Favorite composer of the 20th century?

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Dec 07, 2004

Title says it all....

Mine is Aaron Copland followed closely by Gershwin.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tuesday Dec 07, 2004

Frank Zappa

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Tuesday Dec 07, 2004

Copeland is really awesome...I remember the first time I actually heard Fanfare for the Common Man...

Stravinsky is an excellent one...polyrythyms, polychords, good stuff....

I think my favorite piece is Cages 4'33"....lol, j/j...I was told he did a speech this way too, that had to be odd to say the least...

homerski · Post by **homerski** » Tuesday Dec 07, 2004

Definitely Aaron Copeland. A close second is Leroy Anderson.

The Face in the Face · Post by **The Face in the Face** » Tuesday Dec 07, 2004

Igor Stravinsky and/or Frank Zappa

Stravinsky was one of Zappa's favorite composers and it is obvious in some of Frank's compositions. Don't make the mistake of thinking that Zappa was a comedy musician, he did the goofy songs to make money so he could make real music... listen to Hot Rats, The Yellow Shark, The Grand Wazoo, etc and tell me that Frank Zappa wasn't 1.) ahead of his time, 2.) a genius, 3.) musicially one of the greatest composers of the West.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Dec 07, 2004

Punkinhead wrote: I think my favorite piece is Cages 4'33"....lol, j/j...I was told he did a speech this way too, that had to be odd to say the least...

In my ultimate quest of laziness, I've often thought that it would be great to do a cover of 4' 33".

I guess the situation at the end of the night where the house lights are turned on and the crowd is ready to maim you if you don't play an encore is similar to 4' 33".

Good calls on Frank Zappa. I don't know why he escaped my mind, but he's definatley a legitimate composer. He also epitomizes 20th century composition because of all of the dissonance he uses. A lot of people didn't dig music from Ives, Debussy and Stravinsky because it was so atonal. Zappa's music is definatley atonal. And no wiser words were ever spoken than "Watch out where the huskies go, and don't eat the yellow snow".

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Wednesday Dec 08, 2004

Please define Composer. More specifically, what is the difference between composer and songwriter? How about composer and arranger?
Does the music have to be Classical or Jazz, no rock? Why? I have played the viola and devoured Classical music when I played piano (really want to get back into that someday), and taken several great music classes in college but still do not understand this definition/distinction.
I think Frank Zappa was a great composer, and is widely considered a true 'Composer', but would never call his music only Classical OR Jazz.
I think composer means you have written the music for all of the instuments including vox. Where does the genre fit into the definition?
Considering what I think a composer is:
1. Frank Zappa. Frank is king, and good explanation Face the Face. Comedy sold him but his huge body of work defined him.
2. John Cage. Would be no Frank Zappa without this influence.
3. John Phillips. Whether you like Mamas & Papas or not, this guy arranged voices like perfection. But not a true Composer?
4. Duke Ellington. SMOOTH. Satin Doll was a piano piece I liked to play. Great timing.
5. Lennon/McCartney? Probably does not fit def of Composer (but why?). One thing I know is that John Lennon could not read music-prerequisite of a true Composer?
6. Rodgers/Hammerstein. Show tunes bore me, but Janis Joplin's interpretation of Little Girl Blue is absolutely beautiful.

I would really like feedback to the questions I posed musicians.

Banana Fandango · Post by **Banana Fandango** » Wednesday Dec 08, 2004

I like Manheim Steamroller the best. And although he is more of an interpreter of the compositions of others, Michael Flatley rules in Lord of the Dance. If anyone has ever seen him in his "Feet of Flames" performance, you will know what I'm talking about.

Post by **Ron** » Wednesday Dec 08, 2004

Quincy Jones

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Wednesday Dec 08, 2004

ZappasWife wrote: 4. Duke Ellington. SMOOTH.

Word....

Bassist I think I have achieved true virtuosity on the 4'33"...lol...I can that with my eyes closed, my guitar in its case, and with all the strings ripped off, yet somehow it still sounds perfect!!!! lol

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Thursday Dec 09, 2004

But can anyone answer the questions I posed, really want to know...

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Dec 09, 2004

A composer to me is someone who writes music that falls either in the Art Music (Baroque, Classical, Romantic, ect.) category or the Jazz category. They have extensive knowledge both about composition and arranging. The guy who writes a three-chord AC/DC tune is not a composer. The guy who writes an Impressionist piece, a fugue, or an aria is a composer.

But what are labels anyways? When I say "composer", I'm assuming that people realize that I'm talking about people who write scores, symphonies, concertos, operas, tone poems, ect.

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Thursday Dec 09, 2004

But Zappa never wrote any of those and you bassist 25 called him a Composer...

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Dec 09, 2004

Zappa wrote a lot of avant-garde stuff that would fall under the categories of minimalism, expressionism, serialism, ect. so I would consider him a composer. Basically what I was getting at is the guy who writes intricate music with multiple parts is a composer; they guy who writes simple pop-rock in 4/4 time is not. (but that's not playing down the awesomeness of pop rock in 4/4 time)

DennySD · Post by **DennySD** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

Steve Reich and Benjamin Britten. Oh and Philip Glass... if you haven't heard "Glassworks" it's quite an experience.

Never was into the whole atonality thing. Although George Crumb wrote some of the most frightening music I've ever heard. They just had a Morton Feldman festival here in Pittsburgh... his work is interesting but not something I can really sit down and enjoy without concentrating.

