More bullshit from Obama.

[RobTheDrummer]

I suppose I should pay for other people's health care, that must be the American Dream that our forefathers talked about.

Did you have health care when you were playing full-time in Reno? What would you have done if you came down with a serious illness?

I earned money and paid for doctor visits. Should I have expected someone else to pay for me?

[Hawk]

I suppose I should pay for other people's health care, that must be the American Dream that our forefathers talked about.

Did you have health care when you were playing full-time in Reno? What would you have done if you came down with a serious illness?

I earned money and paid for doctor visits. Should I have expected someone else to pay for me?

Paul, if he had health insurance and (God forbid) had gotten some serious illness like cancer, he would have done the same as everyone else with health insurance. Get dropped by the insurance company, went bankrupt, and...

[songsmith]

Good point, Bill. One of the Fox-phrases used alot is "rationing healthcare." That has been going on for a long time. By insurers. If they feel they're paying out too much, you get dropped ASAP. Also, they don't give you healthcare at all if you already have a health problem (does that make sense, is that the American Dream?). Oh, yeah, and they don't pay for many prescriptions... Big Pharmacol runs on $100 bottles of pills it cost them $3 to make. And the Bushies made sure you can't go to Canada to get it cheaper, the drugs they send up there aren't safe, for some reason.
Basically, the right's view on healthcare is that if you can't afford it, you aren't working hard enough, and therefore, don't deserve it. If it bankrupts you, that's your problem. Suck it, Grampy. Survival of The Fittest.--->JMS

[bassist_25]

Did you have health care when you were playing full-time in Reno? What would you have done if you came down with a serious illness?

I earned money and paid for doctor visits. Should I have expected someone else to pay for me?

You're throwing up a straw man. I'm not asking what you did for a routine check-up. What would you have done if you found out you needed serious medical attention that would cost in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars? Lay over and die because you followed your own personal philosophy?

This is why the health care debate makes my head spin. The right makes the debate analogous to having tax payers pay someone's car payment. I see it as a human right.

[bassist_25]

There's probably a reasonable chance there will be internet where you move.

Well, I may have to go to Californee to get on the Internet.

Oh, and you thought you spent too much on equipment when you were a poor college student...wait until you start getting that fat paycheck. Better get an apartment with at least one extra room.

(oh and btw, congrats & good luck with the new gig)

Thanks, Jeff! Get point about the extra room, though. The back room of my current apartment, which is technically the bedroom, was always filled with equipment. I slept and lived in the front room.

[witchhunt]

HA. I was thinking about that episode.

[Banned]

I see it as a human right.

Health care as a human right? I posted a while back about many more important rights. Before the government takes our money and pays for health care, don't you think food is a human right. The government should provide that free for everyone, it is a basic human right.

How about water, shelter, a job, heat in the winter, AC in the summer, a car. These should all be rights and the government should provide these for us and we should not have to worry about them.

[RobTheDrummer]

Did you have health care when you were playing full-time in Reno? What would you have done if you came down with a serious illness?

I earned money and paid for doctor visits. Should I have expected someone else to pay for me?

You're throwing up a straw man. I'm not asking what you did for a routine check-up. What would you have done if you found out you needed serious medical attention that would cost in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars? Lay over and die because you followed your own personal philosophy?

This is why the health care debate makes my head spin. The right makes the debate analogous to having tax payers pay someone's car payment. I see it as a human right.

There's a difference between "what ifs" and "reality." Basic checkups and cold/flu make up a lot of doctor visits, and there is no reason these aren't affordable. Now picture everyone with a little sniffle going to the doctors, not to mention all of the drugs people are going to try and scam off the government. How much are drugs going to cost the country?

Think about this....Just take 100 people and pay all their medical bills for a year. Just 100 people, and what's that going to cost? Shit, just 50 people would cost a lot. Now look at the whole picture, 304 million people(pop of America)...That's a lot of money, how are we going to afford it? I like how people insist that it's free healthcare, you know that's not the case.

[Hawk]

I earned money and paid for doctor visits. Should I have expected someone else to pay for me?

You're throwing up a straw man. I'm not asking what you did for a routine check-up. What would you have done if you found out you needed serious medical attention that would cost in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars? Lay over and die because you followed your own personal philosophy?

