Where do you think the music scene is headed in Altoona?

[BassFinger]

I've been looking for a place to buy to do something along these lines.

Here are the best replies when seeking the additional money I would require to do it right:

1. If you want that, wait for Pellegrines to come on the market someday.
2. Why the hell would you want to waste your time with that in Altoona? Do that somewhere else where you'll actually make enough to pay us back.
3. You'll end up like Burgi's, Altoona's market for that is saturated already.

***Note Temporary Avatar***

1. Pellegrines? How long would you be waiting?
2. Unless things start changing, I wouldn't waste my money.
3. Do you really think the failure of Burgi's was due to a an oversaturated market?

I remember average crowds for popular local bands but poor client turnout for any band from out of the area. Burgi's had some other problems that may have lead to it's demise (...serving staff, cooking staff) but it seems as far as a music venue, it should have been successful. The sound wasn't great though.

To put it simply: Its shakeout time for the municipal rock star. The number of active musicians will return to more traditional, pre-Behringer levels.

That's a great was of putting it Jeff! I've thought the same way. Unfortunately, I can only see Behringer announcing their 'budget' line of gear soon.

I'll never post on here with a witty comeback or a deep philosophical thought (...because I'm not capable), but after waddling through all the crap that this thread has produced, we should all see the bottom line. As musicians we need to find ways of diversifying the music scene.

[Banned]

Oh, and having worked on the background music system at Don Pablo's, it would be the worst-sounding room many of us would ever play. High ceilings, squared walls and concrete/brick walls and floor... once you'd load the room above 90dB, it'd be a nightmare of standing waves and other reflection problems. It'd need a lot of room treatment, for sure.
Circuit City would work nicely, though, I think.--->JMS

I agree, I think the Don Pablo's building would end up sounding like Burgi's. Like you are playing in a metal cave. Reverb hell. I did not know about Value City becoming a church. A very big church.

I still think the Giant Eagle building would be ideal if you wanted to add food sales to your music club. It had a kitchen, deli, bakery and freezers so you could probably start with the food sales right away, while working on bar(s). You could even separate the restaurant from the music area. Could we all get along for each put up a couple of hundred dollars and light this candle?

[cucuplex96]

Yes it would sound like a gym.. but get guys in there thats been playing for a decade or more that know what their doing to fix all that.. just like what should have been done to burgi's..

but lets start talking about smaller things that can be done.. buying a venue and making it happen is a lot of work.. lets start with easier shit first.

I am gonna say it again.. I think we need a music showcase right here in Altoona.. where big wigs can come in and shop for talent.. there has been crazy talent in this area for decades. Not just this area but all of new england. We could be the starters of putting the east coast on the map.
Everyone is like, "I am moving to Cali..or Nashville"... lets make people say..I'm moving to somewhere in new england.. Lets bring a large amount of people to Altoona for a music showcase.. like thunder in the vally.. or like the music conference in harrisburg.. Lets drag people here .. boost the local economy..

Lets do something like the NAMM show at the convention centers around here.. There are so many musicians in this area.. the NAMM show would be a success I think.

Lets do some real talking ... lets pull some resources! there are plenty around

[fullthrottle666]

Be patient. Real estate is all about the art of buying, not selling.

Opportunities will arise very soon.

you are soo right! you guys should pool your money and buy up like 5 bars for 100K each. you'd own the scene could do what you want with it

[I have a question]

q.

[RobTheDrummer]

Yes it would sound like a gym.. but get guys in there thats been playing for a decade or more that know what their doing to fix all that.. just like what should have been done to burgi's..

but lets start talking about smaller things that can be done.. buying a venue and making it happen is a lot of work.. lets start with easier shit first.

