Bar Owner Looking For Advice

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bassist_25
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Post by bassist_25 »

bsaller wrote:
VENTGtr wrote:Big John,

Those two beers are bought by those patrons not handed out for free.

If the people who come in when they normally wouldn't have and stay they pay for a lot more than two beers.
If the patron can't afford a $3.00 cover, he probably can't afford more than 2 beers!
:roll:
The economic axiom that "people make rational decisions" is not always true. Perhaps patrons don't like paying an initial upfront cost of getting into a bar even if there's a law of diminishing returns with consideration of how many drinks they'll pay for. I don't know. :? It would make for an interesting study, though.
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funny

Post by Mysterytrain »


Just make sure the light under the "C" stays lit.
:D
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Post by Lisa »

We dumped a lot of money the first few years into print and radio. We really didn't see the results because people would come in and ask us if we advertised in such and such or on this radio station or that...And we were...

We have found that most people in our target age group are online. So that is where we focus. We have a basic web page, a facebook page and a myspace page. Keeping things up to date is important though. We have an outside sign that we put up weekly information.

We also put up inside signage...especially if the band provides.

One piece of advice I have is to pay more attention to those bands that work on self promotion. Don't fall for booking bands that say they have a huge following but no way of contacting them to let them know they are playing in the area. This is one of the main reason we say you have to play for the door now. So often we had bands get mad at us because nobody showed up but they did nothing to promote their band themselves.

There are bands out there that do a wonderful job with providing signs (vent, silver sunday, bodacious b) and there are some that go out of their way to plan events for venues to make the night there more memorable to the fans (trying to think of the name of the one that plays at Osceola Hotel ...they do a great job with events including decorating). Some do an awesome job promoting online with facebook and myspace.

This is a great site for information but there are not a lot of fans here. Promoting here is limited to mainly other band members.

I want to try TV at some point....but we are still figuring things out ourselves and just are not ready for that expense yet.
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bassist_25
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Post by bassist_25 »

Lisa wrote:

This is a great site for information but there are not a lot of fans here. Promoting here is limited to mainly other band members.
I don't know what the fan-to-musician ratio is here, but there are quite a bit of lurkers who visit. I think Ron said that something like 1 out of every 3 visitors actually posts. But yeah, if a band throws up a thread in the Shows forum and thinks that its promotion duties are done, the band members are going to be sadly disappointed.

In my experience, a promotion technique, at least from the band's promotion angle, that does NOT work is street teams. I don't know if it's that street teams themself are kind of worthless per se, or if bands just don't put in the effort to grow and motivate street teams. Maybe they're more effective in the DIY scene, but in my experience, people on street teams start off really motivated but then they often just fizzle out. Perhaps it is because they don't have enough intrinsic motivation to promote a local band for a long time; so maybe bands aren't taking the needed leadership steps to motivate the street teams. Also, a lot of street teams seem to just send MySpace and Facebook emails promoting shows, which the band can already do itself. I always found it annoying to get an email or event invitation from a band only to get an email or event invitation from someone on the street team. A street team should be tapping marketing sectors and demographics that the band doesn't normally have access to or doesn't have the time and resources itself to tap into; if the band's sending MySpace bulletins and emails, obviously they have that part of marketing under control.

I don't know; what's everyone else's opinion on street teams?
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Post by lonewolf »

Whatever it takes....

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missed something

Post by TheBMC »

don't forget the other free avenues of marketing.... You need to be on Facebook and create a page for your bar ... you can blast it out FREE and get people caught on to it. I'm 29 and the first places I think about going to if I'm out to catch a band is one that I can look up online and know who's playing, what time they are playing, what they play, how much the cover is...ect. If i can't look it up on rockpage or FB in a couple minutes I probably won't be there... Unless of course it's a friends band or something along those lines.... . You can start threads and do event invites ect. ect....

In fact I would be willing to help him out getting a FB site up running and what not for a Booking. We are booking thru the end of the year currently. =-)
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Post by dayzichick »

Facebook has exploded and it's FREE, I agree to develop a page, but don't just leave it at that, advertise in your bar for your patrons to become a fan on Facebook. Have your bartenders and wait staff ask patrons if they know you have a FB page . . .word of mouth is so much bigger than anything else in my opinion.

Also don't hire crap just to have someone in there or just because that is all you can afford. If someone is willing to play for almost nothing, that's what you are going to get, no talent nothing. I've seen this happening too often recently in my hometown and it makes me just want to stay home and not go anywhere. People around here are getting hired strictly off low price and what does that do to the rest of us who have the talent and have been making the money through the years, it lowballs us and it is taking us backwards in salary. Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of it. You talented musicians out there, charge for your talent!!!!!!!!!!! This is one of the hardest things to do and not everyone can do it so start seeing it as a commodity and not a "ok, I'll settle for $50 a night cause that's all the bar can pay" Screw that!!!!!!!!! I'd rather play on my front porch than settle.

