How do you roll?

[tornandfrayed]

I am not a guitar player, most I played was acoustic on the beach to get laid.

My kid is a guitar player though but he is only 11.

When it comes to pedals where do you prefer them? Ie on the dirty channel, on the clean channel, in the efx loop, etc...

I am really just trying to get a feel for how this is most commonly done...

What do you guys like and what don't you like...

If you are going to use a pedal like a Line 6 HD500 where do you put it? and how do you control the volume to keep the levels the same between presets....

Just curious!

Happy New Year!

[f.sciarrillo]

I usually run them through the clean channel. Of all the mult-channel amps I used, I never used any channel but the clean channel because the pedals were good enough (it is the same concept that satch uses).

If you get into rack setups with things like a voodoo lab audio switcher and ground control pedal system, then you will run both effects loop and channel control. Depending on what you want, most cases what they do is run the delay and verbs through the effects loops and the others through the input. Of course there are rack systems where they run everything through the effects loop.

A line 6 hd500 I would run through the input. There is no real need to use the effects loop for that. As far as volume control, the unit has a noise gate built into it. Others feed a separate pedal in the line between the unit and the amp. It is all based preference ..

[KeithReynolds]

The way I always made my levels match was just setting the levels on the processor. Take a little bit to set all the levels, but its well worth it. You just go through your presets adjusting the volume to where it needs to be, and then you save it.
I always ran processors right into the input.

A noise gate wont help with volume control A noise gate basically cuts all signal below a certain point. It doesnt automate volume. It removes everything below the threshold. If set too high, will sound like 10lbs of shit stuffed in a 5lb bag. Noise gates for guitar are just used to eliminate hum and amp noise.

[f.sciarrillo]

yeah, a noise gate will reduce the hum and static noise. But my understanding was that it would also normalize the volume as well? Hmm, I could be wrong. But it always sounded like it for me anyhow. It must be just my ear or something leading me to think something different.

[orangekick]

I used to run my pedal board split. I had my wah, overdrive, fuzz and noise pedals hitting the front end while all of the modulation and delay went through the effects loop. Yeah, this meant that I had a bunch of spaghetti on the floor on my side of the stage, but the tones were crystal clear and everything worked as it was supposed to.

I always use the channels on my amps. I have never heard a pedal that sounds as good as a tube amp's gain channel.

[KeithReynolds]

Are you thinking of a compressor?

Those reduce dynamic range. making the soft parts more on the same level as the loud parts. When a signal passes above the threshold on a compressor, the volume is "turned down". All the other settings dictate when, & how. I could see a compressor being used more to control levels rather than a noise gate.
Even then, id rather just set my levels on the processor to match than start messing with the signal too much.

A real good way to understand a compressor and to see it in action is to throw it on a vocal track that has loud parts and softer singing. When set right, the compressor will make all of it on the same level, so there isnt a volume change when the singer gets loud.
Thats just one way to use a compressor though. Just like noise gates can be used for other things too. In the audio world, everything can be used multiple ways for different applications.


The thing about tube amp gain, solid state gain and amp sim gain is: When set up correctly, you can get a decent tone out of almost anything. Ive heard people who have great tube amps get the worst sound possible from it (and they say how awesome it sounds). Ive also heard software amp sims blow away alot of guitar sounds. It REALLY all depends on how you set things up and how well you shape your tone. Theres isnt a magic button, it all takes time to sculpt a good tone.
Most people set their gain WAY TOO HIGH because they think its "heavier". I used to do that myself! Alot of the time you end up with sloppy sounding fizz. Less is more sometimes. Also, every amp should come with a 31 band EQ built in for maximum shaping. EQ can take a so-so sound and turn it into a really great sound.

If youre getting an HD500 Dave, youll really like it. Line 6 makes great stuff. Almost everything they put out is damn good.

[f.sciarrillo]

Are you thinking of a compressor?

Those reduce dynamic range. making the soft parts more on the same level as the loud parts. When a signal passes above the threshold on a compressor, the volume is "turned down". All the other settings dictate when, & how. I could see a compressor being used more to control levels rather than a noise gate.
Even then, id rather just set my levels on the processor to match than start messing with the signal too much.

A real good way to understand a compressor and to see it in action is to throw it on a vocal track that has loud parts and softer singing. When set right, the compressor will make all of it on the same level, so there isnt a volume change when the singer gets loud.
Thats just one way to use a compressor though. Just like noise gates can be used for other things too. In the audio world, everything can be used multiple ways for different applications..

Thank you, that is what I was thinking, Keith.

[lonewolf]

Sell everything and get the best floor processor/power amp/speaker cabinet you can find and skip the guitar amp altogether.

You can get any tone you want (in spades) and any effect you want at any volume at the touch of a footswitch...repeatable every time you use it. No fumbling with knobs and dialing stuff in every time you set up and no more being limited to 1, 2 or 3 tones.

Only 3 people out of a million are gonna claim to tell the difference between the latest modelers and a tube amp. If you test them, you will fool 2 out of those three.

I have a super-boutique class A Koch tube amp and I prefer playing my Boss GT10 thru a power amp & Mojo Bassman 2-12. I still play thru the Koch when I'm feeling nostalgic.

[Colton]

Sell everything and get the best floor processor/power amp/speaker cabinet you can find and skip the guitar amp altogether.

I gotta wash my hands after I type this, due to the vomit now on my keyboard.

[felix'apprentice]

Sell everything and get the best floor processor/power amp/speaker cabinet you can find and skip the guitar amp altogether.

I gotta wash my hands after I type this, due to the vomit now on my keyboard.

