Just curious...what are the going rates these days?

[tornandfrayed]

Ah yes, that is my Rockpage!

Some guys make some money, some guys don't.

How many people on this page are making their living at music?

So, if this jaybird guy is doing promotion cool, if you don't like what he does cool. Don't do any shows with him. It is my guess that if you thought there was going to be a big crowd most would do the show regardless of the "Moral disagreement".

I guess what I am saying is that it's Rock N Roll. I have to admit that I agree with Keith on this one. Never felt the need to make a bunch of cash. That's why I played in a metal band. I mean come on! When we were out playing a lot it was to have a good time and hang with my friends. I met a lot of cool people and got to have a shit load of fun.

I just hate to see so much bickering and name calling when the truth is that most of you probably agree on most things and have close to the same goals.

We always had a blast cause we worked together and had fun.

I got a blowjob from edsels sister once and the whole roach thing is disturbing. Scott never washes his fucking clothes and never bought a ticket to anything. Fedup is the real deal and if there was a "Fedup, Bad Daze" national tour I would pay the $70 to get a ticket.

I hate to say it but fuck man, mellow out and have a good time life is too short to spend too much of it being pissed at someone who means absolutely nothing to you...

So This is why I love Rockpage!

Hi My name is Dave and I am a rockpageaholic.

Good luck to all you guys.

[Big-H]

amen to the last post...Jaybird your still gold in my book....

[PanzerFaust]

I say flat rate...

$10,000 up front.......

$10,000 when the obit runs.......

[songsmith]

Play bluegrass festivals. Nicer crowd, less hassles, money's decent, no ringing ears, and camping with "kind" people. Oh, yeah, and you get to jam with the headliner after.
Jam shows are iffy on the money, but LOTS of fun. We do both, and play maybe 3-4 bar shows a year... I loved playing certain clubs, but with the PLCB, drunk checkpoints, and the smoking laws, it's way cooler to sit & grin at an outdoor show. Shameless plug: Mama Corn outdoors at Cosmic2, This Sat at 5pm, Sinking Valley Fairgrounds. Bring your bad attitude, and we'll fix it.--->JMS

[moxham123]

So, from I have been reading from all these posts is that nobody should make any money from the music business.

Bands should play for free
Bars should let people in for free and give them food and drinks for free
Sound people should run sound and lights for free
Promoters should set up shows for free and let people in for free
Companies that make band equipment should do it for free and give it away for free
Auto manufacturers should give vehicles away for free so bands can get to gigs
Oil companies should give gas away for free so bands can get to gigs
Record companies should give away music for free
Advertising should be free
Every other business should provide goods and services for free

I guess if everything was free, it would solve all of the economic issues.

[dayzichick]

Wow that is funny, thanks! I always feel that what we do is a commodity and should therefore be compensated that way. Not everyone can get up on a stage and do what we do, that's why it's a talent and talent is rare. All those stupid reality shows have made the public perception skewed into thinking anyone can sing or anyone can play. It just ain't so. Everyone has so lowered their standards of what is actual talent and what is mediocre. This is the only job I do where people expect you to do it for free. Would you go in on a Saturday at your day job (providing you have one) for free? Would you go into Sheetz for a candy bar and be like, "oh well can I just take this today." I don't even know why there is a bartering system in this business. Set your price and stick to it. I have never met a club owner that didn't try and talk me down regardless of if it was the origin of a band or 10 years in and established. The best ones are "ah we didn't do too well tonight, I"m going to have to cut your pay" That's like my day job saying, "well the stock price closed at this amount today, so I know you came in and gave it your all, but you won't be getting paid for today." It's expensive to be in a band, before you even play out. I think a lot of club owners and audiences see it as a hobby for us . . .to me it's not a hobby, it's a job. So I should get paid to do my job. And if I do extremely well at my job, then I should get paid more.

[Roadhouse]

My post turned into this...
I am an outsider looking in. A friend of mine suggested this forum to answer some questions I had but...wow. I have had great feedback via mail messages and I thank those considerate people again.


Look at yourselves...

It's gonna be July 4th. Have some respect...