My point is, if I walk into a bar and the band sucks, I have one drink and leave. Every band is going to tell you they are awesome and they draw, get demos and listen before you hire.
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Post by Hawk »

I've copied and pasted these pages and Emailed them to Alex. So he is getting the word from each of you.

Thanks so much.
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Post by bsaller »

dayzichick wrote: Also don't hire crap just to have someone in there or just because that is all you can afford. If someone is willing to play for almost nothing, that's what you are going to get, no talent nothing. I've seen this happening too often recently in my hometown and it makes me just want to stay home and not go anywhere. People around here are getting hired strictly off low price and what does that do to the rest of us who have the talent and have been making the money through the years, it lowballs us and it is taking us backwards in salary. Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of it. You talented musicians out there, charge for your talent!!!!!!!!!!! This is one of the hardest things to do and not everyone can do it so start seeing it as a commodity and not a "ok, I'll settle for $50 a night cause that's all the bar can pay" Screw that!!!!!!!!! I'd rather play on my front porch than settle.

My point is, if I walk into a bar and the band sucks, I have one drink and leave. Every band is going to tell you they are awesome and they draw, get demos and listen before you hire.
I agree 100% The bands that lowball every gig they do are killing talented muscians! I've been playing for 40 plus years and made more money in the 80's than now. Not because the band was any better, hell we're still the same guys! A lot of bar owners don't seem to understand "you get what you pay for" Most bars used to have a built in clientel, but it seems they been driven out by lousy bands and DJ's. Now you're supposed to bring your own bus-load of people and sell tickets and drive to Pittsburgh or God nows where. So a band takes all the risks and the club owner makes the money. Fuck them!!! I'll stay home and watch TV! :evil:
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Post by bassist_25 »

bsaller wrote:
dayzichick wrote: Also don't hire crap just to have someone in there or just because that is all you can afford. If someone is willing to play for almost nothing, that's what you are going to get, no talent nothing. I've seen this happening too often recently in my hometown and it makes me just want to stay home and not go anywhere. People around here are getting hired strictly off low price and what does that do to the rest of us who have the talent and have been making the money through the years, it lowballs us and it is taking us backwards in salary. Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of it. You talented musicians out there, charge for your talent!!!!!!!!!!! This is one of the hardest things to do and not everyone can do it so start seeing it as a commodity and not a "ok, I'll settle for $50 a night cause that's all the bar can pay" Screw that!!!!!!!!! I'd rather play on my front porch than settle.

My point is, if I walk into a bar and the band sucks, I have one drink and leave. Every band is going to tell you they are awesome and they draw, get demos and listen before you hire.
I agree 100% The bands that lowball every gig they do are killing talented muscians! I've been playing for 40 plus years and made more money in the 80's than now. Not because the band was any better, hell we're still the same guys! A lot of bar owners don't seem to understand "you get what you pay for" Most bars used to have a built in clientel, but it seems they been driven out by lousy bands and DJ's. Now you're supposed to bring your own bus-load of people and sell tickets and drive to Pittsburgh or God nows where. So a band takes all the risks and the club owner makes the money. Fuck them!!! I'll stay home and watch TV! :evil:
And what the hell's up with promoters getting local bands on bills with national headliners, and then asking the local band to sell tickets to support the show? If the national headliner isn't a big enough draw to pay for itself, maybe the promoter shouldn't be booking that headliner!

Okay, I know that's one of my long term gripes, right up there with guitar players scooping their mids. :D
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Post by songsmith »

Again the Facebook factor: When you create a fanpage, you get a page with the demographics and various metrics of the people who read or respond. I know exactly the gender makeup of Mama Corn's FB contacts, their age groups, how involved they are with the band, where they're from... it's incredible data that would normally cost a lot of money if you commissioned a researcher. Oddly, Mama Corn's biggest audience group is female, ages 25-45, followed closely by males of the same age. I never would have guessed that in a million years, I thought we skewed a lot older, with a lot more sausage.
Don't under estimate Myspace either... we continue to get a fair percentage of our shows from people who found us on Myspace, and we have European fans who've never been to the US. How cool is that?--->JMS
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Post by mjb »

plus a fan from johnstown.... how cool is that!
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Post by witchhunt »

bassist_25 wrote: And what the hell's up with promoters getting local bands on bills with national headliners,
This may not be your point but, if I'm going to see a national act, I sure as Hell don't want to sit through a band that I can go see on any given weekend.
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Post by Ron »

songsmith wrote:Oddly, Mama Corn's biggest audience group is female, ages 25-45, followed closely by males of the same age. I never would have guessed that in a million years, I thought we skewed a lot older, with a lot more sausage.
Don't forget that those stats are going to be skewed, Johnny. I researched some of this already and the 25-45 age group is 74% of facebook users. The male/female split is 43%/57%.
... and then the wheel fell off.
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bassist_25
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Post by bassist_25 »

