you tell me
you tell me
all some good ideas and some good suggestions, but honestly if you came to my place from altoona or wherever and I charged $3 and 25 people showed wouldn't you be pissed right off and disappointed? I would be! there are very few people that get in to the music, originals or covers, like kymm and I and we are trying to figure out why. you have to have a certain respect and awe for someone that can do what a band does, we can't be the only bar owners that give a shit! I like every kind of music there is, right down to classical and it is mostly because of the hard work that I know people put in to creating it. you know what songs I truly hate and could do without for the rest of my life, achy fucking breaky heart and old time rock and roll, over rated & over played!!!!! ok, anyway... I think everyone hit the nail on the head when you say it's the girls we need to attract, and believe me I like to see the girls walk thru the door, because I know who is going to follow them, but we need to keep them there once they strut in the door. the bad part is I am always pointing to them and telling my husband " look at the tits on that" or if they are ugly ones it's " pooper scooper in aisle 5 please" we get a good laugh on most nights, and don't you love the 300# chicks wearing half shirts, what the hell is up with that? as a friend I would have to be honest with them and say hey not a good look for ya babe!!!! I am not saying fat chicks can't have fun, cuz my sister and I are not perfect, and we call ourselves the fat chicks, what I am saying is cover it up so you don't end up with the skinny guy on the dance floor stuck between the layers. alrighty then I feel so much better getting that out>
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you tell me
here is the idea that kymm and I talked about today and think it may be beneficial to both sides. we know just about every bar owner in the area and thought it might be good for some of the bands to do a road trip with us. we can rent a bus so we have the designated driver and we can introduce you to them and maybe get you all up here to play more often and in alot of different venues. we can do 5 or more, I have a list of 10 that we can go to, it's up to you guys. all you have to do is bring press kits if you have them and we can bar hop and do some introducing. it will be about $15 a person for the bus if we get 40 people and bring your beer money with you, every time we have done this we took beer on the bus with us also, so it's a big party ride. march 20th is what I am thinking, that way we have a better chance at good weather and alot of you will already have met kymm and I by then. we can meet at our place around noon, leave on the bus around 1 and we would be back around 7 or 8 that way we can be home early enough for the poor souls that have to work on monday. if you do not drink, no big deal, sometimes I don't either. but it is always fun when a bunch of different band members get together. let me know if you want to do this and kymm and I will make the calls for the arrangements and I will call the bars to let them know we are invading them. you want to play up here? this gives you a chance to check everything out and get to know some of us. honestly, we have most of our teeth still, and the banjo's only play after dark on a full moon. 
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J Michaels
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This is a great discussion, with many good points. Hats off to the musicians who are honest enough about the business to admit to the share of responsibility on the side of bands. And more hats off to Becky and crew for the efforts they are making, not just to have a successful business, but to spread some of that success around, supporting musicians and the music scene because they love music, too.
There seems to be a pretty good representation of the “band side” of the issue. Therefore, my only comment at this point regards the idea that the bar owner is not a band's promoter, the band should be, which is absolutely true. A band should not look to others to do their advertising, to build their following, etc.
HOWEVER - the bands are not the promoters of the clubs, either. It seems to me that a lot of bar owners (tho this does not seem to include Becky and her place) only want to bring in a band if that band will bring people into the bar, as if the only way to have a good night at the cash register is if the band brings in 150+ people.
EVERY business has a responsibility to try and build its OWN customer base. Think of it this way - if you have a "regular" crowd that is always there, no matter what band is playing, you will make good money. That should be the first priority of any business - to build that customer base. Then, if and when you book any "major" acts - those that will bring in their "loyal followers" - you will have a GREAT night, because you will essentially have TWO groups of people in the bar: those who frequent your place all the time, and those that go wherever a particular band is playing.
To get that "regular crowd" you have to make your establishment special, with fast and friendly service (bartenders, bouncers, cocktailers - everyone!), reasonably priced beverages and specials, clean bathrooms, decent parking, whatever else you can think of - including entertainment. But more than that, you have to make your place known. That means advertising, regardless of who the band is (or the DJ (ugh) or karaoke (double ugh) or whatever.) You can have the best service, cheapest beer, spotless bathrooms, whatever, but if you don’t tell people about it, no one is going to come out – or the rate of growth of your regular crowd will be too slow to keep you afloat long enough to become established.