It's easy to blur the lines of "20th Century" music, especially now that we're in the 21st century and some of those composers are still kicking. And people like Sun Ra and Frank Zappa who dabbled in this and that... If you're looking for a starting point to what most people consider "20th Century" music, Kronos put out a 10 disc anthology a few years ago, though it's all late-20th century.

Oh... and most of Zappa's work outside the rock idiom was written out in scores. You think he just decided to wing "Jazz from Hell?"

DennySD · Post by **DennySD** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

I just remembered... Lieberman's Suite for Jazz Band and Orchestra - that's an atonal piece worth listening to. It's twelvetone and jazz at the same time.

I was thinking about the question of what constitutes a composer... now that I think about it I'd have to say it's anyone that writes out music that they themselves don't necessarily have to play... someone else can pick up the paper and play pretty much what they intended without hearing prior recordings of it.

I'd probably contrast that with a tunesmith or a songwriter, who usually performs his/her own piece, and follows a melody/words/chords format. John Lennon, though one of my favorites, I would not call a composer. If you can't read music, then you can't write music down, though you may be able to play it. Just like if you can't read, then you can't write, though you may be an excellent talker. But then McCartney, think about all that instrumentation in "Live and Let Die"... he blurs the line a bit more. Zappa I would no doubt put in both categories because he is such a staple in both categories... he was one of the few who really were a jack of all trades. Duke Ellington, someone brought up earlier, I'd say is another -- he wrote the tunes (many of which however were actually Billy Strayhorn's tunes) and arranged them for his band, and performed them himself.

esa · Post by **esa** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

Did you see..it was last week on 60 minutes (whatever that show's called)... this kid..he's like 11 yrs old now.... He composed his first syphony before the age of 9. Most people only compose 12 or less in their whole life times...he's up past 60. He taught himself how to read the music...he was drawing music from the day he first picked up a crayon.. he hears massive sonattas in his head.... several things playing at the same time... learning how to play piano so he can play his own things... i saw this kid and got floored. dayuuuummmmn! he is considered a musical genious. is taking classes at the local university (is 11 and taking college courses).... and oh yeah.. he plays bethtoven music backwards and upside down for fun.
Just thought I'd share that one...

What were you doing when you were 11....?

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

Esa, at 11 I was playing Beethoven & Chopin (Chopin extra hard though, barely could play that))on piano for fun...my mom taught but I refused to learn from her and taught myself. (brat). Never mastered the backward thing though. That 60 minutes clip on same show as Dylan's interview? I will be able to watch it then cause have that taped. Dylan my man...
Jazz from Hell (Zappa): funny about that, was one of those albums that got the Censored label slapped on it by Tippi Gore, the music expert.
Jazz from Hell: All instrumental. (ZappasWife confused

)

esa · Post by **esa** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

::noddles:: I was doing Etudes and Bet and Chop and Motz and etc when I was younger too...just.. this kid didn't have a music lesson in his life....the notes just started forming in his head... when he was a toddler, he'd draw cello's for the notes...he'd never seen a cello before... it was... it was... i don't know. genious. scarey. awesome. i don't know.. but i do know this... the kid sleeps and breathes music...great things will come from him..

the herald · Post by **the herald** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

I think that Jean Michael Jarre takes the cake in my book for his ability to compose music with classical style yet he does it all on synthesizers and adds samples & his own style to create sort of a classidelic feeling. check out his albums zoolook and equinox if you want a real mindblowing experience. some others in this genre include tangerine dream, synergy, and kraftwerk.

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

Re Kraftwerk...I like the word Autoban, I think I will start using this inplace of parkway, bypass, freeway, ect. in conversation just to see what looks I get.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

Mozart, at the age of 7, saw a symphony with his dad and went home an re played the entire thing back...

I'd like to believe that this kid is that good, the world needs another true prodigy, as there really hasn't been one in a long time.
Although, as with anything on TV, I can't believe much of it, no matter how hard I try. I'd have to see his 60 symphonies...because alot of compositional material could be crap...

But like I said, if he is I'd be excited about it.

The Face in the Face · Post by **The Face in the Face** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

Zappa's Jazz From Hell better be all composed, it'd be hard to improvise an album completely created digitally with the help of a computer.

Piano pieces with pitch-bends make my mind melt and smile.

I'd like to discuss Jazz From Hell and compare it to earlier works, but I don't want to hijack a thread.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

The Face in the Face wrote: I'd like to discuss Jazz From Hell and compare it to earlier works, but I don't want to hijack a thread.

Feel free to hijack.

When I made this thread, I intended for people to expand the discussion. A thread is a living breathing entity. I'm not the navigator; I'm merely a passenger. *LOL*

And speaking of Mozart - Didn't he use to compose operas while playing pool?

Post by **Ron** » Friday Dec 10, 2004

bassist_25 wrote:Feel free to hijack. When I made this thread, I intended for people to expand the discussion. A thread is a living breathing entity. I'm not the navigator; I'm merely a passenger. *LOL*

And speaking of Mozart - Didn't he use to compose operas while playing pool?

No, but I saw a show on 60 minutes about professional pool players. It's amazing how much money they make. LOL.

:: lets bassist_25 back into his seat on the living breathing entity. ::
:: apoligizes for making fun of esa's failed hijack attempt. ::