[dayzichick]

So I guess we've made ourselves look bad by some of our replies BUT when you do a good job, you should get paid for it, that is all I was saying. No disrespect to anyone. A lot of us have been treated very badly by club owners throughout our careers and that is why some are bitter including myself. The example I gave wasn't regarding a night where there was no crowd. There have been various clubs where we've had 300-400 people and the club owner STILL didn't want to pay us at the end of the night. That's what I was referring to. When you do your job, you shouldn't have to lower your price at the end of the night, which I guess had nothing to do with what happened to your uncle. I just see clubs using bands to make money but then end up screwing them over in the end. You really can't understand it till you've been in our shoes. I am the most reasonable person out there but even I've had enough of the comments I have to endure. The bands are for the most part an afterthought in the club owners' minds. I just quit a place that wanted my acoustic act to play for $37/person. Come on! This is what I"m talking about.

[UNEARTHA7XMatt]

I agree with everything that you say Torn but when some asshole decides to blacklist a band just because they decide to put together shows for area bands at a place that he dosent like then sure Im gonna be a little angry over it. All we wanted to do was put shows together so that bands in the Johnstown area, well hell all over PA could get together and get their music heard. To us it wasnt about the money, I dont care if we make a dime. I just want to be heard. I agree with the whole 100 to 150 and door idea. Ive been playing in this area for almost a decade now and thats been pretty much the going rate since 2000 when I started and I think that its reasonable! Nobody likes to work for free but it comes with the territory.

[joltinjeff]

I know this is probably not worth a whole lot now, but I have a little story to tell you. Now this goes back to about 1984 while I was stationed in Germany and sang in a band.

After six shows of playing small clubs and not getting paid a whole hell of a lot, we went to one of the bigger clubs in the town where we were stationed. The manager of the club said sure he would love to have us. We set a date and then he handed us a stack of papers. The papers was a contract between the club and the band. IAfter having my German girlfriend and a sergeant who was fluent in Germany read over it it stated that no matter what, we would be paid X amount of money. The club and the band split the door.
We would have to provide our own sound and do all the publicity. We mostly did this on post so it was not that big of a deal. Word of mouth in the Army is like the rumormill in Central Pa.
We played two nights and the first night we almost sold out. The second night they were turning ppl away from the door.
I feel that if a club in this area wants to bring in the best music and the biggest crowds, do screw over the local bands who have any type of followings. If there is a band out there that wants to get noticed ... open for a known band. Don't worry about getting paid, the exposure is enough or at least it should be.
In this day of everyone being litigation-happy I am not sure bands should have contracts with bands to keep a balanced rate for all bands and share the door.
I don't know if that means anything, but it kind of makes sense to me!!!

[Rich]

Honest people don't need contracts... But they are few and far between these days... I don't have much. But I have my word!!!

[VENTGtr]

I always feel that what we do is a commodity and should therefore be
compensated that way.

I think a lot of club owners and audiences see it as a hobby for us...to
me it's not a hobby, it's a job. So I should get paid to do my job.

All of this should be ingrained on everyone. And this...

This is the only job I do where people expect you to do it for free.

is one people, especially venue owners, need to understand isn't a good
mentality to dealing with "us".

Most of us really DO understand what venue owners have to deal with. Between
the other hassles, the turnover, the people on staff that sometimes don't work
out for whatever reason, the DRUNK people you have to deal with, etc. WE have
them to. Normally, if "we've" been at it a while, we look more for a mutual respect
and an understanding that we both have to work together to make a person "out"
have a good experience. It does me no good if people who like us won't come to
a show because they can't stand your staff, and you no good if our singer sings
to the audience with his back to them all night, etc. (That doesn't happen, btw.
Just an example).

Had an owner say they liked a certain band because "They just do it for fun. They
don't care about the money and don't take it too serious".

During this conversation I said to the owner we'd be happy to play there free
when they gave out free beer to everyone. They (As in "she" got a bit huffy
about how the bar was their business and they needed to pay bills. I said
"Yep. Exactly.".

They weren't so fond of that band when they'd stop in the middle of a night after
some incident or other, get too drunk to play, or just not show up (All of these
things happened different times) because they didn't take it serious... and then
eventually stopped playing at this particular place because TA DA!, they weren't
making enough money.

We actually don't play at this place anymore. Not because of not making enough
money...just this particular owner's attitude and other things on their part that
weren't worth the hassle. A common affliction there.

There's one thing to playing a benefit, or party, or just something you just want
to do; that's your choice, as is how a venue handles their payout. But, it IS a job,
whether anyone likes to think so or not (Think I've said that 50x on here). Treat
it that way and you'll approach it better, will have a better relationship with places
you play, they'll have a better view of you, AND you might even have more fun with
it all.

