grungeracer7 wrote:For those of you who dislike both of these bands:
Green day represents the lil bastard in all of us. Who really cares if they just play 3 chords (which isn't true). Listen to the words. Even if you listen to "Time of your Life" (not Overrated like alot of you like to say).
There is no lil' bastard in me, only a possessed demon who belongs to the words of metal...
Although I did get a BJ to that slow one once...only time I've ever enjoyed their music....but then again, you could have played anything and it would have been enjoyable
Oooo. Harshness on the board post-elections. Cool topic though.
In short, if I had to choose.....a year ago, I would've said Green Day, but today, Nirvana, but there could be a recount tomorrow.
I personally loved the Grunge Era. I think what makes rock music isn't how many chords you play, or how cheesey the lyrics are, or how fast your guitarist can fly through pentatonic scales, but rather attitude.
Let's face it, like or not, the Stones are rock and roll. I'm not getting into a heated arguement on if their overrated or not, but the attitude is there man. Jumpin' Jack Flash, Satisfaction, Paint it Black, Street Fightin' Man. They don't have an abundance of chords or chord variations, but they're damn good rock and roll songs. Buddy Holly didn't have a lot chords in his music, and damn the guy was rock and roll.
As far as being a smokin' musician and such, I personally prefer guitarists who can tastefully add to the song and turn it on when necessary rather than try and prove how fast they are all the time. I'm a big fan of Slash during the Use Your Illusion Era for this......Again, one of the greatest rock and roll bands of all time, G'NR, like 'em or not...technical savy? Yes. Attitude? Definately.
As far as the grunge era, I'd definately put in an Alice in Chains or Soundgarden Album before a Nirvana or Green Day. Layne and Jerry's minor harmonies....unreal, especially during the Unplugged performance. Cornell had some pipes in the day and Thaiyl was a pretty good guitarist.
Someone posted "grunge is dead." Definately, because it got big for not being mainstream and as soon as it was, it crumbled. As far as this Nu-metal stuff and EMO, it can't possibly last much longer. Bands like The White Stripes and Jett are getting popular not because their songs are that good, but it's a step away from the whole Genre that rules today. Current rock has about 4 issues that make it boring in my opinion. 1. It's almost always quantitized to a click instead of just playing to it. There's no musician variance. 2. Guitar and Bass cabinet and effects simulators make the effects sound too generic. 3. Everyone's voice sounds pretty close to the same. I don't know, my opinion, but at least before you could almost tell if it was Keith Richards opening chords, or Angus Young's opening chords, or Van Halen's opening chords. Today, I couldn't tell you the tonal differences between Linkin Park, Incubus, or Simple Plan (guitar alone).
And finally......Yes finally.....Counterparts was a pretty good Rush album. I really like A Farewell to Kings and 2112 the best though. Something for Nothing is one of my all time favorite songs.
I personally like the new direction they are headed. It all started with Nimord and songs like Redundant, Walking Alone, and of course Good Riddence (Time of Your Life). When Warning came out, it was more of the softer side of Nimrod, except alot more mature and a little less punk. With the new album, American Idiot, they still have that mature experimental sound, but just a dash more sass than Warning did.
Bottom line, Green Day was fun three-chord cheese. Nirvana ( don't get me wrong, I really liked those guys too ) was the darker, and more serious side. However, still mostly everything was three to four chord cheese with them too.
lonewolf wrote:They might have been smoking something, but as far as I'm concerned, they are just rhythm guitarists. That's what separates grunge from the rest of rock: no virtuoso guitar work. None, nada. If there was any, I'd like to hear it.
Amen on the virtuoso man. I remember the times of guys like Malmsteen, Vai, Satch, DeGarmo, Van Halen, etc. and the mid 90's on was a hotbed of mediocre guitarists. Not saying there were no good guitarists then, but the guitar solo was dead then and if these new guitarists were actually good, you'd never know it.
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When I started playing guitar (1990), I was really into 80's metal like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Motley Crue, Megadeth, ect. So when grunge came along, I used hate to any song that didn't have an ass-kicking solo, or anything complicated in it. I got into some fusion jazz guitar players like Al di Meola, adn Pat Methany and a lot of other people that no one has ever heard of and be like "What the fuck, how can bands like nirvana,and green day get so popular, THEY SUCK". But then I started smoking weed, and learned to enjoy ALMOST everything. I hold a great respect for "virtuosos", a lot of them are literally jaw-dropping. I can also enjoy a good song that might only be a 3 chorder and a cheezy solo. That is where these two bands lie, but I do enjoy their tunes, especially Nirvana.
If you think about it a little........, As a musician our job is to entertain the crowd, if you can impress them a little while you are entertaining them than great. problem is 98% of the people listening don't give a shit how many notes a second we can play or how the drummer stacks up to Neil Peart. 98% of the crowd is out for the song with a catchy melody done well. i've heard a few ( regional ) bands recently that don't even play the solos !!! and the funny thing is.......... not too many people even notice and not too many of the people that notice care as long as they like the song.