[bassist_25]

Generally, effects that add a gain stage or enevelop filters should go in front of the amp. Effects such as delay and chorus should go in the loop. Personally, I run everything in front of my amp. My chain goes: Bass Guitar ---> Bass Muff ----> Bass Wah ----> Bass Balls ----> Bass Chorus ----> Amp.

You're generally supposed to put the wah right after your instrument, but for some reason, it doesn't work as well before the overdrive in my chain.

Only 3 people out of a million are gonna claim to tell the difference between the latest modelers and a tube amp. If you test them, you will fool 2 out of those three.

In the world of personality psychology, I'm an INTJ. There are only about 1% of people with my personality type in the world. I must also be one of the 2 or 3 people out of a million who can tell the difference between a modeler and a tube amp. Out of all of the modelers I've heard, they can do clean tones very well, but they just don't sound the same to my ears as a set of saturated 6L6s or EL34s and an output transformer. Also, there's the issue of how a tube amp reacts to your playing.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a tube snob. There is a ton of great solid-state gear out there, particuarly for bass. I just don't think modelers are there yet with replicating an overdriven tube amp.

[f.sciarrillo]

Sell everything and get the best floor processor/power amp/speaker cabinet you can find and skip the guitar amp altogether.

You can get any tone you want (in spades) and any effect you want at any volume at the touch of a footswitch...repeatable every time you use it. No fumbling with knobs and dialing stuff in every time you set up and no more being limited to 1, 2 or 3 tones.

Only 3 people out of a million are gonna claim to tell the difference between the latest modelers and a tube amp. If you test them, you will fool 2 out of those three.

I have a super-boutique class A Koch tube amp and I prefer playing my Boss GT10 thru a power amp & Mojo Bassman 2-12. I still play thru the Koch when I'm feeling nostalgic.

Come on Jeff, you can't beat the sound of a Mesa or Marshall. There is no processor that could duplicate that ..

My main thing I want, after I get my PRS this month, is a Mesa Single Recto half stack and Line 6 processor ..

[felix'apprentice]

Come on Jeff, you can't beat the sound of a Mesa or Marshall.

um ya you can, its called a fender

- kayla.

[f.sciarrillo]

Come on Jeff, you can't beat the sound of a Mesa or Marshall.

um ya you can, its called a fender

- kayla.

Ouch!

[KeithReynolds]

Lonewolf is 100% right. Amp modeling has come a LONG way.

[lonewolf]

Also, there's the issue of how a tube amp reacts to your playing.

Yes i agree.

I find the tactile response from a well-programmed digital modeler to be far superior to that of a tube amp. Not even close.

The key here is well-programmed. you can't use factory programs and expect to fool anybody.

After 20 years of programming this stuff, I can fool you anytime you like Paul

[lonewolf]

Come on Jeff, you can't beat the sound of a Mesa or Marshall. There is no processor that could duplicate that ..

I do it every time I fire up my rig....

Duplicate? Maybe not, but this is 2011, not 1976. Time to get in the game.

[bassist_25]

After 20 years of programming this stuff, I can fool you anytime you like Paul

Sounds like a challenge!

[mjb]

is that the set up you were playing at jim and jimmies that time i seen you jeff?

[onegunguitar]

Come on Jeff, you can't beat the sound of a Mesa or Marshall.

um ya you can, its called a fender

- kayla.

If it's hard rock or metal...sorry....Fender don't cut it.

[lonewolf]

is that the set up you were playing at jim and jimmies that time i seen you jeff?

Yep. Boss GT-10 into a 5lb. Stewart 1/2 rack 100W power amp into a Mojotone Custom Bassman 2-12 loaded with Celestion G12 Century vanilla flavored neo speakers. The power amp is tucked away in our PA rack.

I also use a Crate PowerBlock 150 power amp when the PA is supplied and we don't bring ours. Makes for a neat looking little head and does the job perfectly. It also kicks ass as a bass amp for Matt at practice.

[lonewolf]

After 20 years of programming this stuff, I can fool you anytime you like Paul

Sounds like a challenge!

[f.sciarrillo]

I am digging this thread

Jeff, the way you are talking, you just hook the guitar up the processor and run it direct into the board. Ya know, seeing that a lot of the processors have preamps built into them, I can that happening. But I still think a half stack would make it sound better.

[KeithReynolds]

Hey lonewolf, Record some short little clips and show these people what we're talking about!

[lonewolf]

I am digging this thread

Jeff, the way you are talking, you just hook the guitar up the processor and run it direct into the board. Ya know, seeing that a lot of the processors have preamps built into them, I can that happening. But I still think a half stack would make it sound better.

I only go straight to the board when I go to jams like Wed. night at Pelle's.

I cannot stand the sound of an electric guitar going thru PA horns, but its tolerable at jams. We roll the treble off a lot to get rid of some of the horn buzz.

When I gig, its more like plugging the processor into the FX return on a solid state guitar amp.

GT10 -- solid state power amp -- guitar speaker cabinet. I mic the cabinet when necessary.

There was a time when I liked playing modelers thru a tube power amp (Mesa 20/20 & Marshall 2020), but with the latest modelers, a tube power amp just makes it muddy. I suppose you could tweak out the muddiness with the processor, but that's just more work. Tube amps take extra work each time you set up and you only get one or two tones out of them. I suppose that's OK if you are an original band looking to get your own sound, but it bites if you play a variety of covers because you don't expect to be the 1st player in history to get signed at age 50.

I only play my Koch Studiotone when I'm feeling nostalgic, LOL.