There's nothing wrong with loving your job...and to do this one...you have to.

[slackin@dabass]

you want some solid advice?


hire production yourself, as the bar owner, and then offer the band (for a first time show) 200 bucks versus door. depending on which production you go with, you can go from 200-250-300 and up. that way you have a set amount up front of how much it's going to cost. if a band has four members and they each make 50 bucks (that's 200, total, for you math challenged) that's enough for gas and dinner. plus, you cover production, so you know the band isn't going to bullshit you into thinking the sound and lights are running 800 of the 1000 bucks they ask for.


production isn't cheap. being in a band that doesn't own their own pa or lights, i know how much we pay out of our cut when we have to hire a company for a venue without in house sound.


above all, remember, this is a job. on days that i have gigs, i like to be at the venue and get set up at 7. that's right. 7 in the evening. if i get there at 7, play from 10 or 10:30 to 2 am, and get everything loaded out by 3, that's an 8 hour work day. at my day job, i make between 11 and 15 bucks an hour. at my night job, which is what i consider playing in a cover band that plays full nights, i expect roughly the same. you as a bar owner have to keep in mind, i don't like all the songs i play. i have countless hours tied up in practicing to be a better player, learning songs, practicing with my band, and whatever amount of time to promote myself to potential customers (audience members). i have thousands of dollars tied up in my instruments, amps, effects, stage clothes, strings, and picks. on top of that, i work all day, and still manage to spend time with my old lady and her kid. i expect to be compensated. yes. i love doing this. i like playing music. i have fun with it. but it's still my job. and i expect to be compensated for my time and effort. if i make (not my band, just me) 50 bucks a night... i'm pretty satisfied. if i make 150 a night. i'm ecstatic.


you have to keep in mind that i, too, have bills to pay.

[KeithReynolds]

Stage clothes??? GAY!
hahaha jk Ryan

[Feelgood]

Honestly, I am very conflicted with the Jaybird issue in this thread.

On one hand, you can't argue with the fact there was a person willing to stick his neck and checkbook out on the line to help better the area and music scene. Granted, a lot of the bands he brought in were relatively unknown but they, too, still had a fee. I've seen some of the prices of these bands and while it's not a ridiculous overhead, it is at the same time when it's all said and done.

However, I feel a lot of the issues with the shows came down to promotion. I can vouch that bands should be held liable for x% of promotion. This being comprised of flyer promotion, internet, texting rings, e-mail blasts, et cetera. However, the remaining % of promotion should come from the promoter in other forms than a Myspace bulletin. There have been numerous times where I have had a free weekend and wanted to go check out Solegion but was unaware of any of their shows until the day prior or the day of with just one Myspace bulletin. On the other side, I could probably recite you everything that is going on in the world of Acalasia right now due to their interaction and promotion.

My background in the scene is in the Vocal Youth, DIY shows. While there are obvious conflicting interests with that scene, I learned a lot about it and there is a lot that can be learned from it. A group of kids are able to arrange a sufficient amount of shows with full sound and lighting that would draw, at times, easily over 100-150 people. No presale tickets, no drama; just bands getting together and working together. I learned the importance of working hard for promoting your band and your shows. Jaybird, you know me and you know that is nothing short of true. You know anytime Subdue was on a show, there were flyers all over Ace's and Around the Corner or whatever venues were around. And you know this even from Lost Ledny. But during my time in Lost Ledny and working with Jaybird, I learned just as much as I did with the DIY scene but in regards to the more circuit/touring scene.

So while I can't agree with everything that had gone on for every show and the reasoning behind every action, this is what I ultimately break this issue down to:

1) Jaybird attempted a good thing for this scene and area. And to this day, I love Too Loud Festival.

2) A lack of proper promotion on both sides affected the turn outs. You can't blame the lack of turnouts on the national when you can see local DIY shows pulling their crowds. However, in this area, the day of the week posed the occasional issue.

3) I feel that pre-sale tickets are a bad idea but how else can you really ensure you're covering your ass when you're fronting upwards of $1,000 out of pocket for the headliner?

I still feel that having something steady in this area, such as the Monthly Metal shows at Around the Corner, could work. It's just a difficult balance to find.

