by whoever is in power at the time. There are no prohibitions against including such information in the database as information about a person’s exercise of First Amendment rights or about a person’s appearance on a registry of firearms owners.
This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver’s licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID would mean that the federal government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of the day and night.
There are no limits on what happens to the database of sensitive information on Americans once it leaves the United States for Canada and Mexico - or perhaps other countries. Who is to stop a corrupt foreign government official from selling or giving this information to human traffickers or even terrorists? Will this uncertainty make us feel safer?
What will all of this mean for us? When this new program is implemented, every time we are required to show our driver’s license we will, in fact, be showing a national identification card. We will be handing over a card that includes our personal and likely biometric information, information which is connected to a national and international database.
H.R. 418 does nothing to solve the growing threat to national security posed by people who are already in the U.S. illegally. Instead, H.R. 418 states what we already know: that certain people here illegally are "deportable." But it does nothing to mandate deportation.
Although Congress funded an additional 2,000 border guards last year, the administration has announced that it will only ask for an additional 210 guards. Why are we not pursuing these avenues as a way of safeguarding our country? Why are we punishing Americans by taking away their freedoms instead of making life more difficult for those who would enter our country illegally?
H.R. 418 does what legislation restricting firearm ownership does. It punishes law-abiding citizens. Criminals will ignore it. H.R. 418 offers us a false sense of greater security at the cost of taking a gigantic step toward making America into a police state.
... and then the wheel fell off.
F@@@@@@@CK all of that Crap!
that is just what you said, Ronny, SCARY!
Some crazy ass BIBLICAL times are coming, SOON by the sounds of this poop!
I am quickly being made a believer that the 911 attacks were an inside job to scare us into giving up our freedoms to fall under COMPLETE control of EVIL MUTHA FUKAS who need to have it ALL,
make no mistake, reading that post of yours, Ron, I feel it coming.
there are some EVIL EVIL people in control of what's been happening in the world. Not to say its G.W. Bush, shit, he's just a puppet, but something is very shady about his whole deal, and there is no doubt that some very intense stuff is going to occur in our lifetimes, my friends!
I did a lot of reading on a network of sites the other night, hours and hours, It continually blew my mind, with documentation and evidence about some stuff that really shook me! it was pretty heavy and went a little bit out there, but it will make you think differently about our government and its relationship with the rest of the World. that's all I can really say without leading you off in the wrong direction about it.
just go thru some of it and see if it opens your eyes at all
I'll put the links on another post when I digg'em up
that is just what you said, Ronny, SCARY!
Some crazy ass BIBLICAL times are coming, SOON by the sounds of this poop!
I am quickly being made a believer that the 911 attacks were an inside job to scare us into giving up our freedoms to fall under COMPLETE control of EVIL MUTHA FUKAS who need to have it ALL,
make no mistake, reading that post of yours, Ron, I feel it coming.
there are some EVIL EVIL people in control of what's been happening in the world. Not to say its G.W. Bush, shit, he's just a puppet, but something is very shady about his whole deal, and there is no doubt that some very intense stuff is going to occur in our lifetimes, my friends!
I did a lot of reading on a network of sites the other night, hours and hours, It continually blew my mind, with documentation and evidence about some stuff that really shook me! it was pretty heavy and went a little bit out there, but it will make you think differently about our government and its relationship with the rest of the World. that's all I can really say without leading you off in the wrong direction about it.
just go thru some of it and see if it opens your eyes at all
I'll put the links on another post when I digg'em up
CUNTS will be CUNTS.
here's the one that I read ALL of, it is a little long, but when I followed some links to other stuff that this author wrote and/or researched I was to say the least, enlightened.
So go ahead and take a little time to check it out, it will twist you, it's not a Bush bashing thing, it just talks about the whole ball of wax
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/boeing.htm
So go ahead and take a little time to check it out, it will twist you, it's not a Bush bashing thing, it just talks about the whole ball of wax
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/boeing.htm
CUNTS will be CUNTS.
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esa
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 09, 2003
- Location: I am the Who when you say "Who's there?"...
- Contact:
Why not? It worked for Slipknot!tonefight wrote:And I guess my next Tattoo will be a barcode huh?
People = Shit
(if I'm wrong on that, don't beat me Jae!)
Anyways... I was at Peter C's once and they had a card scanner... the following week I was at Uriahs Pub with a few college friends and they scanned my liscense. I made the comment of...."Uh...what are you doing?" Their answer was the following:
1) To see if you had a record. If you were in a fight there before, they will have it on record and you are barred (no pun intended) from entering the bar for "X" amount of time. Or banned for all eternity.