This is why the health care debate makes my head spin. The right makes the debate analogous to having tax payers pay someone's car payment. I see it as a human right.

There's a difference between "what ifs" and "reality." Basic checkups and cold/flu make up a lot of doctor visits, and there is no reason these aren't affordable. Now picture everyone with a little sniffle going to the doctors, not to mention all of the drugs people are going to try and scam off the government. How much are drugs going to cost the country?

Think about this....Just take 100 people and pay all their medical bills for a year. Just 100 people, and what's that going to cost? Shit, just 50 people would cost a lot. Now look at the whole picture, 304 million people(pop of America)...That's a lot of money, how are we going to afford it? I like how people insist that it's free healthcare, you know that's not the case.

He still avoided answering the question.

[RobTheDrummer]

What's the question Bill?

[Hawk]

What's the question Bill?

I don't quite know how to respond to that.

What would you have done, if you had no insurance, and came down with some very serious illness ?

[f.sciarrillo]

What's the question Bill?

I don't quite know how to respond to that.

What would you have done, if you had no insurance, and came down with some very serious illness ?

Using hypothetical over actually will not get you anywhere ... The main issue is the cost that is paid for the average appt which there are a lot more of those than there are serious illnesses.

If health care is a human right and the government must pay for it, then I am going to go mortgage a house and buy a cadillac and send the bill to the white house, as they are human rights as well. Oh, and of course I will be also be sending a food bill to the whitehouse as well.

[songsmith]

Health care as a human right? I posted a while back about many more important rights.

Basically, the right's view on healthcare is that if you can't afford it, you aren't working hard enough, and therefore, don't deserve it. If it bankrupts you, that's your problem. Suck it, Grampy. Survival of The Fittest.--->JMS

Suck it, Paul's Grampy, we're trying to put on a tea-party here. Know and accept your role.
Meanwhile, nobody notices that when a talkshow host makes tens of millions per year, he doesn't have to give a shit about healthcare, he's got a Cadillac policy built into his contract. That's why he's against a bigger tax on Cadillac policies, not "conservative principles." And still, you acceot his "guidance."--->JMS

[Hawk]

What's the question Bill?

I don't quite know how to respond to that.

What would you have done, if you had no insurance, and came down with some very serious illness ?

Using hypothetical over actually will not get you anywhere ... The main issue is the cost that is paid for the average appt which there are a lot more of those than there are serious illnesses..

Wake up Frank ! It "ACTUALLY" happens to hundreds (if not more) of people every day, in real life. And when they go to emergency, YOU pay for it with higher hospital costs and higher insurance premiums. And when these people go bankrupt (also "actually" happens in real life) more detrimental strain is put on our economy !

If the people PAID for a government run OPTION (option is the key word, you don't have to buy it, you can keep what yopu have, and YOUR premiums would come down because of compitition) these problems would be eliminated.

It's the catastrophic illnesses that cause so many bankruptcies and mortgage foreclosures. I think I read 60% of foreclosures are medical bills related. That hurts YOU...

[f.sciarrillo]

I don't quite know how to respond to that.

What would you have done, if you had no insurance, and came down with some very serious illness ?

Using hypothetical over actually will not get you anywhere ... The main issue is the cost that is paid for the average appt which there are a lot more of those than there are serious illnesses..

Wake up Frank ! It "ACTUALLY" happens to hundreds (if not more) of people every day, in real life. And when they go to emergency, YOU pay for it with higher hospital costs and higher insurance premiums. And when these people go bankrupt (also "actually" happens in real life) more detrimental strain is put on our economy !

If the people PAID for a government run OPTION (option is the key word, you don't have to buy it, you can keep what yopu have, and YOUR premiums would come down because of compitition) these problems would be eliminated.

It's the catastrophic illnesses that cause so many bankruptcies and mortgage foreclosures. I think I read 60% of foreclosures are medical bills related. That hurts YOU...

It is a government run program that we will be forced to be on. It will happen. If you do not take it you will be fined and/or imprisoned ... Calling it a public option is a play on words ...

[Hawk]

Using hypothetical over actually will not get you anywhere ... The main issue is the cost that is paid for the average appt which there are a lot more of those than there are serious illnesses..

