PA Equipment

[felix'apprentice]

Alright, so i am thinkin about gettin a small PA system. Problem - i have no idea what i would need. And honestly - i just have no understanding of how to hook up the thing. So buyin PA equipment is goin to be very intimidating for me.

So, my question. what would i need to get started? I wouldn't need like a million channels - only a few to run some mics off of.

Any help you can give me would be awesome! I know its a broad topic lol but im sure someone can help me out.

thanks!

- kayla.

[lonewolf]

For startup, I strongly recommend powered PA speakers & a mixer. There are a lot reasons to go this route, including:

-the power amps and electronics are optimized for the speakers: no guessing
-there are no power losses from using speaker cables
-uses only mic cables
-daisy chain as many monitors as you like
-no big assed clumsy amps to haul around
-faster setup and tear down

The only drawbacks I can think of are:

-you can't do stadiums
-you need to get AC power to the speakers

For vocals, a 12" PA cab is much better than a 15" PA cab. If you ever decide to mic all the instruments, you are still much better off with a 12" cabinet and then add some subs.

To start, figure out how many vocal mics you will need...probably no more than 4. There are plenty of small mixers with 4 mic preamps out there for not very much $. If later on you decide to mic instruments, you can use this mixer for a practice room.

I hate to say it, but Behringer has some really good sounding stuff cheap...also Tapco. For more bucks, you can get Mackie, Yamaha, JBL, QSC and EV.

Here's a Behringer package for $700:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=485751

Wait for a sale and you could get it for around $600

[felix'apprentice]

thanks jeff! i knew i could count on ya! thats a nice lil setup.

i dont understand why you would mic an amp? unless you're playing some where huge. i just can't grasp that concept - i've seen bands mic amps in small places. is there a reasonin for that?

[bassist_25]

i dont understand why you would mic an amp? unless you're playing some where huge. i just can't grasp that concept - i've seen bands mic amps in small places. is there a reasonin for that?

1. Directionality: Guitar frequencies are some of the more directional frequencies, and washing both sides of a room will help ensure a relatively consistent guitar mix whether you're standing on the left or the right side of the room (that's just in theory, there may be physical differences in the left and right side of the room that will affect what you hear).

2. Phasing: When all of the instruments are going through the FOH, they're all reaching the audience members' ears at the same time. With just vocals going through the PA, an audience member is hearing the vocals before they are hearing anything else. This generally wouldn't be an issue in a small room where the backline is only a few feet behind the FOH. However, on a larger stage where the PA is way out in front of the backline, there definitely could be phasing issues.

3. Control: This is probably the most important. Stages are often made out of different materials than the rest of the room. What sounds good on stage may not sound good 25 feet out on the dance floor. Having an engineer that can adjust the sound after a mic or DI will allow for an optimal FOH sound while still retaining a good stage sound. Someone at the board can bump the level for a lead tone, a clean tone, or add some delay to make a solo stand out more. Being able to control the sound of all of their instruments from a board is a lot easier than saying, "Pete, can you turn up? John, can you not hit your snare so hard."

4. Ability to Use Smaller Gear and to Save Your Hearing: If you're using tube gear, then there is always an optimal gain and volume setting for getting a specific tone. It's easier to use a 50 watt amp and get your tone while letting the PA do the work than hauling an uber rig and trying to fill the room. Even in a large room, your ears may be bleeding by the time you saturate the output tubes on a 120 watt head to hit the sweet spot. Take the 50 watt head, let the PA do the heavy lifting for volume, and get a great tone without needing an endorsement from Hearos.

[felix'apprentice]

i dont understand why you would mic an amp? unless you're playing some where huge. i just can't grasp that concept - i've seen bands mic amps in small places. is there a reasonin for that?

1. Directionality: Guitar frequencies are some of the more directional frequencies, and washing both sides of a room will help ensure a relatively consistent guitar mix whether you're standing on the left or the right side of the room (that's just in theory, there may be physical differences in the left and right side of the room that will affect what you hear).

2. Phasing: When all of the instruments are going through the FOH, they're all reaching the audience members' ears at the same time. With just vocals going through the PA, an audience member is hearing the vocals before they are hearing anything else. This generally wouldn't be an issue in a small room where the backline is only a few feet behind the FOH. However, on a larger stage where the PA is way out in front of the backline, there definitely could be phasing issues.

3. Control: This is probably the most important. Stages are often made out of different materials than the rest of the room. What sounds good on stage may not sound good 25 feet out on the dance floor. Having an engineer that can adjust the sound after a mic or DI will allow for an optimal FOH sound while still retaining a good stage sound. Someone at the board can bump the level for a lead tone, a clean tone, or add some delay to make a solo stand out more. Being able to control the sound of all of their instruments from a board is a lot easier than saying, "Pete, can you turn up? John, can you not hit your snare so hard."