2) The scan goes straight through a police data base. It covers their ass if you are a fellon on the run or have lost your liscense due to DUI's.
3) When they have something big going on, they have your address and info and can add you to a mailing list! Yes! Now when you get junk mail, it might have come from the local watering hole or if they sold your info to the telemarketers...
Uriah's isn't the only place that does this. I look at our liscenses today and they remind me of the military liscense one of my ex's had. He was navy. It had everything on it. I mean everything. His C.O. could tell him where he was that week. That scares me. I mean... I doubt G.W.B. cares that I go to the bar, the liquor store, sheetz for gas/smokes/food, adult world, wal*mart, the mall and Mc D's "X" amount of times a week... but I'd bet his minions would care that I used my visa to buy a semi-automatic off of ebay.
So, in a way this is a good thing. We have nothing to really worry about if they're just watching. Don't get me wrong, I don't like anyone butting into my private anything unless they are invited in. But, I think I'd rather have Big Brother keeping an eye out for the illegals that should be out of here or the people that are buying weapons bigger than hunting guns or pistols. Better to have a loose eye on everyone than to have another 9-11 happen.
Right now I doubt that they will do anything about controlling how much alcohol you buy or bars you go to. But ask me that again in five years and I'll tell you differently.
That's my mixed .02
~*~Esa~*~
I'll be the one left standing behind you, looking the other way as you glance back at what you've lost.
I'll be the one left standing behind you, looking the other way as you glance back at what you've lost.
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Craven Sound
- Platinum Member
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Imgrimm01
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- Location: Jaw deep in your ASS !!
- Contact:
I hAVE
UMMM I have NO Opinion,, It's all happy Lovey and Good !! Whatever "My government says is best for me is best for me".
I'm glad I didn't have to fight in a war, I'm glad I didn't get killed or kill somebody, I hope my kids enjoy the same lack of manhood
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lonewolf
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6249
- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
- Location: Anywhere, Earth
- Contact:
I don't like the feds mandating anything on the states, even if it makes sense to standardize data formats.
The states need to severely restrict the data that can be read from ID cards.
The ID's are not the problem here. I don't have any problem with standardization of the data format on a laminated card. It had to happen sometime and there's no sense in having 50 different data formats. Of course, if a state decides they don't want it, they shouldn't have to take it. In some cases, a card like this could save your life.
What I have a problem with is the scanners and the databases they are tied into. A scanner at a bar or Sheetz should only be capable of verifying ID and age for the purchase of restricted products, period. All other information should be off limits and they sure as hell shouldn't be sending info to a database. They need to severely restrict the type of data that can be scanned by merchants, etc. There are very few places where scanners should be tied in to what is really scary:
The states need to severely restrict the data that can be read from ID cards.
The ID's are not the problem here. I don't have any problem with standardization of the data format on a laminated card. It had to happen sometime and there's no sense in having 50 different data formats. Of course, if a state decides they don't want it, they shouldn't have to take it. In some cases, a card like this could save your life.
What I have a problem with is the scanners and the databases they are tied into. A scanner at a bar or Sheetz should only be capable of verifying ID and age for the purchase of restricted products, period. All other information should be off limits and they sure as hell shouldn't be sending info to a database. They need to severely restrict the type of data that can be scanned by merchants, etc. There are very few places where scanners should be tied in to what is really scary:
This bill establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” this bill creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and Mexico!
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
That is the view that scares me. I'm sure you share that same opinion with a majority of the country. We give up freedom out of fear? How un-American is that?esa wrote: ...Better to have a loose eye on everyone than to have another 9-11 happen.
The problem is that the Sept. 11th hijackers all had multiple valid ID's and were in this country legally. This whole ID charade would NOT have changed what happened that morning.
I don't believe in any of the conspiracy theories that the gov't wanted or caused the events on 9/11 to happen. I just believe that the feds dropped the ball by ignoring the warnings and want to hide that fact. The link that Mo Lester posted is very intriguing to me though. I know a guy in Germany, a mechanical engineer who designs parts for airplanes, including Boeing landing gear. He has studied all of the pictures and footage of the Pentagon attack, and he claims that there is no way that a Boeing jumbo jet hit that building, there just isn't enough wreckage.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
... and then the wheel fell off.
Its funny this came up. This same topic popped up during discussion over the weekend by a patron when I was helping out at a local establishment who was short a doorman and was scanning ID's & stuff. It wasnt the first one I had to use. There was one at City Limits when I worked there too. All I ever saw when we scanned the ID's was the persons age.. thats it. And trust me - out of boredom I sat and played with the thing with my own IDa few times. None of the ones I have used or ever seen being used have ever been connected to anything other than an an electrical source - if that. The one was only ever on a charger if it wasnt with the doorman. I know the 2 I have used dont get plugged into any kind of data sending device. The one was even screwed down to the podium so it wouldnt go anywhere.