Wake up Frank ! It "ACTUALLY" happens to hundreds (if not more) of people every day, in real life. And when they go to emergency, YOU pay for it with higher hospital costs and higher insurance premiums. And when these people go bankrupt (also "actually" happens in real life) more detrimental strain is put on our economy !

If the people PAID for a government run OPTION (option is the key word, you don't have to buy it, you can keep what yopu have, and YOUR premiums would come down because of compitition) these problems would be eliminated.

It's the catastrophic illnesses that cause so many bankruptcies and mortgage foreclosures. I think I read 60% of foreclosures are medical bills related. That hurts YOU...

It is a government run program that we will be forced to be on. It will happen. If you do not take it you will be fined and/or imprisoned ... Calling it a public option is a play on words ...

This AGAIN totally proves you have No idea of what's going on.

They're talking about having everyone have insurance. (That is not set in stone.) ANY insurance. The public option is only ONE of the choices. Now do you understand why it called "an option" ? You can "opt" for ANY private insurance ou want ! I guess Beck and Limbaugh are keeping you in the dark.

[f.sciarrillo]

Wake up Frank ! It "ACTUALLY" happens to hundreds (if not more) of people every day, in real life. And when they go to emergency, YOU pay for it with higher hospital costs and higher insurance premiums. And when these people go bankrupt (also "actually" happens in real life) more detrimental strain is put on our economy !

If the people PAID for a government run OPTION (option is the key word, you don't have to buy it, you can keep what yopu have, and YOUR premiums would come down because of compitition) these problems would be eliminated.

It's the catastrophic illnesses that cause so many bankruptcies and mortgage foreclosures. I think I read 60% of foreclosures are medical bills related. That hurts YOU...

It is a government run program that we will be forced to be on. It will happen. If you do not take it you will be fined and/or imprisoned ... Calling it a public option is a play on words ...

This AGAIN totally proves you have No idea of what's going on.

They're talking about having everyone have insurance. (That is not set in stone.) ANY insurance. The public option is only ONE of the choices. Now do you understand why it called "an option" ? You can "opt" for ANY private insurance ou want ! I guess Beck and Limbaugh are keeping you in the dark.

There you are again with the Beck inclusions. Do you have some kind of secret man love for him or something?

Their will be a mandatory health insurance, You will be forced to be on it. Public option is going to be the only choice you have because the private insurers are going to end up going out of business. It is just another way for the fascist liberals to control everything ..

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... an-surviv/

Of course you think different. Seeing that you want to pay for everything, why don't you ? Lets start with paying for a house for me .. Shelter is a human right, so give me the couple hundred thousand to pay for the mortgage ..

[songsmith]

Frank, the link you posted says that Mitch McConnell (and therefore the rest of the far right) is wrong. The public option would not bankrupt insuarance co's, because they could easily point to the shortcomings of public plans, and claim better quality service. I've said over and over that my coverage is expensive but satisfactory, and I wouldn't use the public option. You could do the same.
Mitch McConnell is getting huge amounts of Fox airtime lately, I look for him to increase his media exposure as the next election cycle nears. He tastes blood in the water, and wants to do some grandstanding for the wingnut base. He needs to be re-elected.
And again with the man-love references. I'm starting to see a pattern. --->JMS

[f.sciarrillo]

Frank, the link you posted says that Mitch McConnell (and therefore the rest of the far right) is wrong. The public option would not bankrupt insuarance co's, because they could easily point to the shortcomings of public plans, and claim better quality service. I've said over and over that my coverage is expensive but satisfactory, and I wouldn't use the public option. You could do the same.
Mitch McConnell is getting huge amounts of Fox airtime lately, I look for him to increase his media exposure as the next election cycle nears. He tastes blood in the water, and wants to do some grandstanding for the wingnut base. He needs to be re-elected.
And again with the man-love references. I'm starting to see a pattern. --->JMS

I now what it said. Basically, not all private insurance will go out. But the majority of it will. We will just have to wait and see I guess. Either way you look at it. It does not look like it will be good. But then ya know, they were referencing cobra the other day and how cheap that is. If they think that is cheap and that is the base they are taking, then they will get no one. Cobra is not cheap and it is not quality at all.