I'll give you an example of the service aspect. We played a place near Harrisburg (no names.) We had a fairly large crowd there, especially given the size of the venue, as most of the band is from down that way, and we play down there all the time, including this bar. As the night went on, it thinned out some, and at the end of the night the owner wanted to short us (not tremendously, but still an agreement is an agreement, and the place was more or less full for most of the night.) The owner's argument was that people "didn't drink enough", so the register receipts were less than hoped for. But there was only ONE bartender working, while the owner was in another room of the place hanging out with friends, having a few drinks and playing cards (or something). But we had people actually complain to us that they were leaving cuz they couldn't get a drink, or that it took 20 minutes to get one, etc. So is this the band's fault? The owner seemed to think somehow it was. (Now, mind you, we have since worked things out with the owner, and everything is cool and we are playing there in the future - but you get my point.) You are not going to get people to come back (no matter WHAT band is playing) with situations like that.
In any case, you can't build the regular crowd simply by bringing in bands with followings. The proof is in the phrase - those people are going to follow that band from one place to another. There are more people that prefer to go to their “favorite bar” all the time than there are people who will travel around Central PA to see the same band all the time. Of course, you can try to have “major” bands every week, but I don’t think there are enough of them to go around for every place to have one every Friday and Saturday.
The point of all of this rambling is that bars and bands should BOTH be promoting their respective ventures. Both sides have an interest in it, and neither side should be expecting it all to be done by the other.
There seems to be a pretty good representation of the “band side” of the issue. Therefore, my only comment at this point regards the idea that the bar owner is not a band's promoter, the band should be, which is absolutely true. A band should not look to others to do their advertising, to build their following, etc.
HOWEVER - the bands are not the promoters of the clubs, either. It seems to me that a lot of bar owners (tho this does not seem to include Becky and her place) only want to bring in a band if that band will bring people into the bar, as if the only way to have a good night at the cash register is if the band brings in 150+ people.
EVERY business has a responsibility to try and build its OWN customer base. Think of it this way - if you have a "regular" crowd that is always there, no matter what band is playing, you will make good money. That should be the first priority of any business - to build that customer base. Then, if and when you book any "major" acts - those that will bring in their "loyal followers" - you will have a GREAT night, because you will essentially have TWO groups of people in the bar: those who frequent your place all the time, and those that go wherever a particular band is playing.
To get that "regular crowd" you have to make your establishment special, with fast and friendly service (bartenders, bouncers, cocktailers - everyone!), reasonably priced beverages and specials, clean bathrooms, decent parking, whatever else you can think of - including entertainment. But more than that, you have to make your place known. That means advertising, regardless of who the band is (or the DJ (ugh) or karaoke (double ugh) or whatever.) You can have the best service, cheapest beer, spotless bathrooms, whatever, but if you don’t tell people about it, no one is going to come out – or the rate of growth of your regular crowd will be too slow to keep you afloat long enough to become established.
I'll give you an example of the service aspect. We played a place near Harrisburg (no names.) We had a fairly large crowd there, especially given the size of the venue, as most of the band is from down that way, and we play down there all the time, including this bar. As the night went on, it thinned out some, and at the end of the night the owner wanted to short us (not tremendously, but still an agreement is an agreement, and the place was more or less full for most of the night.) The owner's argument was that people "didn't drink enough", so the register receipts were less than hoped for. But there was only ONE bartender working, while the owner was in another room of the place hanging out with friends, having a few drinks and playing cards (or something). But we had people actually complain to us that they were leaving cuz they couldn't get a drink, or that it took 20 minutes to get one, etc. So is this the band's fault? The owner seemed to think somehow it was. (Now, mind you, we have since worked things out with the owner, and everything is cool and we are playing there in the future - but you get my point.) You are not going to get people to come back (no matter WHAT band is playing) with situations like that.
In any case, you can't build the regular crowd simply by bringing in bands with followings. The proof is in the phrase - those people are going to follow that band from one place to another. There are more people that prefer to go to their “favorite bar” all the time than there are people who will travel around Central PA to see the same band all the time. Of course, you can try to have “major” bands every week, but I don’t think there are enough of them to go around for every place to have one every Friday and Saturday.
The point of all of this rambling is that bars and bands should BOTH be promoting their respective ventures. Both sides have an interest in it, and neither side should be expecting it all to be done by the other.
You better call me a doctor - feelin' no pain!
