Bar Owner Looking For Advice

[Hawk]

We played (for the first time) a nice little bar in Hollidaysburg last night. The Old Canal Inn. We had a very nice small crowd, with a few Rockpagers sprinkled in (thanks guys).

Alex, the owner, has never had bands before. He is completely new to adding bands to his establishment.

Alex is looking for advice from us, as to how he can get the word out that The Old Canal Inn will have bands every Friday night. Like, Where to advertise etc.. He found dollar for dollar, radio doesn't pay off, or if he did radio advertising, where is the best place?

He seems to be catering to 30+ age group. And his venue is small. Probably not looking to hire 80s hair bands (not that there's anything wrong with that ). The House band has played there a few times and I think The Verge booked a gig with him last night. And we'll be back there May 21st.

We'd like to help a new venue that wants LIVE MUSIC to get off the ground!

So Rockpagers, What advice can you offer to Alex to get the word out ?

Thanks!
Bill

[Bag]

"Live Music Friday Nights" in big letters on a sign out front. He could join here and post who's playing in the "Upcoming Shows" section too.

[bassist_25]

In my experience, being consistent with booking really helps with maintaining a crowd. That means consistently booking quality acts and getting a good 6 or 8 bands in a rotation - or 12 acts, if the venue has more than one night a week of entertainment. One mistake I see new club owners make is going all-out and booking 35 different acts, many of them high-dollar acts. The third band may had a great night, but nobody is going to remember who they are when they finally get back on the venue's stage 7 months after their debut.

[lonewolf]

"Live Music Friday Nights" in big letters on a sign out front. He could join here and post who's playing in the "Upcoming Shows" section too.

Ditto on that. The Old Canal has a huge sign right on route 22. Its a free billboard, may as well use it.

Just make sure the light under the "C" stays lit.

[VENTGtr]

Agree with Paul.

Also, bands that work for his venue with, say, an every 6 week rotation. Too often, though, and people figure they've seen them before and may go somewhere else.

Also, tell him to pay fair (Within his means, but so it makes it worthwhile for the bands) and most of all, NO COVER.

Just the words "NO COVER" will bring people. If people come in for that reason and buy 2 beers each, the amount from the cover is paid and there'll be more people checking things out. Especially for a new a/o smaller place.

Seems counter-intuitive, and venue owners always seem to think/like the idea that they're "covering their costs". In fact, they're keeping a segment away.

Tell bands the flat rate (Which he can vary if the band draws a reasonable number, etc.) or, if the bands wants to do a door, their call/risk.

[VENTGtr]

Just make sure the light under the "C" stays lit.

May end up with a crowd with another set of expectations!

[RobTheDrummer]

Only book bands that have their own sound. That would cut costs for both the band and bar owner. Do like a $3 cover, most people don't have a problem with that.

[songsmith]

Just make sure the light under the "C" stays lit.

Classic!--->JMS

[songsmith]

Don't try to be all things to everyone. If you book bands, stay with a format, like roots, or heavy stuff, or dancey stuff. Above all, don't have DJ's or karaoke on a weekend night, ever. It dilutes your live audience, and they don't know what to expect. People in Blair County like knowing what to expect.
Put a sign up out front that say, "BLUEGRASS TONIGHT." --->JMS

[BigJohn]

Bars can't aford to pay bands with no cover ... many have tried none last ... those two beers that you say make up for the free cover had to be payed for by the bar owner and the person who handed them had to be payed to serve them to you and the cooler that kept them cold had to be plugged in to penelec and serviced by a repair man, also there's insurance and mortgage and heat ... So those two beers probably made the owner a quater in his pocket so now you have to sell a case of beer (24) to just break even on a three dollar cover .

[VENTGtr]

Big John,

I disagree. Especially with smaller places with competition around. We play places that make it a point that they don't charge a cover and have said they couldn't compete with others if they did.

Those two beers are bought by those patrons not handed out for free.

If the people who come in when they normally wouldn't have and stay they pay for a lot more than two beers.

Those coolers are running and that bartender is standing back there regardless.

I've had bar owners say they've had a lot of people tell them they'd come to those places to see more bands but don't want to pay a cover.

If the bar is paying "alot" for bands, it's getting the people that it can charge a cover, if it's smaller and is paying a more modest amount, it needs to find ways to get people in.

[mjb]

i say if your too godamn cheap to pay a two or three dollor cover, stay the fuck home, you can't afford to go out and shouldn't. i'm with big john on this one. sounds good from a band rospective but not from a business owner prospective.

[nakedtwister]

I think Alex also has to work on the room itself. It's a little dreary down there. Also the pool table needs to be easily movable to make room for more people. Glad he wants to make it work.

[VENTGtr]

Mebbe, but that's the reality of it nowadays. Plus, being that approach works for places, and they're not about to change how they do it, and the opposite hasn't been for a lot, worth trying.

[BigJohn]

VENTgtr
I didn't mean the two beer were given away ... But even paid for the profit on two beers after all the overhead is about a quater ... TRUST me I owned a club for fifteen years ... and If there's exception to a bar thats been having bands for any length of time and not charging cover I'd like to know who they are ???

[metal_junky]

and If there's exception to a bar thats been having bands for any length of time and not charging cover I'd like to know who they are ???

Hillside Tavern - Only time they ever charge a cover is when they are having entertainment that they are paying alot for like "David Allen Coe", "Confederate Railroad", or "Back in Black". What they do is raise the price of the drinks during entertainment instead of a cover charge.