How is big brother getting the data that is supposedly being scanned from these little buggers?
How is big brother getting the data that is supposedly being scanned from these little buggers?
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lonewolf
- Diamond Member
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- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
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- Contact:
Yep, Danette, that's the way it ought to be and if they are legislating the cards, they should also legislate who can use what data for what purpose. There is no legitimate reason for the feds to get detailed data from a state drivers license database.Danette wrote:Its funny this came up. This same topic popped up during discussion over the weekend by a patron when I was helping out at a local establishment who was short a doorman and was scanning ID's & stuff. It wasnt the first one I had to use. There was one at City Limits when I worked there too. All I ever saw when we scanned the ID's was the persons age.. thats it. And trust me - out of boredom I sat and played with the thing with my own IDa few times. None of the ones I have used or ever seen being used have ever been connected to anything other than an an electrical source - if that. The one was only ever on a charger if it wasnt with the doorman. I know the 2 I have used dont get plugged into any kind of data sending device. The one was even screwed down to the podium so it wouldnt go anywhere.
How is big brother getting the data that is supposedly being scanned from these little buggers?
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
You are correct.tonefight wrote:
And I guess my next Tattoo will be a barcode huh?
esa wrote:
Why not? It worked for Slipknot!
People = Shit
(if I'm wrong on that, don't beat me Jae!)
Jae Smith
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
www.facebook.com/rootandthefifths
www.twitter.com/rootfifths
www.pabands.com
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
www.facebook.com/rootandthefifths
www.twitter.com/rootfifths
www.pabands.com
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esa
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 09, 2003
- Location: I am the Who when you say "Who's there?"...
- Contact:
Okay, humor me one on this.Ron wrote:That is the view that scares me. I'm sure you share that same opinion with a majority of the country. We give up freedom out of fear? How un-American is that?esa wrote: ...Better to have a loose eye on everyone than to have another 9-11 happen.
The problem is that the Sept. 11th hijackers all had multiple valid ID's and were in this country legally. This whole ID charade would NOT have changed what happened that morning.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
People who have written, rented, borrowed, downloaded or etc for the bible...i mean the Anarchists' Cookbook, have been kept a close eye on. Why is that. Some owners are hackers who, back in the day, wanted to share some stepping stones. This helped todays hack's get better, stronger, faster...we have the technology! Some owners just really wanted to know how you can make a bomb using fertilizer, a pair of sneakers and a pencil. Add a little amonia and you're ready for business.
Some owners wanted to know how to make bullets. How to make a working make-shift grenade. How to do M.T. Cocktails. How to whatever.
Some owners were just curious. Some were bored. Some ended up writing the second, third, fourth and fifth editions of this.
I know if you go to the library, there are flagged books in there.
Big brother is watching...why is it such a big surprise when they say they wanted to go to use liscenses?
I mean... I don't want people butting in constantly to my personal life, but if someone is buying 4 or 5 components for a bomb...in one setting....at one store... and the next day there is a blow up in that same town... I'd like to think that people would have known about it...
::peeks:: who's behind that curtain!?
~*~Esa~*~
I'll be the one left standing behind you, looking the other way as you glance back at what you've lost.
I'll be the one left standing behind you, looking the other way as you glance back at what you've lost.
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Quail Whale
- Gold Member
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Tuesday Feb 15, 2005
Every photo I have seen of the Pentagon shows a big round hole. Where did the wigs hit?I know a guy in Germany, a mechanical engineer who designs parts for airplanes, including Boeing landing gear. He has studied all of the pictures and footage of the Pentagon attack, and he claims that there is no way that a Boeing jumbo jet hit that building, there just isn't enough wreckage.
That's exactly what he said, and this guy is not your run of the mill tinfoil-hat wearing para-schizo. He specializes in this kind of thing. He was one of the investigators on the scene after flight 427 crashed following takeoff in Pittsburgh in '94.witchhunt wrote:Every photo I have seen of the Pentagon shows a big round hole. Where did the wigs hit?
Like most of us, he does not believe that the US gov't planned or purposely enabled the attacks, but he also doesn't believe that a 757 hit the Pentagon.
... and then the wheel fell off.