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J Michaels
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- Joined: Thursday Aug 21, 2003
- Location: Huntsville, AL
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you tell me
oh so true about the owners, most of them are very greedy like that. I do not need 150 people every time a band plays and it is foolish and stupid to expect that, but I do get phone calls avery day asking what band is playing this weekend so I must have done something right. my major problem is that we are only drawing them in on heavy metal nights, which is ok for those nights, but now we are known as the metal head bar, hence the decision to book different music on different nights and start rebuilding a regular customer base for those nights also. we know 75% of the metal heads by their first names and kymm is one of them, but I'll be damned if they will stop in any other time just to say hi. I want the live music and I want the bands to play at all the places around me that also support the live music so that you do play more often, you do build a larger fan base and you do bring a larger crowd and the end result is, you get paid more, some of you get laid more, it encourages a bar to book you more often, and it makes you WANT to play more, oh and I do sell more beer that way too. if you draw a larger crowd in sykesville than you do in brockway, so what! why should I care, it's all about getting you out there and getting you heard. If you didn't enjoy what you were doing you wouldn't be doing it, and neither would I. and believe me it's mine and my sisters fat asses behind that bar slingin drinks on band nites you do not have to wait for a drink! and just because the sales were slower does not give any owner the right to short a band at any time. we can work together and get something done and I am willing to help every one of you out because honestly it is going to help me also. when some of you are rich and famous someday you are going to say hey remember that fat chick that got us some gigs, what was her name? damn I can't think of it right now.
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J Michaels
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Re: you tell me
OK - seriously - who are you? You can NOT be a bar owner. You may not even be human! Is anyone really this cool?!?!becky wrote:I want the live music and I want the bands to play at all the places around me that also support the live music so that you do play more often, you do build a larger fan base and you do bring a larger crowd and the end result is, you get paid more, some of you get laid more, it encourages a bar to book you more often, and it makes you WANT to play more, oh and I do sell more beer that way too. (emphasis added)
Wow - my fellow musicians, if Becky is serious about all this and really working this hard to help US out while trying to build her business, we HAVE to get up to her place and play. We ought to try and make her place THE place to go.when some of you are rich and famous someday you are going to say hey remember that fat chick that got us some gigs, what was her name? damn I can't think of it right now.
oh yeah - almost forgot this part:
uhh..... we need to talk! http://rockpage.net/bands/bands.php?band=kushmy major problem is that we are only drawing them in on heavy metal nights, which is ok for those nights, but now we are known as the metal head bar
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ZappasXWife
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- Joined: Thursday Apr 10, 2003
- Location: Altoona
Ha, that reminds me of the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard from a bartender who I think was also the owner (cool becky would never be this dumb). When a friends' band was not asked back to a (dive) bar, reason given was "the regulars didn't like the music". The regulars? The regulars (all 6 of them) would be in that bar every night, same stool, same time, no matter what. It's like the bar owner wasn't even noticing the unknowns that came in the door to see the band. Well, I take that back, remembering the unabashed stares we got from the 'regulars' AND the dumb bartender. Granted, there wasn't many of us, but that could have changed. That's something to build on...not the regular's music appreciation.There are more people that prefer to go to their “favorite bar” all the time than there are people who will travel around Central PA to see the same band all the time.
If music be the food of love, then play on...
William Shakespeare
William Shakespeare
That's a great point ZW. I've seen the same phenomenon, on the beerhall circuit, with my former country band. We played a local Eagles club on a bi-monthly basis, and by the third time there, people were actually JOINING their club to see THAT BAND. We had crowds so large they were turning people away at the door. Despite all this, we were getting no more pay than the same old hackneyed drunks that had played there for decades, but what the heck, we had an appreciative crowd of ladies who wanted to dance. Here's the rub: The club manager came to me while I was onstage (I was front-man) and informed me that we were to play 50% slow songs, 50% fast-dance. My jaw was hanging open, I was so flabbergasted. I told him to look around him, pay attention. The room was 80% female, despite there not being any good-looking studs in the band. When we did play a ballad, there was a collective groan from the girls. They weren't there to hook up with lonely elderly guys, they were there to boogie. When I pressed this guy, he admitted he wanted to slow-dance with his wife and whoever else would be willing to rub bellies, and he was willing to tell a clubfull of customers to pound sand in order to do so. I figure since he was manager, he made the same pay whether he was successful or not, and would've rather not worked so hard. I granted his wish, never played there again, and he was let go shortly afterward. Some clubs, especially private ones, don't want the extra work that success brings, and some don't want to alienate the 7 drunks that are pathetic enough to hang out there daily (can you say, Snooze-burg?). The best way to help them achieve their goal is to not support them.