[sunsetbass]

i used to play at peter c's and john is right. its tough to cover the cost of a band with no cover. people will bitch about paying a cover and they will bitch about paying more for their drinks. i dont really thunk it matters either way. people are gonna bitch. even if everything is free, they will still find something to complain about.

[Hawk]

Help us out here. We don't need an argument in this thread on cover charge vs. no cover charge. Alex can figure that out for himself.

He's looking for advice on the best way to get the word out that The Old Canal Inn will have LIVE (NO DJ) music every Friday night.

It cracks me up . We need to argue in every thread. Must be a carry over from the political threads.

Any more ideas to help out Alex ?

[riksylvania]

Just make sure the light under the "C" stays lit.

[JackANSI]

It is an important part of the process here Hawk..

If radio doesn't work for him, then you have papers, billboards, and tv. The same methods everyone uses for advertising.

Alex needs to find something to stand out if the method didn't work before, and no cover can be that stand-out 'feature'. The bars around here are dealing with a majorly oversaturated market and very little incentive to go far from home. The bar owner needs to make it worth while for a new person to get them in the door.

The average bar goer I'm familiar with has a few bars in their 'rotation' much like a bar has bands in their rotation. The owners need to tap into that like Paul said.

So I guess the homework here would be: Find out the 'draw radius' of the bar. Find what type of advertising TARGETS that radius. Then stick with it while monitoring changes in the patrons.

If the bar draws from the local <5 mile radius primarily, then the sign outside is probably enough with maybe a billboard on the other side of town to capture the eyes of people that might not pass by.

The owner also has got to have something to say through the chosen media. If its just "live bands" stick with the sign out front because there are enough places that say that to get yourself lost in the mix. If they're going to go deep with it, they need good solid drink specials and/or something to draw in the new people (like no cover).

Then there is consistancy. Either have bands every friday without fail, or just do special events. This helps select the advert media in that some are short term and other long term. Constant change confuses people too. I can't see many people 'digging' to find out what and when something is going on, gotta make it easy for them.



I always laugh at the cover vs no cover. I usually don't hear the bar owners that don't charge a cover complain about "its so hard being a bar owner" and they still leave at the end of a weekend night with an easy 4 digits in their register and their bills are paid. Just because a few fail at the no cover thing, doesn't mean everyone will (and the opposite is true too). But I always hear the "its so hard" rap coming from places that "struggle" and have a cover, don't know why that I get a chuckle out of that really.

In either case though, if he charges a cover, the bar will be almost instantly and universally known for having a cover to the people that go there and their friends. Just like places with expensive drinks find it hard to lure people in even if they do start having decent specials. The owner will find it hard to change once he settles. Start with no cover, then start charging a cover, they'll see an increase in 'walk aways'. Start with a cover, then stop, they'll start saying/thinking "there is no pleasing people, even with no cover, no one new comes in".

[ToonaRockGuy]

Okay, I'm jumping in here.

As someone who spent 15 years in radio and media as a profession, let me set the record straight.

Radio/Print/TV absolutely DO work. The problem over 90% of the time is that someone (like Alex who is new to it) puts out an ad and expects the Red Sea to part and the masses to bang down the doors. That, my friends, is NOT how it works.

The key to advertising success is to:

1. Be Memorable in your ad. Whether it's slogan, special, or jingle, have something that people will remember.

2. Follow through on your ad and provide a great experience for your customers. The better your product/service is, the better your customers will like it, and they will tell other potential customers.

3. Weed out the negative quickly. A customer that has a positive experience with your business will tell 5 other people how great you are. A customer that has a negative experience will tell 100 people how bad you suck. Remember that.

4. Be advertising consistent. That is the key. Don't buy 45 radio ads to run one weekend, and then run 2 ads the rest of the month. Run a small, consistent schedule within your budget and let the results have time to happen. Take advantage of smaller packages that people listen to, such as Curve Baseball or PSU Football packages, so you can stretch your budget.

5. IT TAKES TIME. Nothing is instant. BE PATIENT.

Above all, remember...you have to spend money to make money. I've seen bars come and go, and most of them that went away quickly are gone due to tightwad owners that won't spend a dime and want shit for free. Big John at Peter C's always treated bands that I was in very fairly. Treat your talent fair, and they will help spread the word also.

[JackANSI]

Above all, remember...you have to spend money to make money.

Aside from everything else he said being 100% true, this needs repeated.

[lonewolf]

I think Alex also has to work on the room itself. It's a little dreary down there. Also the pool table needs to be easily movable to make room for more people. Glad he wants to make it work.

Agreed. The pool table also needs moved to a dead corner (like by the load-in door) during shows instead of sitting in the middle of the room taking up space. I was just thinking of going there tonight and taking some measurements to see if there is a better way to lay out the room.

[bsaller]

Big John,

Those two beers are bought by those patrons not handed out for free.

If the people who come in when they normally wouldn't have and stay they pay for a lot more than two beers.

If the patron can't afford a $3.00 cover, he probably can't afford more than 2 beers!

[lonewolf]

Big John,

Those two beers are bought by those patrons not handed out for free.

If the people who come in when they normally wouldn't have and stay they pay for a lot more than two beers.

If the patron can't afford a $3.00 cover, he probably can't afford more than 2 beers!

Welcome to Hollidaysburg. Even people who could afford to literally buy the bar outright might not be inclined to pay a cover charge to see entertainment.

It might work if there is a complimentary drink attached. You know, 35 cents worth of draft beer or bottom shelf liquor and/or soda.