Feds Raid Gibson Guitar

[Banned]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 23268.html

"It's not enough to know that the body of your old guitar is made of spruce and maple: What's the bridge made of? If it's ebony, do you have the paperwork to show when and where that wood was harvested and when and where it was made into a bridge? Is the nut holding the strings at the guitar's headstock bone, or could it be ivory? "Even if you have no knowledge—despite Herculean efforts to obtain it—that some piece of your guitar, no matter how small, was obtained illegally, you lose your guitar forever," Prof. Thomas has written. "Oh, and you'll be fined $250 for that false (or missing) information in your Lacey Act Import Declaration."


----Will this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Will musicians lead the revolution when the Feds confiscate their guitars, basses, violins and pianos?

[moxham123]

Boy, does that stink.

I guess I should be fortunate that my Steinberger does not have any wooden parts. My other guitars do though.

[RobTheDrummer]

All in the name of the leftist green movement....especially because trees are a sustainable resource. It's all bullshit.

[Banned]

Boy, does that stink.

I guess I should be fortunate that my Steinberger does not have any wooden parts. My other guitars do though.

I have a Steinberger, and the fret board looks Rosewood to me.

[RobTheDrummer]

It's just another way for the government to be in your personal business.

[Banned]

It's just another way for the government to be in your personal business.

Bill and Johnny undoubtedly love this, the government is doing this for our own good. Isn't everything they do for the benefit of all?

Rob, you have no idea how irresponsible and damaging playing a guitar with a Rosewood or Ebony fretboard is.

[RobTheDrummer]

I bet the same assholes that pass this bullshit legislation have decorative wood items in their homes of the same variety.

[kayla]

thats kinda crazy. glad it said Gibson and not Fender

- kayla.

[moxham123]

Boy, does that stink.

I guess I should be fortunate that my Steinberger does not have any wooden parts. My other guitars do though.

I have a Steinberger, and the fret board looks Rosewood to me.

Joe,

I have a 1983 Steinberger bass - no wood on it anywhere.

After Gibson bought Steinberger, they started to make them with wooden necks in 1992 under the Spirit by Steinberger name. Even though the Steinbergers still had graphite composite necks, Gibson came out with Spirit by Steinbergers featuring a 3-piece hard maple, through-neck construction (GT and XT series) or hard maple, bolt-neck construction (GU and XZ series) making them much more affordable.

[f.sciarrillo]

That is bull. I agree with it being bullying by the government. Nothing more and nothing less. Bull is all it is.

[songsmith]

Will musicians lead the revolution when the Feds confiscate their guitars, basses, violins and pianos?

Yeah, Joe. The government wants your bass as bad as they want your guns. (Nobody has ever asked me anything about my gun. Ever. In 30 years.)

Paranoid much?

Leave me out of the Braintrust. I understand that tonewood is tonewood because of tight graining. Tight grain happens because of slow growth cycles, usually in the tropics. Slow growth means if you cut down all the goddamn trees now, you'll have to wait 250 years for some more.
Look it up, the reason those woods are illegal is because the countries of origin asked the US to make it so. Plus, there's plenty of other woods to make guitars out of.

No conspiracy against musicians. No governmental overreach. No left-wing socialism/comunism. Just a few clueless guys who need to buy a vowel or something.

Leave me out of the Braintrust. I'm asking nicely.

[mjb]

was in that factory last year for a tour... it was cool! i def. had wood!

[Banned]

Will musicians lead the revolution when the Feds confiscate their guitars, basses, violins and pianos?

Yeah, Joe. The government wants your bass as bad as they want your guns. (Nobody has ever asked me anything about my gun. Ever. In 30 years.)

Paranoid much?

Leave me out of the Braintrust. I understand that tonewood is tonewood because of tight graining. Tight grain happens because of slow growth cycles, usually in the tropics. Slow growth means if you cut down all the goddamn trees now, you'll have to wait 250 years for some more.
Look it up, the reason those woods are illegal is because the countries of origin asked the US to make it so. Plus, there's plenty of other woods to make guitars out of.

No conspiracy against musicians. No governmental overreach. No left-wing socialism/comunism. Just a few clueless guys who need to buy a vowel or something.

Leave me out of the Braintrust. I'm asking nicely.

Read the law. It is about whether the Rosewood or ebony wood was handled and finished by workers in their countries. We have federal agents of this country harassing companies to see if foreign workers did or did not finish the wood before being shipped. Why are my tax dollars being wasted to make sure some other country's workers did some work???

As most of the things this corrupt federal government does, this is beyond believable. If you think this is not a governmental overreach you are helpless and hopeless, and brainless.

[Banned]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-taqM5 ... r_embedded#!


CEO of Gibson USA responds to government oppression.

[f.sciarrillo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-taqM5 ... r_embedded#!


CEO of Gibson USA responds to government oppression.

The government must be upset at them for not moving out of the country.

[lonewolf]

thats kinda crazy. glad it said Gibson and not Fender

- kayla.

Fender doesn't use fancy materials!

[RobTheDrummer]

What I think is funny, is that they went in with guns and vests like it was a crack house....That's a good way to keep jobs in this country, send the workers home!

[Merge]

Let's worry about the alleged illegal wood, and ignore the illegal immigrants. Makes perfect sense to me.

