We're Mad as hell and we're not gonna take this anymore

[FatVin]

Last night, I went and saw Blind Johnny Death at the Hitching Post. They were terriffic by the way, SEE THEM IF YOU CAN!

But as I walked from the parking lot around to the door I could hear music coming from the bar and my only thought was "man I hope no PLCB types are around."

This climate of fear has got to stop and stop NOW!

I had a talk with A couple of people and I'd like to propose that we do what we do best and that's play at a benefit show Take some Sunday and find a place and come and play, we can raise money to lobby the Gov. and raise awareness by getting the TV10 there maybe.

bitching about this on Rockpage isn't gonna help (no offense, Ron ,we love Rockpage but...you know)

We need to do something big and public to embarrass these bullies casue that's what they are. I wonder if we could find the names of all the PLCB agents who cover this area.

These are the people who are depribing Central Pennslyvania of an important art form and and much needed part of the local economy.

It isn't just bars and musicians who are suffering, It's the music stores, it's the records stores, it's the mall where you buy what you wear on stage, it's Denny's and Kings and Eat N Park where you go for breakfast, it's Sheetz where you buy gas to get to the next gig and cigs to smoke when you get there.

They keep saying "we're making too much noise"

I say

We're not making enough Noise

These people need to know we're mad as hell and we're not gonna take this anymore

We need some kind of demonstration, loud and public

remember, we've got the microphones!

[red]

Thanks for the shout out, and count us in!!!!

[bassist_25]

I propose that a show like this be played in a non-bar establishment. It would be too ironic for an anti-PLCB show to be busted by the PLCB.

[FatVin]

What!?!?

no way, let em bust us, more publicity, the crueler and more Gestapo like we can paint these idiots to be the better.

[ZappasXWife]

And someone had a good idea about Editorials in the Mirror...I think if anyone is inclined to send an intelligent letter to the Mirror (anyone who has talked to one disgruntled bar owner, huh JP...how insulting!), this is an excellent way to make more people aware. Does anyone think this will have an opposite effect, though? Like scaring bars from having bands play?

[DMFJ03]

::Puts on his "I got banned by the PLCB and All I Got Was This Crummy Fine" t-shirt::

Let's do it.

[Skate Toad]

I can talk to Aldo about a date if you guys want he has the system and a big stage and actually knock on wood hasn't had too much problem with the nazi's on noise. I think invites to city counsel members and maybe other big business people might be a good thing. If big business is behind us then they will stop and look a little bit closer. Maybe like a sponsership from sheetz or something along those lines, for example. I'm ready to do what all is needed. I can get a date at Aldo's and my band is willing to play. Radio ads are cheap on the buzz too $10 a spot. I like the idea of just pounding them with all we got. The underground might be able to cover it i could talk to chris about it once we have a plan. How cool would it to be if we got them on film being asses. Let's go Vin i'm ready to act not talk but act! Flyers, radio ads, a show date i can do.

Todd

[lonewolf]

One thing's for certain. Nothing can get done without funds. A little PR won't hurt either. Count me in.

[Ron]

Vin,
I've been reading a lot lately (again) on this subject, and it seems that if the city where the bar is located has a local noise ordinance, it trumps the PLCB laws. This might be a good thing to target city gov't officials with. Have them adopt sane rules with defined, measurable limits.

Aldo's would be a good place because he basically owns the block. No pissed off residents, no anonymous calls, no visit by the gestapo. I can't remember of his bar ever having a noise violation.

They could always do a random underage lockdown and check everyone's ID's, (I've seen that happen at Aldo's, with no violations), but if that happened it could get very interesting. I can hear the boo's now.

[tonefight]

Vin,
I've been reading a lot lately (again) on this subject, and it seems that if the city where the bar is located has a local noise ordinance, it trumps the PLCB laws. This might be a good thing to target city gov't officials with. Have them adopt sane rules with defined, measurable limits.

Thats a really good bit of info, so if a particular area sets a level the LCB officers must use the level as their means of measurement ?
That may be alot easier than over turning the LCB laws but it may vary from different areas.