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
Some people are functionists; others are symbolic-interactionists. I'm a conflict theorist. I believe that society is in a constant struggle of power, and those who hold power will do so at all cost to remain there. While the orginal intent of legislation such as this and the Patriot Act is to ensure saftey, it also provides loop-holes which allow those in power to exploit other avenues when those circumstances present themselves. I haven't been constantly researching the non-terroristic implications of the Patriot Act, but I do remember an incident when it was used to bust a strip-club that had nothing to do with terrorism. The question isn't whether it will prevent terrorism - the question is whether this will provide loop-holes for exploitation in other areas of life. It's one's choice as a citizen to remain complacement with government. But remember, you can't just let checks and balances take care of everything while you stay comfy in your life, because as a citizen, you are part of checks and balances. It's bad enough that ex-cons are barred from many opportunities after they've paid their debt to society; that companies have the right to piss-test you and then deny employment because you smoke a little grass on your own time; and the PLCB/local law enforcers are fucking up the local music business over asinine crap. But I guess giving up freedoms so one can have some sense of security is doubleplusgood.esa wrote:Okay, humor me one on this.Ron wrote:That is the view that scares me. I'm sure you share that same opinion with a majority of the country. We give up freedom out of fear? How un-American is that?esa wrote: ...Better to have a loose eye on everyone than to have another 9-11 happen.
The problem is that the Sept. 11th hijackers all had multiple valid ID's and were in this country legally. This whole ID charade would NOT have changed what happened that morning.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
People who have written, rented, borrowed, downloaded or etc for the bible...i mean the Anarchists' Cookbook, have been kept a close eye on. Why is that. Some owners are hackers who, back in the day, wanted to share some stepping stones. This helped todays hack's get better, stronger, faster...we have the technology! Some owners just really wanted to know how you can make a bomb using fertilizer, a pair of sneakers and a pencil. Add a little amonia and you're ready for business.
Some owners wanted to know how to make bullets. How to make a working make-shift grenade. How to do M.T. Cocktails. How to whatever.
Some owners were just curious. Some were bored. Some ended up writing the second, third, fourth and fifth editions of this.
I know if you go to the library, there are flagged books in there.
Big brother is watching...why is it such a big surprise when they say they wanted to go to use liscenses?
I mean... I don't want people butting in constantly to my personal life, but if someone is buying 4 or 5 components for a bomb...in one setting....at one store... and the next day there is a blow up in that same town... I'd like to think that people would have known about it...
::peeks:: who's behind that curtain!?
And I agree with my compadre, Ron. I don't believe these conspiracy theories about the US government being behind 9/11. I'm sure there's a bunch of Lone Gunmen types that scour conspiracy boards reading up on that stuff. I do think that 9/11 was a blessing for all the facist types in the country who want to push their agendas. I'm surprised someone hasn't come out and said that if you don't shop at Wal-Mart, then you are supporting the terrorist.s
And what's up with Republicans voting for this? Aren't they the ones that want to do away with background checks for hand-guns?
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
Beat me to it.Craven Sound wrote:Two words...Patriot Act
Well, it's interesting to see other people seeing this as a problem as well.
I think the government has several methods that they try to control us with. I'd like to highlight the lyrics to a KMFDM song, it's pretty summary of these things we speak of.
The song is called Stars and Stripes.
A tyrant is a man who allows his people no freedom
Who is puffed-up by pride
Driven by the lust of power
Impelled by greed
Provoked by thirst for fame
Divided and conquered
Gripped by fear
Wishful thinking that it can't happen here
It's well underways but nobody knows
A repeat of history
That's how it goes
Tell the people that they're under attack
By man-eating foes from mars or iraq
Mobilize outrage
Muzzle dissent
Send in the troops
Strike the pre-empt
Stars & stripes
Learn how to fight
We come together by the dawn of the light
Oh so proudly we hail as the rockets red glare
Stars & stripes
Control the airwaves
Fuel the reaction
Use every weapon of mass-distraction
Turn active people into passive consumers
Feed 'em bogus polls and harebrained rumours
Cut back civil rights
Make no mistake
Tell 'em homeland security is now at stake
Whip up a frenzy keep 'em suspended
Don't let 'em know that their liberty's ended
Everything goes in the desperate states
The veneer of democracy rapidly fades
Wreak total havoc on all opposition
In any event fulfill your mission
Totalitarian media sensation
You will give 'em domination
Never mind they call you a liar and thief
By now you're undisputed commander-in-chief
I get so pissed off when people tell me "love it or leave it".
Why can't I work to change my America?
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, My America, is one with FREEDOM at ANY cost. If I have to worry about suicide bombers, and terror attacks, fine, because I live in America for my FREEDOM.
I get upset when more people don't take enough of an active role in politics. Too many people get tied up over this or that stupid debate and don't look at the real issues.
I'm VERY happy people like Ron actually have knowledge of different bills in attempt of passing or in the works of being passed, and I'm very hopeful that more people will take an active role, like he has, to become educated over political nature.