[slackin@dabass]

Stage clothes??? GAY!
hahaha jk Ryan

well... yea... i mean... ok, it does sound kinda gay

[joltinjeff]

I know that it sounds like a bunch of shit, but in the same token I still think it is worth another rethink.
Clubs and bars have an attorney or law firm neatly tuck away just in case something bad happens and I know there are a few honest club/bar owners out there, but I just think it is good solid business to have a written contract on what the band receives and what the club/bar gets. Everyone involved including every member of the band signs the contract not just the one person who handles the booking or whoever does that type of thing for the band.
The bar and band are covered. If someone screws up like ... the band finks out of the gig for whatever reason or the owner/manager says the verbal agreement was for $200 instead of say $400, then the band can say the owner/manager recanted on the agreement and have legal rights to that money.
If a band finks out of a gig and say the owner plasters ads for that band on paper or on radio the band should be responsible for repaying the ad fees.

[slackin@dabass]

I know that it sounds like a bunch of shit, but in the same token I still think it is worth another rethink.
Clubs and bars have an attorney or law firm neatly tuck away just in case something bad happens and I know there are a few honest club/bar owners out there, but I just think it is good solid business to have a written contract on what the band receives and what the club/bar gets. Everyone involved including every member of the band signs the contract not just the one person who handles the booking or whoever does that type of thing for the band.
The bar and band are covered. If someone screws up like ... the band finks out of the gig for whatever reason or the owner/manager says the verbal agreement was for $200 instead of say $400, then the band can say the owner/manager recanted on the agreement and have legal rights to that money.
If a band finks out of a gig and say the owner plasters ads for that band on paper or on radio the band should be responsible for repaying the ad fees.

who wants to go to court over 200 bucks? if your talking thousands... like multiple thousands... more than 2 thousand... more like 10,000 bucks. who wants to pay legal fees for 200 bucks? even if the bar owner does fink out of it, to file charges you gotta go to a hearing... how much does that cost? not to mention the amount of time it will take to schedule court dates... be a little more realistic about it, at least. contracts are no good. the problem is people aren't honest anymore. well, what can you do about dishonest bar owners? don't play their fuckin' clubs!

[joltinjeff]

OK so my idea sucks but it was just a thought.

[UNEARTHA7XMatt]

Dont get me wrong Feelgood I loved the Too Loud Fest too. It was the highlight of my summer last year. Hell I might still go this year to support the Bands. My whole gripe is that we were blacklisted from it for no god damn reason whatsoever! We did nothing to anybody who has anything to do with the festival yet we cant play this year. We sold I think the 3rd highest amount of Tickets last year and yet we get the shaft. I dont get it. I had absolutely no problems with Jaybird until this happened. Did we deserve this for trying to give bands another venue to play at? I dont think so!

[moxham123]

Stage clothes??? GAY!
hahaha jk Ryan

well... yea... i mean... ok, it does sound kinda gay

I believe the proper contractual term would be entertainment performance attire

[DirtySanchez]

Bump.

Come to Aldo's Friday.

Ninetail, The Embalmed, Fedup

My mom and my wife will both be there. Dad doesn't like Metal though.

5 bucks at the door. No ticket presale.

No washed up Nu-Metal here, but feel free to wear your parachute bondage pants and "Can't Sleep Clowns Will Eat Me" shirts anyways! Maybe J Ninetail will sign it for you since they're a "national act" now. lol

Seriously though, be there and do shots with my mom.

[EyesOfAnguishbassist]

If you make enough money to get yourself home, eat, and survive until the next gig, be thankful.

I think that sums it up, at least for my band.

Make enough to eat, pay for gas, and make it to the next show. If your lucky make extra to get more merch, or whatever your band needs haha.
I'm just happy to play shows and get my band name out there in new areas.

[UNEARTHA7XMatt]

If you make enough money to get yourself home, eat, and survive until the next gig, be thankful.

I think that sums it up, at least for my band.

Make enough to eat, pay for gas, and make it to the next show. If your lucky make extra to get more merch, or whatever your band needs haha.
I'm just happy to play shows and get my band name out there in new areas.

Thats the best part about it is just getting out to new areas and meeting new bands to do shows with!

[slackin@dabass]

OK so my idea sucks but it was just a thought.

it's not a sucky idea, just an incredibly time consuming one. it used to be that when people agreed upon a time, a place, and a set amount of money, they stuck to it. unfortunately, not everyone's word is gold... it is an interesting thought to have a contract for venues. how much more professional can you appear than to have a bar or club sign into an obligated agreement?