Amendment 28

[BloodyFingers]

Amendment 28

"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United
States that does not apply equally to the Senators or Representatives,
and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators or
Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the
United States ."

[jb31dtr]

With all the states lining up to either sue or just pass state laws against it, the next amendment I see being passes is one that outlaws forcing citizens to purchase any product they do not want. Of course that is already a violation of our constitution but I guess that doesnt matter to this Congress.

[f.sciarrillo]

The Senate is going to start debates on the reconciliation today. They are saying that they are going to try and put the public option back in. This should be interesting ...

[lonewolf]

For a Constitutional Amendment, I would just remove the general welfare clause.

It was never intended to be anything but a general descriptive for the enumerated powers that followed and for 150 years it was treated as such. In 1936, Father Socialist FDR extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting it as a grant of unlimited spending power for "general welfare."

The Supreme Court had to choose between eliminating itself as an effective branch of governmant or ruling in favor of FDR's argument over the general welfare clause. They chose the latter and preserved the court.

The only way to fix the hole left by that hijacked Supreme Court is to remove the phrase that caused it.

[YankeeRose]

Since our esteemed Attorney General is so concerned about the Constitutional legality of Pennsylvanians being required to pay for something, I suppose he is also going to file a lawsuit on our behalf so we will not be required to purchase insurance if we own and drive a vehicle or motorcycle.

[f.sciarrillo]

Since our esteemed Attorney General is so concerned about the Constitutional egality of Pennsylvanians being required to pay for something, I suppose he is also going to file a lawsuit on our behalf so we will not be required to purchase insurance if we own and drive a vehicle or motorcycle.

I hope he does.

[RobTheDrummer]

Since our esteemed Attorney General is so concerned about the Constitutional legality of Pennsylvanians being required to pay for something, I suppose he is also going to file a lawsuit on our behalf so we will not be required to purchase insurance if we own and drive a vehicle or motorcycle.

You don't have to buy car insurance....owning a car is a privilege, not a right. This is the first time that you must purchase something, just to be a citizen.

[jb31dtr]

Since our esteemed Attorney General is so concerned about the Constitutional legality of Pennsylvanians being required to pay for something, I suppose he is also going to file a lawsuit on our behalf so we will not be required to purchase insurance if we own and drive a vehicle or motorcycle.

Honestly I have gotten tired last few weeks of the comparisons to vechicle insurance. No matter how much of inconvienience it would be you have a choice to drive or not. Making you buy health insurance is just a whole other situation and I for one if I can not afford it will not be forced to buy anything. What I choose to do with my money is my business not the governments.

They keep forcing things down peoples throats and taking freedoms away, soon the people are going to fight back to take back our rights.

[f.sciarrillo]

Since our esteemed Attorney General is so concerned about the Constitutional legality of Pennsylvanians being required to pay for something, I suppose he is also going to file a lawsuit on our behalf so we will not be required to purchase insurance if we own and drive a vehicle or motorcycle.

Honestly I have gotten tired last few weeks of the comparisons to vechicle insurance. No matter how much of inconvienience it would be you have a choice to drive or not. Making you buy health insurance is just a whole other situation and I for one if I can not afford it will not be forced to buy anything. What I choose to do with my money is my business not the governments.

They keep forcing things down peoples throats and taking freedoms away, soon the people are going to fight back to take back our rights.

The big fight will be in November. What a turn out that is going to be ..

[lonewolf]

Since our esteemed Attorney General is so concerned about the Constitutional legality of Pennsylvanians being required to pay for something, I suppose he is also going to file a lawsuit on our behalf so we will not be required to purchase insurance if we own and drive a vehicle or motorcycle.

Whole different legal scenario. The privilege of driving is your choice. One of the conditions of exercising this privilege is that you maintain financial responsibility through auto insurance. If you don't have it, you don't qualify to drive on a public highway. Also, these are state laws, not federal. The federal government cannot constitutionally make you buy auto insurance (and they know it), so they threaten to pull highway funding from your state unless they comply with state auto insurance laws that suit the feds.

In the case of mandated health insurance, the federal government, through IRS enforcement, requires that all citizens purchase a private service, namely health insurance, for no other reason except that their new program won't work without 100% participation. There is no choice. The most common form of buying a private service, paying with cash, is no longer an option. The only condition for this mandate is to maintain your right to be a citizen without subjection to fines or imprisonment.