4. Ability to Use Smaller Gear and to Save Your Hearing: If you're using tube gear, then there is always an optimal gain and volume setting for getting a specific tone. It's easier to use a 50 watt amp and get your tone while letting the PA do the work than hauling an uber rig and trying to fill the room. Even in a large room, your ears may be bleeding by the time you saturate the output tubes on a 120 watt head to hit the sweet spot. Take the 50 watt head, let the PA do the heavy lifting for volume, and get a great tone without needing an endorsement from Hearos.

now i understand, i didnt think about any of that. i was simply thinking - well i got a huge amp why do i need more power type of thing.

thank you sooo much!!

- kayla.

[bassist_25]

Indeed! Honestly, after putting guitar through the mains, I've come to love it quite a bit, even in small rooms with a small PA. It's a control and directionalilty thing for me. I'm a big proponent on having a heavy guitar mix for rock, country, blues, and pop music. Having a nice, even guitar mix washing both sides of the room really helps for that.

Plus, it's great that you don't need an obsence amount of headroom or cone area to put a guitar through a PA. Bass requires a lot more fire power to reproduce accurately and without damage to gear. Fortunately, however, bass is a lot more omnidirectional (often to the chagrin of club owners trying to keep their pain in the ass neighbors off their backs ), so FOH reinforcement for bass in small rooms generally isn't necessary.

Just make sure you have your cross-over right, least Lonewolf come along and lay the smacketh down for having guitar in the horns. *lol*

[RFBuck]

Paul speaketh truth!!

[Merge]

This is a very informative thread. Bassist25, can you tell me what exactly a Sonic Maximizer does??

[songsmith]

Maximizes your sonic. --->JMS

[Merge]

Thank you, songsmith

[floodcitybrass]

This is a very informative thread. Bassist25, can you tell me what exactly a Sonic Maximizer does??

They are a waste of money. No reputable sound company would use something like this.
The most noticible thing you can hear is that bass and treble boost. So it sounds like a smiley face EQ setting.
A total waste of money imo.

[JackANSI]

This is a very informative thread. Bassist25, can you tell me what exactly a Sonic Maximizer does??

They are a waste of money. No reputable sound company would use something like this.
The most noticible thing you can hear is that bass and treble boost. So it sounds like a smiley face EQ setting.
A total waste of money imo.

If you're going to get a piece of gear to control/tune a set of speakers/room (especially if you plan on having subs), and you want to spend less than a fortune on it, make it a DBX DriveRack. (I recommend the PA+ for starters)

http://www.dbxpro.com/PA+/index.php

Just get someone who knows a bunch about live sound to do a proper setup on it and get them to explain its usage a bit to you.. Even if it costs you a bit of money/beer for his/her help. A DriveRack has enough ability to really help, or really hurt the total sound.

[funkmeister]

Alright, so i am thinkin about gettin a small PA system. Problem - i have no idea what i would need. And honestly - i just have no understanding of how to hook up the thing. So buyin PA equipment is goin to be very intimidating for me.

So, my question. what would i need to get started? I wouldn't need like a million channels - only a few to run some mics off of.

Any help you can give me would be awesome! I know its a broad topic lol but im sure someone can help me out.

thanks!

- kayla.

i would spend the bucks and get the QSC K series K12's - light weight, CLEAN, 1000 watts and powerul enough for outdoors! Add a KSUB and get 1000 watts from a 2X12" compact cabinet and PLENTY of thump. Add a nice little Mackie or Yamaha rackmount 16 channel board and your in business!! It should all fit in your SUV!!

[Jasaoke]

I'll back up floodcitybrass on the sonic maximizer topic. They are the placebo of the audio world. I think they were invented to shut up people who didn't like a sound but couldn't say why or how to improve it.

[Hannibal]

We have a couple of small sound packages we use in our rental business. The most basic is a couple of Community 12" + HF boxes on stands, powered by a Soundcraft GigRac 1000ST. Sweet little powered mixer, compact, two amp channels at 500 watts per channel. Eight inputs, four can have phantom power, and a small EQ section. From there, it's a 16 channel Allen and Heath Mix Wizard in a rack case, with separate racks for the EQ, compressor/limiters, and the power amps. A couple of totes for cables, and it fits neatly in the back of a full sized van with up to eight speakers. It gets bigger from there, but then, it's not a "small PA" anymore.