Malmsteen, Vai, Johnson and Satch are musicians musicians, I'll guarantee that at least 60% of the crowd at a G3 concert is a musician, 30% were drug there by a musician and 10% came because its a concert. The average Joe doesn't care , if the average joe and mrs. joe were offered there choice of tickets to see Joe Satriani or Green Day most of them would probably go see Green Day.
When I was in high school I could shred up some ascending / descending runs and sweep arpreggios up and down the neck in 2 or 3 positions with every cord change. Can't touch it now....... gave up on it cause nobody seemed to care and I realized I didn't care either I just wanted to play and have fun.
So I personally don't think we should be knockin bands that don't necasarily impress us because I for 1 don't think its as much about impressing people as entertaining them.
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.
I would agree with most of what Tonefight says. He is right about most people not caring. We all know that "WE" (as musicians) look for certain things, but the general population doesn't.
But, on the other hand, there are times when I couldn't care less if the band is playing the song note for note or if they are playing something that is completely different - as long as I am entertained.
Well, I hate to admit this, but I once saw "Katrina and the Waves" in concert (they opened for the Beach Boys) and I fell asleep by the 4th or 5th song. (and I wasn't wasted at the time- that was later). Anyway - Green Day or Nirvana - oh my lord - I would be comatose within seconds!!!! There is nothing entertaining about their music or anything they do.
I totally agree with Toonarockguy - WAY OVERRATED!!!!!!!! Beyond OVERATED!!!!!!! Are there any new bands that really do anything special, that have a new sound, that bring something to the table?? I think I'll just go on listening to old Rush and Floyd cds and switch on Froggy when I'm in the car.
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man; a debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
OK, I would pick GreenDay from the two. Kurt Cobain was a very tormented soul but I cannot abide suicide. It irritates the shit out of me that someone with so much to offer and going for them could be so self indulgant as to get to the point of committimg suicide. What the F&^%K?
Now Rush, there is a band! Pink Floyd, oh yeah! Music today is bland and corporate.
Torn & Frayed
One World, One Voice, One God! Music is LIFE!
I always thought it was ironic that, ten years after Cobain's check-out, it seems plain that the real musical genius is the drummer. Between Foo Fighters and Probot, he's shown more of an ear for melody and power than Kurt did, and Kurt could write a pretty catchy melody.
I loved Teen Spirit when I first heard it, on the way to see Metallica in Pittsburgh... about 500 listens later I was pretty much over it, and never really cared for anything else they did.
I never put Alice In Chains in the same group... they played them on Headbanger's Ball before the grunge scene broke. And Pearl Jam was all about the guitars for me, although the songwriting was good, I couldn't abide Eddie Vedder looking at his shoes... singers then were supposed to be ringmasters of a three-ring extravaganza, and being a frontman, I didn't want to let that go... he just bothered me, and Paul Stanley said if it's such torture to be a rock star, go back to playing in your bedroom--one of my favorite rock quotes of all time.
As for Green Day, I can appreciate their hard touring to get where they are, but the music isn't for me... I came up with the Sex Pistols and Ramones when they were new and I was 14, so everything after seems derivative. That's not to bust everyone afterwards, punk bands are still relevant, it's just that I'm stuck there because I'm old.----->JMS
I love the Pistols and I love the Ramones, but they were the pioneers of punk, along with the dolls. I saw the dead kennedys and I saw the Germs way back. They were great bands, How about the New York Dolls?
Pick, Nirvana or Greenday? If you had to have one artists catalog and could only listen to that on an island with, not a volleyball, but a blow up doll of Ashlee Simpson?
Come on!
Torn & Frayed
One World, One Voice, One God! Music is LIFE!
songsmith wrote:I always thought it was ironic that, ten years after Cobain's check-out, it seems plain that the real musical genius is the drummer.
I always thought something similiar when it came to The Doors. While I'm a huge fan of Morrison's writing and performing, Ray Manzarek was the brilliant musician of the group.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
torn&frayed wrote:As can be attested too by his many smash hits and recordings of critical acclaim?
Andres Segovia is a much more accomplished guitarist than any of the shred-heros that were mentioned previously in this thread, but he never had a hit record and is unknown outside of guitar affcianado circles. Does that change the fact that he's probaly one of the greatest guitarists to ever live? If you're using the commercial/critical success argument then that means the White Stripes are brilliant musicians and Miles Davis is a no talent bum.
torn&frayed wrote:
I give the three remaining members of the Doors their due but,
They could have been anyone even members of (insert favorite local band here!). Morrison made the mystique, he made the image and he made the sound.