[f.sciarrillo]

Let's worry about the alleged illegal wood, and ignore the illegal immigrants. Makes perfect sense to me.

Wood can't vote.

[MistValkyrie]

Man, thats crap! What's the point of taking the instrument away when the wood has already been cut and used. How is that the musicians fault?

[songsmith]

[The government must be upset at them for not moving out of the country.

Gibson (Norlin) moved production of Epiphone to JAPAN in 1969, because they care about American jobs. Then they moved production to Korea in the 80's, because they care about American jobs. They're in China now, because of Gibson's commitment to the American workforce.

There is no benefit to the sound or playability of an instrument if the wood used on a decorative top is AAA- or AAAA tiger maple. Highly-figured rosewood sounds relatively the same as a similar plain-grained piece, though there are always slight differences in sound between different pieces of wood, even from the same plank.
There is plenty of US wood to make great guitars and employ Americans, from the timberman who cuts down the ash tree, to the sawmill who cuts it, to the trucker who takes it to the factory, to the guy running the band saw, to the luthier who designs and builds it. Why be so quick to absolve Gibson of crimes, especially since they have a past? Does conservatism mean laws don't apply to companies AT ALL?

Also, illegal immigration from Mexico has slowed to a trickle, since the 2008 recession hit, though illegals do exist. However, not every Mexican person you see is illegal, even though they may look different than you.

[f.sciarrillo]

[The government must be upset at them for not moving out of the country.

Gibson (Norlin) moved production of Epiphone to JAPAN in 1969, because they care about American jobs. Then they moved production to Korea in the 80's, because they care about American jobs. They're in China now, because of Gibson's commitment to the American workforce.

There is no benefit to the sound or playability of an instrument if the wood used on a decorative top is AAA- or AAAA tiger maple. Highly-figured rosewood sounds relatively the same as a similar plain-grained piece, though there are always slight differences in sound between different pieces of wood, even from the same plank.
There is plenty of US wood to make great guitars and employ Americans, from the timberman who cuts down the ash tree, to the sawmill who cuts it, to the trucker who takes it to the factory, to the guy running the band saw, to the luthier who designs and builds it. Why be so quick to absolve Gibson of crimes, especially since they have a past? Does conservatism mean laws don't apply to companies AT ALL?

Also, illegal immigration from Mexico has slowed to a trickle, since the 2008 recession hit, though illegals do exist. However, not every Mexican person you see is illegal, even though they may look different than you.

Then I should say that the government is upset with them for not moving the whole operation out of the country. As for illegals, I know not all mexicans are illegal. However, the ones that are illegal have more rights than the ones that are legal.

[Banned]

[The government must be upset at them for not moving out of the country.

Gibson (Norlin) moved production of Epiphone to JAPAN in 1969, because they care about American jobs. Then they moved production to Korea in the 80's, because they care about American jobs. They're in China now, because of Gibson's commitment to the American workforce.

There is no benefit to the sound or playability of an instrument if the wood used on a decorative top is AAA- or AAAA tiger maple. Highly-figured rosewood sounds relatively the same as a similar plain-grained piece, though there are always slight differences in sound between different pieces of wood, even from the same plank.
There is plenty of US wood to make great guitars and employ Americans, from the timberman who cuts down the ash tree, to the sawmill who cuts it, to the trucker who takes it to the factory, to the guy running the band saw, to the luthier who designs and builds it. Why be so quick to absolve Gibson of crimes, especially since they have a past? Does conservatism mean laws don't apply to companies AT ALL?

Also, illegal immigration from Mexico has slowed to a trickle, since the 2008 recession hit, though illegals do exist. However, not every Mexican person you see is illegal, even though they may look different than you.

Why are you so quick to absolve the government of crimes? Why do you always act as the government's chief apologizer? Have you ever thought that one time, the government was wrong and a corporation was right? You said Gibson has a past, yes the govt raided them 2 years ago, and no charges were ever made. I say the government has a past record of misdeeds here, not Gibson.

Most of the rosewood and ebony in question are not for decorative purposes, they are for fretboards, directly effecting the sound and intonation of musical instruments.

[songsmith]

Okay Mr. Expert, tell me WHY exotic rosewood is better than the garden variety stuff, other than looks. Tell me WHY Gibson can't use another wood, perhaps from right here where people need jobs... other than because some douchebag has to have a guitar made out of unicorn horn to feel special with the damn thing strapped on.
If Gibson has some sort of constitutional right to endangered material, I have the right to dig up Ronald Reagan, and use his bones for musical instruments. I can give you all the usuall conservative reasons, too:
1) He's not using them. 2) They are relatively cheaply and easily dug up. 3) Bone is an excellent sound conductor, and anyone can tell you, makes the best quality nuts and bridges on acoustic guitars. 3) The free market dictates that I, as a business-person, have the right to bring any product to market for which there is a market. 4) The demand would create a large profit, which I could then use to either hire 100 people, or just hire a couple Mexicans, and spend the rest myself.

Now, on what date did you go from defending the Patriot Act (which you did ad nauseum just a few years ago; to blaming government for rampant abuse. I bet it was in early November of 2008. Everything you ever typed is still here. Look it up.

[kayla]

other than because some douchebag has to have a guitar made out of unicorn horn to feel special with the damn thing strapped on.