TOTALLY DISSED @ 30SOMETHING

Ray Wagner · Post by **Ray Wagner** » Saturday May 23, 2009

We played 30something in Altoona last night and man it was a long, painful night. Bar owner was dissing us left and right all night long. We're from the Cumberland MD area and never played in PA before. It would appear that his concern was over potentional LCB violations. Our singer was about to take a drink outside the club and got jumped for it. We also got harshly warned on several occasions about not using the sidedoor for anything other than loading or unloading, perhaps because of noise ordinances? Owner/manager was really rude to us and discourteous. Couldn't wait for the night to end and we'll never play there again unless there's a changeover in mgmt. Is the LCB that Nazi-ish in PA to make bar owners go ballistic?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Yes, the PLCB is someone for the owner to be afraid of. If the PLCB had seen someone carry a drink out the door - big fine for the owner !

Yes, after load in, the side door is locked and covered.

Sorry for your bad experience here in Altoona. But every bar owner is paranoid when it comes to PLCB rules and regulations.

The owner is not always tactful, but I find him to be a nice guy. He was protecting his butt.

Ray Wagner · Post by **Ray Wagner** » Saturday May 23, 2009

'not always tactful' was a polite way of putting it... we were totally soured on the establishment as a result. But thanks for the info on the PLCB. I have taken the time to skim other threads on this site about the PLCB. We don't have a enforcement division in MD, WV, or VA that is as overbearing. Maybe the PA bands should consider playing more gigs out-of-state if the environment is going to be so strict and hostile?

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Well, I didn't have to read too far into your post to draw a conclusion here. You're upset because the club owner freaked when you tried to take a drink outside? What planet are you from, dude? That's his ass, his license, his livelihood that you're screwing with out of your lack of respect for the LAW. And if he tells you not to use a door, DON'T USE IT. It's that simple. What's the problem? Well, I can figure that out on my own.

I'm sure, after reading your post, that Claudio probably won't lose too much sleep over you not returning. The word "amateurs" comes to mind. Grow up and realize that you're not rockstars and that you're there to serve the bar and customers. Hell, even the national acts that have played there had to follow his rules. Doesn't seem like a hard thing to do. Let me guess, they didn't have a bowl of all-brown M&Ms in your dressing room either, did they? The wood shed is calling ... I can hear it all the way from Cumberland. r:>)

Ray Wagner · Post by **Ray Wagner** » Saturday May 23, 2009

I don't and never pretended to be a 'rockstar' Robbie old boy. I've played music in this area for over 25 years and always showed respect and courtesy to bar owners and others associated with the business and only expected the same in return. I and my bandmates were not aware of the how tightly the PLCB reigns over bars in the state, but I did take the time to research several related threads. My complaint was a little diplomacy and consideration goes a long way. It might help if take the time to investigate the situation more instead of jumping to conclusions as you so often love to do.

nakedtwister · Post by **nakedtwister** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Yeah it's hard enough trying to find places to play these days and someone wants to bitch because they have to follow a few laws. Claudio was only covering his ass as well as your own. Don't be sour towards Altoona be sour towards the governing bodies. Although the no drink out of the bar law is reasonable.

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Maybe research first, run mouth second would be a better strategy in the future before torching bridges then? And it doesn't take too much research to figure out that taking a drink outside is a huge no-no and the bar owner's ass. I'd think "25 years" experience in the biz would've garnered you that bit of general knowledge. And you said yourself that you had to be warned numerous times about the side door. Why is that? How about when the OWNER says don't do something in HIS place, you just comply on the first request? What's difficult here? I'm sure he flipped because he's dealt with so many people over the years who have no respect for the way things work that he doesn't have the patience for it anymore. It's obvious from your own words who was getting "dissed" in this situation and it wasn't you. But whatever. Good luck.

r:>)

nakedtwister · Post by **nakedtwister** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Claudio may seem abrasive at times but if you consider some of the shit that he has put up with over the past few years it can be justified. Maybe research a little deeper to discover why no side door exit/entrance. He was protecting your butt.

Ray Wagner · Post by **Ray Wagner** » Saturday May 23, 2009

nakedtwister wrote:Claudio may seem abrasive at times but if you consider some of the shit that he has put up with over the past few years it can be justified. Maybe research a little deeper to discover why no side door exit/entrance. He was protecting your butt.

In all honesty, nakedtwister, I am not aware of anything he has dealt with over the years. It was my first time playing at his club and in Altoona for that matter. I did notice after reading several threads that PLCB has been extremely strict on enforcement of public violations like taking drinks outside the bar (which I understand) and noise ordinances (which I am learning seems to be enforced a little too agressively). I will definitely pass along all this info to the rest of the band.

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Ray,
You'll have to realize that RP is a cauldron (for the most part) of ass kissers and people who know the music scene inside and out. People will get another pin on their cub scout uniform for sticking up for Claudio. It's probably not over yet, either.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday May 23, 2009

witchhunt wrote:It's probably not over yet, either.

In that case, I'm sticking by with my official seal.

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Saturday May 23, 2009

bassist_25 wrote:
witchhunt wrote:It's probably not over yet, either.
In that case, I'm sticking by with my official seal.