Very seldom does one personality so pursuade and leave such an everlasting image.
Few through history have had the kind of appeal that Morrison still has!
Oh no, I agree with you 100%. There will never be anyone like Jim Morrison, but Ray is just such an awesome musician/composer.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
I just haven't heard anything from his post Doors days, do you have a recomendation? Let me know and I will check it out. I am always looking for different things to listen to.
And You have to agree most of the Doors stuff is timeless. I listen to a lot of different things and would agree that commercial success is not always a sign of talent. But the Doors were the right combination at the right time!
Torn & Frayed
One World, One Voice, One God! Music is LIFE!
"What the fuck, how can bands like nirvana,and green day get so popular, THEY SUCK". But then I started smoking weed, and learned to enjoy ALMOST everything.
That made my whole afternoon!
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
torn&frayed wrote:As can be attested too by his many smash hits and recordings of critical acclaim?
Andres Segovia is a much more accomplished guitarist than any of the shred-heros that were mentioned previously in this thread, but he never had a hit record and is unknown outside of guitar affcianado circles. Does that change the fact that he's probaly one of the greatest guitarists to ever live? If you're using the commercial/critical success argument then that means the White Stripes are brilliant musicians and Miles Davis is a no talent bum.
torn&frayed wrote:
I give the three remaining members of the Doors their due but,
They could have been anyone even members of (insert favorite local band here!). Morrison made the mystique, he made the image and he made the sound.
Very seldom does one personality so pursuade and leave such an everlasting image.
Few through history have had the kind of appeal that Morrison still has!
Oh no, I agree with you 100%. There will never be anyone like Jim Morrison, but Ray is just such an awesome musician/composer.
Segovia is phenomenal....I have a couple of his CD's...Between him and Carlos Montoya, I can lose a whole afternoon just listening...
Okay, okay, Torn... I have to go with Nirvana. I didn't "get" Morrison, either, apparently the poetry went over my head (I feel stupid, 'cause I always thought I was deep) and Cobain seemed rambling and odd to me, but the melody factor wins between the two bands. Rambling and odd has it's place, I guess, but the girlies just luv the catchy hooks, and Nirvana had them plenty. Again, I appreciate both bands work ethic, and how they didn't have rich daddies to help. I never got Billie Joe's English accent either... too weird for more than a song or two. He eventually softened it, but the damage was done.
BTW, don't crucify me for not liking Morrison. He defined rock stardom, I know, but being "the Great American Poet" seemed a bit much. I think it was the drugs that made him write that stuff, and maybe I'm jealous because I write stupid sh*t when I'm stoned, and pot's much better now than then. Not that I smoke that stuff. Drugs are bad, mmkay. Anyway, he came off as a dick, and there are enough dicks in the world.
So, Nirvana. Now please send my blow-up doll.--->JMS
byndrsn wrote:
I totally agree with Toonarockguy - WAY OVERRATED!!!!!!!! Beyond OVERATED!!!!!!! Are there any new bands that really do anything special, that have a new sound, that bring something to the table?? I think I'll just go on listening to old Rush and Floyd cds and switch on Froggy when I'm in the car.
Dude...Elvis was overrated. Green day didn't get as much props as they should have. And by the time they did, all their "underground" fans thought they sold out. Damned if you have no money and are made a god to few...Damned when you do have money and are a god to most.
~*~Esa~*~
I'll be the one left standing behind you, looking the other way as you glance back at what you've lost.
byndrsn wrote:
I totally agree with Toonarockguy - WAY OVERRATED!!!!!!!! Beyond OVERATED!!!!!!! Are there any new bands that really do anything special, that have a new sound, that bring something to the table?? I think I'll just go on listening to old Rush and Floyd cds and switch on Froggy when I'm in the car.
Dude...Elvis was overrated. Green day didn't get as much props as they should have. And by the time they did, all their "underground" fans thought they sold out. Damned if you have no money and are made a god to few...Damned when you do have money and are a god to most.
I like Elvis. Actually, in his day, Elvis was spectacular! I mean, look at it - Elvis, the Beatles - there haven't been many performers that could match that type of excitement that some of those bands generated. The new bands of the last decade could never fit into that category.
I would like to see an artist that could generate that much excitement - even if I didn't care for the music - I think it would still be cool to see.
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man; a debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
Ya know, it figures. If ya diss Elvis, everyone will have an opinion and defend the man. If I would have said Yahhni then there would have been no argument what-so-ever.
Talk about double standard swayment.
~*~Esa~*~
I'll be the one left standing behind you, looking the other way as you glance back at what you've lost.
In a rock era when vocals went baritone, guitar work went to Mel Bay Book 2, and there were no bridges to speak of, I have to pick Nirvana, only because they were the prototype that started the whole thing.
Kinda like Hidden Valley Ranch dressing.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