Oh, and hey: God bless fat chicks. GOD BLESS 'EM!!! Back in the day, they'd buy me stage clothes and meals, they're always nice when you're thirsty, and their moms don't mind if you happen to need a place to stay for a day or two (or three). And lest you all think I'm shallow, some of them, perhaps due to not being accepted by the mainstream fella's, are very sweet in personality, and that's hella sexy. Plus, a girl can lose weight with some restraint and hard work, but ugly runs clean to the bone. Skinny does NOT necessarily equal attractive. I'm reminded of a high-school buddy's chubby little sister, who I would roller-skate "couples" with because nobody else would. At age 13 she was quiet and shy, and maybe 40 lbs. overweight. At age 20 she could have easily posed for a Victoria's Secret catalogue. Sure, she thanked me for being so nice to her then, but by that point she had hooked up with another dude who was nice to her before. Doh! GOD BLESS THEM !!---->shortfathairyJMS
Oh, and hey: God bless fat chicks. GOD BLESS 'EM!!! Back in the day, they'd buy me stage clothes and meals, they're always nice when you're thirsty, and their moms don't mind if you happen to need a place to stay for a day or two (or three). And lest you all think I'm shallow, some of them, perhaps due to not being accepted by the mainstream fella's, are very sweet in personality, and that's hella sexy. Plus, a girl can lose weight with some restraint and hard work, but ugly runs clean to the bone. Skinny does NOT necessarily equal attractive. I'm reminded of a high-school buddy's chubby little sister, who I would roller-skate "couples" with because nobody else would. At age 13 she was quiet and shy, and maybe 40 lbs. overweight. At age 20 she could have easily posed for a Victoria's Secret catalogue. Sure, she thanked me for being so nice to her then, but by that point she had hooked up with another dude who was nice to her before. Doh! GOD BLESS THEM !!---->shortfathairyJMS
you tell me
I didn't think I was cool 
I thought I was being honest and up front about how I think other bar owners should be. why is it that some of them have to be so arrogant and rude? listen, I want to make some money just like everybody else but I believe in sharing the wealth with whoever is willing to work along side me to accomplish that. I believe that if we work together to get the music heard, we will all benefit from it and make some great friends in the process. I will tell you this also, my bar is one of the only ones that will have heavy metal bands play,most of the others are totally against it and will not even listen, but I am not going to do it more than twice a month, and I will not have an all age show, EVER. so stop asking about that part of it. my sister is a 35 yr old metal head and I am sure there are more out there, I do not need a bunch of 14 year old kids drinking pepsi in the bar. its a beer joint, not a soda fucking fountain. hope I finally made the point there, or do I need to type slower? sorry had to get that off my chest too.!! if your band is only hitting the 12-18 yr olds you may need to rethink you strategy a little for the bar scene, please. I am an 80's music lover, I do like a band that plays the cover songs, BUT I love the bands that put the originals out there, it tells me that you have what it takes to make it, you have to have some balls to play an original song to a bunch of strangers. now, if you want the gigs in this area just let me know, but most of the bars are not going to book you unless they meet you or hear you play sometime. let me know who wants to do it and I will help you in every way possible.
I thought I was being honest and up front about how I think other bar owners should be. why is it that some of them have to be so arrogant and rude? listen, I want to make some money just like everybody else but I believe in sharing the wealth with whoever is willing to work along side me to accomplish that. I believe that if we work together to get the music heard, we will all benefit from it and make some great friends in the process. I will tell you this also, my bar is one of the only ones that will have heavy metal bands play,most of the others are totally against it and will not even listen, but I am not going to do it more than twice a month, and I will not have an all age show, EVER. so stop asking about that part of it. my sister is a 35 yr old metal head and I am sure there are more out there, I do not need a bunch of 14 year old kids drinking pepsi in the bar. its a beer joint, not a soda fucking fountain. hope I finally made the point there, or do I need to type slower? sorry had to get that off my chest too.!! if your band is only hitting the 12-18 yr olds you may need to rethink you strategy a little for the bar scene, please. I am an 80's music lover, I do like a band that plays the cover songs, BUT I love the bands that put the originals out there, it tells me that you have what it takes to make it, you have to have some balls to play an original song to a bunch of strangers. now, if you want the gigs in this area just let me know, but most of the bars are not going to book you unless they meet you or hear you play sometime. let me know who wants to do it and I will help you in every way possible.only the best sex toys sold here!
you tell me
I forgot to mention something about the bus trip, after we do it here, would someone be kind enough to arrange one where they are so that we can bring some of our bands to meet your bar owners also? this could turn in to a hell of a traveling show! here is exactly what I have from the bus co. here, $2.80 a mile & $10.00 an hr, so we figured it out at 100 miles round trip from bar to bar $280.00 and 8 hrs $80.00 and a $40.00 tip for the driver. if we get 40 people it is only $10 per person plus your beer $, we are allowed up to 59 people. I have to know by FEB 28 to get the bus for the 20th of march. don't disappoint me people, we are doing this for you, the only thing I am getting out of this trip is drunk and maybe a few friends in the process!
and maybe a few friends in the process!only the best sex toys sold here!