Yeah, I would. Might wanna add some sparkles to it or something.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Hmm...good point. It's over a year old now; I should probably do a version 2.0 to keep things fresh.

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Saturday May 23, 2009

I already got my ass-kissing patch. I'm currently working on my basket-weaving patch. r:>)

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Saturday May 23, 2009

bassist_25 wrote:Hmm...good point. It's over a year old now; I should probably do a version 2.0 to keep things fresh.

Can't be. The grave is just up the hall and around the corner.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Saturday May 23, 2009

BadDazeRob wrote:I already got my ass-kissing patch. I'm currently working on my basket-weaving patch. r:>)

Well i was his best man at his wedding so you all can suck it...

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Saturday May 23, 2009

Hurricane wrote:
BadDazeRob wrote:I already got my ass-kissing patch. I'm currently working on my basket-weaving patch. r:>)
Well i was his best man at his wedding so you all can suck it...

Don't have my suck it patch ... r:>)

JayBird · Post by **JayBird** » Saturday May 23, 2009

I agree with BadDazeRob...from the get go you seemed pissed cause your singer got yelled at for trying to take his drink outside. Any bar owner would have done the same thing...that is a BIG NO NO in Pennsylvania. Also, most bands know that you never open the load in door once the music starts. This holds true from small bar to national circuit venue.

Baceman Spiff · Post by **Baceman Spiff** » Saturday May 23, 2009

BadDazeRob wrote:Don't have my suck it patch ... r:>)

Get metalchurch to make you one bro, he does good work.

Post by **Jim Price** » Sunday May 24, 2009

I was there on Friday. It was a slow night, as the headlining band cancelled out of the bill and there was little crowd. I didn't witness the singer/drink situation, but there did seem to be a lot of side door activity.

Liquor law enforcement does have club owners on edge in this area, because the least oversight can result in a stiff fine. Carrying a drink out the door is one thing all area venue owners are watching out for. And Claudio has been hit up for noise violations in the past, so he has to be wary about the side door as well.

Sorry to hear about the bad first experience, but use it as a learning experience for what not to do when playing up this way in the future. Your band was pretty good, so you should be able to find other venues up this way to build a fan base. Good luck.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Sunday May 24, 2009

I agree, it's a live-and-learn situation. I got told about using the side-door just last Sunday. I play in a bluegrass band, and I'm out of practice on the noise violations, we don't create enough SPL for it to be a real problem, but the rules are the rules.
I think it'd be unfair to chastise Ray too much about this... it's not like this everywhere. For the record, Ray, our Liquor Control Board in PA is a snakepit of Little Hitlers who use draconian laws to further their careers and exert political pressure. They have cited places for having 3 fewer spoons than necessary in the kitchen, not having ALL the beer signs turned on, and for being able to hear the TV outside the bar. They do it because it looks good in the newspaper to the senior citizens who forget that they used to frequent the same places once. This is a conservative "island" county in a sea of blue, so it's even worse here.--->JMS

Post by **Jim Price** » Sunday May 24, 2009

I agree with songsmith...One area bartender recently told me that an LCE agent once told him during a visit that when agents show up, they WILL find something wrong so they have something to report (even if the venue has no apparent violations). They have to justify the visit and earn their fine money.

And enforcement is tougher in this neck of the woods than the rest of the state. Some commandant is looking for a promotion, and tough LCE enforcement looks good in the newspapers and to his superiors.

nakedtwister · Post by **nakedtwister** » Sunday May 24, 2009

I was kicked out of the cub scouts for being a rebel so I never got any patches. And Claudio and I aren't BF's. But I do recall a shooting there last year that happened right out of the side door so that is one of the reasons I believe there is limited use of it. Prior to that incident he didn't mind too much if the bands used it but no patrons of course. But hey lets tear the door down today for the REED Bros. benefit. Gonna be a great show. B

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday May 24, 2009

songsmith wrote: For the record, Ray, our Liquor Control Board in PA is a snakepit of Little Hitlers who use draconian laws to further their careers and exert political pressure. They have cited places for having 3 fewer spoons than necessary in the kitchen, not having ALL the beer signs turned on, and for being able to hear the TV outside the bar. They do it because it looks good in the newspaper to the senior citizens who forget that they used to frequent the same places once. This is a conservative "island" county in a sea of blue, so it's even worse here.--->JMS

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, Johnny. The Pennsylvania wing of the LCB - or at least Central PA LCB - is a classic example of a governmental agency that has let power go to its head. They almost take joy in fucking with honest people's livelihoods.

onegunguitar · Post by **onegunguitar** » Sunday May 24, 2009

bassist_25 wrote:
songsmith wrote: For the record, Ray, our Liquor Control Board in PA is a snakepit of Little Hitlers who use draconian laws to further their careers and exert political pressure. They have cited places for having 3 fewer spoons than necessary in the kitchen, not having ALL the beer signs turned on, and for being able to hear the TV outside the bar. They do it because it looks good in the newspaper to the senior citizens who forget that they used to frequent the same places once. This is a conservative "island" county in a sea of blue, so it's even worse here.--->JMS
They almost take joy in fucking with honest people's livelihoods.

Bad enough our tax money pays their wages.