[4daysdirtyjoe]

i know some guys that run this area only because they almost busted us 2 times. they are doing a good job at it to, but its not as bad as they think it is, i will do everything i possibly can to make a point to them that this is never going to go away, and we need to make a comprimise. but in the same token this can utterly piss them off and just bust anyone that is carrying an instrument in a bar even if your just a so called roadie. its sucks and there has got to be a comprimise. i have toaked personally to the chief for this area and i know that things can happen and i have enough nerve to try and setup a meeting where we can get things down to what they used to be, plus a petition never hurts either, as far as the sound thing thats really on the city police if im not mistaken........oh well, just a thought

[TJ Kelly]

Vinny as you and I were discussing the other night I think this would be an excellent idea, but we need support to make this work. Count SideStep in. We need some bar owners, business leaders and any and all city officals we can muster up. Nancy at the Victory Lane would be one for sure. We could always open this up to the public and any money raised could be given in part to a charity. Which would give us musicians some positive publicity. Let's get this rolling and "Git Err Done"!

[esa]

How cool would it to be if we got them on film being asses.

You've got my camera and my big mouth. Count me in. When you get info, I will whore it out for you.
If y'all are leary about doing it in a bar scene, or aldo's isn't too happy about it, perhaps we should come up with plan b... just in case. Another bar or someone's land. Hell, wouldn't it be funny if we did a show at Altoona's Keiths Country/Western/Music Emporium / Wal*Mart's parking lot?!
Long live music and the roughians who support and make it!!!

[Ron]

Thats a really good bit of info, so if a particular area sets a level the LCB officers must use the level as their means of measurement ?
That may be alot easier than over turning the LCB laws but it may vary from different areas.

Here's info from an article from the Herald in Sharon, PA., (edited for length), from March 2003. The bad thing about Sharon's noise ordinance? No PA systems can be used in the city after 10:00 PM, and no defined acoustic levels. Yikes. The ordinance was in response to resident complaints about a "Bike Night" event at a local bar.

Noise violators could see jail, hefty fine

By Kristen Garrett
Herald Staff Writer

Anyone making too much noise in Sharon could find themselves slapped with a hefty fine or even jailed under the city's new noise ordinance.

The ordinance, which takes effect today, limits the times which "unreasonably loud or raucous" noise can take place and it limits the duration of that noise and where it can occur.

Unreasonable noise is defined in the ordinance as: "Any noise which is so harsh, prolonged, unnatural or unusual in time or place as to occasion unreasonable discomfort to any persons within the neighborhood from which said noises eminate ..."

Violators could be fined up to $500 and/or have to spend 30 days in jail.

... Anyone with a radio, television, stereos, musical instruments and other devices that are "plainly audible" at a distance of 50 feet could be in violation of the ordinances.

Loudspeakers, amplifiers and public address systems may not be used between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. on weekdays and 10 p.m. and 10 a.m. on weekends and holidays in or adjacent to residential areas.
This rule does not apply to any public performance, gathering or parade for which a permit has been obtained. Anyone who plans to hold an outdoor event or gathering must see the city clerk for a permit. The cost of the permit is $25.

That means that Three By The River would have to obtain a permit for their Bike Night festivities. Bike Night is one of the reasons the owners of the downtown Sharon business asked city council in February to adopt the new noise ordinance.

Three By The River was under the noise ordinance guidelines set by the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. The PLCB's ordinances prohibited any noise that could be heard off of the premises.

Since the city has adopted a new ordinance, Three By The River and other businesses that serve alcohol are no longer under the noise ordinance established by the PLCB.

Ryan said the city's old noise ordinance was very vague and police usually cited someone with disorderly conduct if they were very loud.

"Ordinances never got as technical as they are today," he said.

You can e-mail Herald Staff Writer Kristen Garrett at:
kgarrett@sharonherald.com

[Ron]

Here's a link to a database of PLCB hearings. For a list of noise violations, just do a search for "loudspeaker".

http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/search/aljsearch.asp

[Skate Toad]

I'm curious how the the ball field in lakemont can get away with it. They make more noise over their PA system than any bar ever will. I've never been there but i imagine they sell beer there don't they?? I say that the PLCB needs to shut them down for noise. I mean in all fairness right..... They should storm the stadium take the managers, owners and players out into the parking lot and threaten each one of them with fines. Hell i know i can hear all the noise from there and i live by the Knickerbocker close to 2 miles away. If the ball park does infact serve beer i think that should be a very valid point brought against the PLCB.
Todd

[esa]

It does sell beer.
That's another thing that cracks me up about the ball park. You can have people drinking like fish... spilling shit all over you.... being annoying...swearing.. flipping fingers.... but you have to go to a designated area to smoke. ::blinks:: It's outside! In the fresh air! Nooo.. but you can smoke in the corridoors where there isn't as much air blowing through. How's that work????!!!!??????