Ron wrote:
songsmith wrote:Oddly, Mama Corn's biggest audience group is female, ages 25-45, followed closely by males of the same age. I never would have guessed that in a million years, I thought we skewed a lot older, with a lot more sausage.
Don't forget that those stats are going to be skewed, Johnny. I researched some of this already and the 25-45 age group is 74% of facebook users. The male/female split is 43%/57%.
In social research, it's a concept called external validity. It's the ability to accurately generalize a population based upon the findings from what is assumed to be a representative sample. It's the foundation of inferential statistics (as opposed to parameters, which are calculations done on whole populations) and is why random selection is used when recruiting participants for a study. If the majority of Mama Corn's fans were Facebook users, then Johnny could make a cogent inference of his fan's demographics. However, if there are a lot of people who are not computer savvy or just don't get on Facebook, then the assumption would be wrong.

And now you know...

Image

Of there's also the question of whether the average Facebook-using Mama Corn fan also is representative of the average Facebook user.
witchhunt wrote:This may not be your point but, if I'm going to see a national act, I sure as Hell don't want to sit through a band that I can go see on any given weekend.
Haha, true dat. I don't begrudge local bands that open for national headliners but that is a good point.
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Post by bsaller »

Kudos..Bassist_25! Couldn't have said it any better myself. :wink:
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Post by hannible »

Hey you guys.....cmon out to The Old Canal Inn tonight, and see for yourselves whats happening! You can sit in with The House Band, and get a birds eye view....Talk with Alex, and maybe get a booking :D As a trio, we like playing here...We fit well with the locals, being from Hollidaysburg, we know most of them, and Alex and Lorna treat us well! A small room keeps us close to our fans, and we like that..Don`t forget benefit for Big John`s grandaughter...I ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th, at 30 Something, with Felix and The Hurricanes, Half Tempted, The Verge, The Hawks, and The House Band!!!
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Post by songsmith »

Jeez, you could have let the little fat dude go on thinking that chicks dig him. Thanks for the reality. :lol: --->JMS
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Post by lonewolf »

hannible wrote:Hey you guys.....cmon out to The Old Canal Inn tonight, and see for yourselves whats happening! You can sit in with The House Band, and get a birds eye view....Talk with Alex, and maybe get a booking :D As a trio, we like playing here...We fit well with the locals, being from Hollidaysburg, we know most of them, and Alex and Lorna treat us well! A small room keeps us close to our fans, and we like that..Don`t forget benefit for Big John`s grandaughter...I ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th, at 30 Something, with Felix and The Hurricanes, Half Tempted, The Verge, The Hawks, and The House Band!!!
Although we offered, nobody contacted us about playing the Rock For Leah show. Just to clarify...

On APRIL 30, 9PM, THE VERGE will be playing at the topic of this thread:

THE OLD CANAL INN


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Post by hicksjd9 »

People who won't pay cover are bar hoppers. They will probably not stay long enough to drink two beers whether the band kicks ass or not. If I were a bar owner, I would not hesitate for one second to charge a cover. I might do a five dollar cover/promo where you pay cover and get 50 cents or a buck off every drink. Now that might actually keep people there. Cheaper drinks and good entertainment.
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Post by hannible »

Don`t forget, it`s against the liquor laws to reduce the price of drinks for more than 2 hours per day...Most bars may use those 2 hours for happy hour...If you increase the price of drinks for say 4 hours during a gig, you have actually reduced your prices for the rest of the 24hour day or 20 hours...according to the LCB, you may be in violation...that means they can bust the bar...if they can, they probabily will.... :cry:
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Post by Jim Price »

I paid my first visit to the Old Canal Inn on Friday night, and I think it has potential to be a nice room for live music.

As with any new venue, Alex will learn through trial and error what succeeds and what doesn't, and grow it from there. It can take some time; venues don't grow into hotspots overnight. It's probably more realistic and affordable to grow it over time as resources and budget permit; rather than going for the big knockout punch off the bat, running up excessive debt for the big bang and not being able to maintain that initial momentum (i.e. Roadhouse on 747).

I remember when Peter C's first started; it was just a long bar, and bands played in the corner. Big John tweaked and developed it over time, eventually busting out a wall and expanding it, plus having an actual stage installed. It took a few years to get to that point.

Several good points have been made here. I agree with ToonaRockGuy; be consistent with your advertising so you're maintaining a steady presence in front of your target audience. Whether you're using broadcast media, internet, social networking or print; if people see your business' name on a consistent basis, it starts to stick in their head and they begin to remember the name. (This is how Pennsylvania Musician is most effective, running an ad in the magazine each month builds continuity and recognizability...admittedly, shameless plug.) Then if people decide to give you a try, give them a quality experience (good atmosphere, service, good food/drink and entertainment), and they will be back.

I liked my first visit to Old Canal Inn...I'll definitely be back!
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Post by BigJohn »

Does the Old Canal Inn still have there Famous Friday Night Fish Dinners ... I sure Hope so that what put that place on the map .
EYE ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th AT 30 SOMETHING ...
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