[RobTheDrummer]

You guys are hitting the nail on the head, but trying to solve it the wrong way. Yea healthcare costs can be ridiculous, that's the problem. Your solution is more government and more taxes. How about we find out why it costs so much and fix that problem, rather than just throwing more money into a broken system. THROWING MONEY at problems, DOESN'T FIX them....That's all Obama has done since he's been in office, where did the stimulus get us? The cash for clunkers? The bailouts?

[RobTheDrummer]

Frank, the link you posted says that Mitch McConnell (and therefore the rest of the far right) is wrong. The public option would not bankrupt insuarance co's, because they could easily point to the shortcomings of public plans, and claim better quality service. I've said over and over that my coverage is expensive but satisfactory, and I wouldn't use the public option. You could do the same.
Mitch McConnell is getting huge amounts of Fox airtime lately, I look for him to increase his media exposure as the next election cycle nears. He tastes blood in the water, and wants to do some grandstanding for the wingnut base. He needs to be re-elected.
And again with the man-love references. I'm starting to see a pattern. --->JMS

You would be forced to use the government system by 2013.

[Hawk]

You guys are hitting the nail on the head, but trying to solve it the wrong way. Yea healthcare costs can be ridiculous, that's the problem. Your solution is more government and more taxes. How about we find out why it costs so much and fix that problem, rather than just throwing more money into a broken system. THROWING MONEY at problems, DOESN'T FIX them....That's all Obama has done since he's been in office, where did the stimulus get us? The cash for clunkers? The bailouts?

It all kept jobs from being lost. We would have had a major depression if not for Obama's help.

No money to banks = they close. There is a run on banks. = Depression.

Cash for clunkers kept many jobs for people.


Yeah, like anyone else besides the Democrats are trying to do something about health insurance / care. At least they're trying.

[Hawk]

Frank, the link you posted says that Mitch McConnell (and therefore the rest of the far right) is wrong. The public option would not bankrupt insuarance co's, because they could easily point to the shortcomings of public plans, and claim better quality service. I've said over and over that my coverage is expensive but satisfactory, and I wouldn't use the public option. You could do the same.
Mitch McConnell is getting huge amounts of Fox airtime lately, I look for him to increase his media exposure as the next election cycle nears. He tastes blood in the water, and wants to do some grandstanding for the wingnut base. He needs to be re-elected.
And again with the man-love references. I'm starting to see a pattern. --->JMS

You would be forced to use the government system by 2013.

Damn Lie.

[songsmith]

The bank bailouts were a gift from Bush to Big Banking. They were approved before Obama took office. Much of the bailout has been paid back with interest.
Cash For Clunkers, while a huge target for the Right, um...... WORKED. It served as a means to put money in the American auto industry FAST. While I've always been vocally anti-union, autoworkers would not have been the only people to lose if the industry tanked... like people at PPG, just 2 miles from my house. Or the people who own dealerships, for whom I work regularly. I opposed welfare for corporations (still do), but I had to grudgingly admit that those companies still have jobs. Besides, Bush knew what was happening in the industry, and like a true rightwinger, left it for the next guy to fix.

Look, I know that the talkshow heroes cannot go 30 seconds without spouting the worn-out theory that govt doesn't create jobs, and wingers will believe anything that lets them feel like they're right, but:
The economy, while still terrible, is doing better than even the Left expected it to do. Obama was handed a cataclysm, destroyed by years of corporate special-interests, ineptitude, a lack of oversight, and plain criminal greed. You can pretend it can be fixed easily and quickly, but you're just fooling yourself. I've seen posts mentioning that this is Obama's (and Congress's) last term... if so, I only hope the Right doesn't return to the retardation that put us in Iraq, and the '08 Financial Crisis, among other rightwing defeats.
Anyway, the right side of the aisle can't even agree on what to protest against, how are they going to pull it together enough to win a LOT of elections?--->JMS

[f.sciarrillo]

Looks at how Obamas polls are the lowest than any other president at this point in history.

Last reports were they were at 42%. Lower than Bush's were. Even the mainstream media is starting to dis him. That is something I thought I would never see ..