I challenge anyone to find anything in the Constitution that even comes close to granting Congress this kind of power.

You vill sign ze papers or off to the gulag vith you!

[lonewolf]

We all know that there is a lot of "under the table" business going on...cleaning, home remodeling, construction, bands, etc.

Many of these people do not carry health insurance and will have a rude awakening when one of the 16,000 new IRS insurance enforcers comes knocking at their door to find out how they are making a living from such a small reported income. Kinda gives a whole new meaning to "raising a red flag", doesn't it?

You vill sign ze papers or off to the gulag vith you!

[YankeeRose]

Jeff, did you not notice the ? The current healthcare overhaul may not be ideal (and can be amended in the future), but I hope, as a rational person, you can agree something had to be done. Not everyone can afford to buy the best insurance on the market, and even though there was no inflation...I cannot recall the percentage that some premiums went up, but it was around 25% in the last year to year and a half. Also, I know someone in CA who while working, was diagnosed with Melanoma. The eventual effects of treatment caused her to miss work. Guess what happened then? Yep, she, and therefore her insurance, were terminated. Can you imagine??? Imo, actions such as the latter needed to cease immediately if not sooner. Hopefully any delay in treatment will not result in her life being terminated prematurely, but I suppose that would be justified and rationalized by survival of the fittest.

[YankeeRose]

I shall go back under my rock after this, promise. Political threads are not good for my blood pressure.


I have no idea if this was mentioned on here previously, but the fact that when she was growing up, Sarah Palin's family EVER crossed the Canadian border to partake of their national health care, imo makes her one of the most divisive, hypocritical people in the United States. I hope she does run for President in 2012, I really, really do.


I read that Rush Limbaugh said he would leave the country if Healthcare Reform passed. YAY, another 1 for the Pro column!

[jb31dtr]

I dont think anyone is argueing something doesnt need to be done with health care. It is just that THIS isnt what needs to be done and honestly there are many that are not going to stand for illegally being told to buy something they may not be able to afford by their judgement not the governments judgement.

[f.sciarrillo]

I dont think anyone is argueing something doesnt need to be done with health care. It is just that THIS isnt what needs to be done and honestly there are many that are not going to stand for illegally being told to buy something they may not be able to afford by their judgement not the governments judgement.

+1 This whole thing was nothing but backdoor missions and bribes. The Dems will pay, you watch and you learn. The way they put this through was not a way that 72% of Americans wanted.

Look at the approval ratings:

Pelosi has an 11%, Reid has a 8%, congress in a whole has a 28%, the Prez has a 42%. What does that tell you? I know, it tells you that we want all this corruption and backdoor deals that got us where we are now

[whitedevilone]

I find it quite ironic that this "healthcare"charge was lead in style by the washed up neo marxist baby boomers of the 60's.Ahhhh Hippies, always anti government........that is untill the government is handing out free stuff.

[songsmith]

+1 This whole thing was nothing but backdoor missions and bribes. The Dems will pay, you watch and you learn. The way they put this through was not a way that 72% of Americans wanted.

Look at the approval ratings:

Pelosi has an 11%, Reid has a 8%, congress in a whole has a 28%, the Prez has a 42%. What does that tell you? I know, it tells you that we want all this corruption and backdoor deals that got us where we are now

What a load of crap. "The Dems will pay, you watch and you learn." I don't think they will. That may be what Fox is selling these days, but they're whistling past the graveyard. For one, what will the Republican bumper sticker say? : "Bring Back Pre-Existing Conditions!" "Reopen The Donut Hole" or "Give America Back To The Upper Class!" This was, in the end, health INSURANCE reform, the rest is right-wing hyperbole, and nothing more. Never forget that the right is in the political fight of it's existence, and the left has all the upside right now... as usual, that may not pigeonhole into what the wing-media wants you to think, but it's undeniable. Socialism this, backdoor that, in the end, people see the wingnuts flipping the f**k out right now, and it doesn't help them at all.
BTW, Obama is up from 41% to 47% in two days. Expect more of that as the leftwing has seemingly mastered the fine art of hammering the message incessantly... a la Fox News. More proof that the Fairness Doctrine should be re-enacted immediately.--->JMS

[songsmith]

I challenge anyone to find anything in the Constitution that even comes close to granting Congress this kind of power.

THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.--->The Founding Fathers

[bassist_25]

Pelosi has an 11%, Reid has a 8%, congress in a whole has a 28%, the Prez has a 42%. What does that tell you? I know, it tells you that we want all this corruption and backdoor deals that got us where we are now

Are you sure that the reason for those disapproval ratings is because of "the corruption and backdoor deals?" How much of those disapporval ratings are because the leftwing believes the bill didn't go far enough?

You're a psych major, right Frank? I don't know what your research methods prof is like, but my undergrad research methods prof would have smacked me if I made your conclusion based on that limited amount of data.

[f.sciarrillo]

Pelosi has an 11%, Reid has a 8%, congress in a whole has a 28%, the Prez has a 42%. What does that tell you? I know, it tells you that we want all this corruption and backdoor deals that got us where we are now

Are you sure that the reason for those disapproval ratings is because of "the corruption and backdoor deals?" How much of those disapporval ratings are because the leftwing believes the bill didn't go far enough?

You're a psych major, right Frank? I don't know what your research methods prof is like, but my undergrad research methods prof would have smacked me if I made your conclusion based on that limited amount of data.

If you look at the actual data the approval rating is low because of two things. One, they are going to too far left and two, they are not going left enough. Looking at all events of recent weeks and months, it is more of the going to far left that has a majority of the standing down to a crawl.

[lonewolf]

I challenge anyone to find anything in the Constitution that even comes close to granting Congress this kind of power.

THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.--->The Founding Fathers

Nice try Johnny, but the supremacy clause doesn't apply to legislation that is deemed unconstitutional. If you put on your thinking cap and read it carefully, you will see that it also doesn't grant Congress any powers whatsoever. All it does is establish the legal pecking order when there is conflicting legislation. The legislation must also be deemed constitutional...also known as "In Pursuance thereof"

I challenge you to find anything in the Constitution regarding this topic that even comes close to being "in pursuance thereof".

[songsmith]

Nice try Johnny, but the supremacy clause doesn't apply to legislation that is deemed unconstitutional.

Oh, that's where having the Supreme Court stacked comes in handy, eh? Once again, it'll be Roberts, Scalia, and Alito, advantage rightwing. It matters not, at this point, the ball is still deep in the lefthand court. Boehner is predicting Armageddon in November, and Obama replied with a Bush-ism: Bring it on. It's not hard to make the GOP look obstructionist with so many zero's on the vote tallies. The Tea-types are being portrayed as extremist nuts (i love that part) and agenda-driven profiteers. Poll numbers are doing that slow creep up that makes people think it's a trend. A month ago, the healthcare bill was receiving last rites. Now it's the Healthcare Law.

Oh, and the sudden rise in the number of amateur constitutional lawyers since the right has been the minority party still tickles me no end. --->JMS

[Merge]

After the comment the President made at the State of The Union address, the Democrats should pray that the healthcare lawsuit doesn't make it to the Supreme Court.

[jb31dtr]

Do not lump those who dont support this bill as all right wingers. There are many of us who have not voted righ wing for quite some time or in our lives that still do not like much of this bill.

Something needs to be done with healthcare but unjustly taking away rights to buy or not buy a product is not the way and just will not be tolerated by many. I for one will make my own choices with my finances and not have those choices make by the government. I dont care what they pass, if I feel I can not afford it I will not buy it.

[tornandfrayed]

Isn't it true that you can still go right over to Blue Cross and buy Healthcare? Does anyone on this board have auto insurance?

I don't get the mindlessness of the argument, it is almost like it is us vs them. We are all Americans. I hear people say that the people will speak in the election. It has been my experience that people are often too busy watching TV or eating to get outside and speak.

Either way get the fuck of the us vs them bullshit, I live in your country. I am as much an American as you are. The debate exists to stimulate conversation and the exchange of ideas not so some nut case can create a blog saying to go throw bricks through the windows of your local Dem office...

These people are nut jobs and it seems that it is usually the far right guys who are violent. Think Timothy McVey and April 19th is almost here. Like Sarah said "Don't repeal, Re-load!"

Whjat a fucking nightmare!