[DMFJ03]

It was probably said before, but... why couldn't we just all turn down? It's an easy solution to a annoying problem? Isn't?

[Skate Toad]

Yeah but i think the point is we are being picked on and having our rights takin away. We need to take a stand as best as we can! If they keep taking away our freedoms then the only thing legal down the road will be playing air guitar and drums on a stage in a smoke free bar(no biggie to me) drinking only a half of budweiser(yuck) from 7-8pm on sat. before we are ushered back to our homes and locked in for the night!
No disrespect i see your point of taking the easy road but too much is at stake!


So lets talk dates for an awareness benefit show.

[songsmith]

You can only turn down so far. Even clubs playing the radio in the background are getting warnings... even acoustic acts. I'm all for turning down, as someone who needs his ears for his living... but it's not about the actual sound pressure, it's about political and social pressure. It goes back to when I practiced in a barn in the early 80's, and the old curmudgeon down the road called the cops. If we were running a chainsaw, loud was okay, constructive, even. Not longhair rock and roll. Pennsylvania is greying by the minute, second largest elderly population in the country, and they swing HUGE political power because they have nothing better to do than vote on Election Day. They're also the group least likely to remember that they raised hell when they were younger... they're too busy staring mortality in the face.---->JMS

[FatVin]

Wow, I guess we ARE Mad as hell....cool. I've heard some great ideas and some valid concerns so far. I've never organized one of these things before, all I know how to do is show up and play and make speeches.

I like the idea of Aldo's cause A. He owns the block, B. it's big and we can get a lot of people in there and C. it's Aldo, Nobody gonna mess with him too much. SO I guess we need a date.
no disrespect to Victory Lane, but I think we need a big room, the biggest we can get.

I would prefer a Sunday, Cause A. It's a generally a slow news day and we're more likley to get some press and B. it lets us musicians make a buck and a statement in the same weekend without having to sacrifice either.

Once we have a date and place then we can worry about who's playing and what time and maybe we can get a few people to speak. It would be nice to have a legitimate dignitary like a PA house rep or State Senator but since they probably won't come, business leaders and local civic BMOC's will do fine, anyway, I'm sure we can find somebody will have something to say. God Knows I will wanna put my 2 cents in.

Somebody talked about getting video of the Gestapo tactics, man wouldn't that be nice, good luck but if you or any of your IMF team are caught or captured, The Secretary might have to Disavow all knowledge, know-what-I-mean.

We have to show that we're serious and that we take our rights seriuosly and that we're not just "Fighting for our right to party". The law is, as written, vaugue and selectivley enforced. and That''s wrong and unamerican.

We don't want special privildges we just want Government off our back

In the Declaration of Independance, Thomas Jefferson wrote that among the self-evident natural rights of man is the pursuit of happiness, live music is our happiness and for the Government of This City, this State or even the Government of the United States iteself, to infringe upon our pursuit of it is a slap in the face to our founding fathers, our citizens and the Ideals of this great Nation. This injustice cannot stand unopposed.

We ARE mad as hell and we're not gonna take this anymore!

[Skate Toad]

Give me a time frame, a month from now, 2/3/4??? As far as sunday i like that because then few on here will have the i have another gig excuse for not being there. And no competing with other shows. The only down side is getting Aldo to agree with a sunday. (but i will deal with that) Well throw me a time frame and i will go see about availble dates.

[FatVin]

I'm thinking that if we're gonna raise money then we should give people time to pay off X-mas bills and maybe get Tax refunds....Late Feb Early March...plenty of time to promote and coordinate. If anybody else has a thought.........

[Billy]

Good idea man. I suggested this a couple weeks ago and got no response. But concider Billy and The Inmates in!! Somebody has to stop this gestapo before they stop us.

[Skate Toad]

I will talk to Aldo this weekend and see what he has late feb early march.