I am gonna say it again.. I think we need a music showcase right here in Altoona.. where big wigs can come in and shop for talent.. there has been crazy talent in this area for decades. Not just this area but all of new england. We could be the starters of putting the east coast on the map.
Everyone is like, "I am moving to Cali..or Nashville"... lets make people say..I'm moving to somewhere in new england.. Lets bring a large amount of people to Altoona for a music showcase.. like thunder in the vally.. or like the music conference in harrisburg.. Lets drag people here .. boost the local economy..

Lets do something like the NAMM show at the convention centers around here.. There are so many musicians in this area.. the NAMM show would be a success I think.

Lets do some real talking ... lets pull some resources! there are plenty around

I like the ideas, but I just don't think this area has the population to support all of this. Why should a Big Wig come to Altoona when big cities have everything from rock to blues, to hip hop, to jazz within a few blocks? If you look at our demographics, it's old people and welfare....That's what's wrong with the scene.

[Plastered Bastards]

I like the ideas, but I just don't think this area has the population to support all of this. Why should a Big Wig come to Altoona when big cities have everything from rock to blues, to hip hop, to jazz within a few blocks? If you look at our demographics, it's old people and welfare....That's what's wrong with the scene.

BINGO!!!!!
This is what I waiting this whole thread to hear.
I have known this for years,Rug and I have had this discussion with other people as well. Anyone remember the B.C.C.?

[cucuplex96]

Old people and welfare.. well as far as I know thats how it's always been.. and we all know excitement about music used to be a lot better.
I was talking about attracting people in.. people come from all over to MMC and people would come from all over to a NAMM show or something like that... Bring people that are not from here in.. and they will put money into our local economy.

[HurricaneBob]

Altoona Population in July 2007: 46,485. Population change since 2000: -5.8%
Males: 21,804 (46.9%)
Females: 24,681 (53.1%)
Median resident age: 37.4 years
Pennsylvania median age: 38.0 years

How many do we get at a show?
Compared to the population Altoona has more than enough
to support any show, some dont like music, some dont like bars.
They have to be doing something.

I talk with a lot of Pittsburgh blues bands often, there scene isnt much better.

[Colton]

Didnt claudio used to bring in some bigger acts to the area? Why doesnt this happen anymore?

[felix'apprentice]

i've noticed with a lot of people around my age, they'd rather go out and hear a DJ than live music. anyone can press a few buttons on a computer and be a DJ, it takes dedication and talent to be a musician. and id rather see a local musician pour their heart out on the stage than listen to a DJ any day.

[cucuplex96]

There should be a rule..Dj's and karaoke can only be used on mondays

I think people should jump on alternative venues.. Billy Fischer has a party every year. My Dad and I set up a pretty nice sound system for everyone to use.. Its an awesome thing to look forward to every year.. its one place that bands can play every summer.. I think more people should do that very thing.. host a big music party during the summer.. My dad and I have been hosting outdoor shows every summer for 6 years.. and finally billy was nice enough to lend his land.. and so Biker Billy bash was born.. this year will be the 4th year at billy's place.

[Mistress_DB]

Didnt claudio used to bring in some bigger acts to the area? Why doesnt this happen anymore?

I would fathom that cost is a major factor. You'd be surprised just how expensive national acts are.

Bret Michaels had an 8 grand guarantee several years ago and that was before Rock Of Love took off. I wouldn't be shocked if his going price is 12 Grand or more now. And that's prob just for him to do the show and not factoring in his rider and expenses.

[lonewolf]

What really sucks about BMI and ASCAP is that their highest licensing fees are for live entertainment and some of their lower fees are for DJ.

I think they have it bass-ackwards and its actually skewed to hurt themselves by impeding potential membership. The absolute cheapest license should be for live entertainment only and the prices should go up from there. If a venue has an outside vendor that supplys a jukebox with fees paid, that should also cover live entertainment at the venue, but not DJs.

I wonder if we could convince them its in their best interest to do that?

[MeYatch]

I wonder if we could convince them its in their best interest to do that?

That's not a bad idea. I bet they have some contact information. Might just get a form letter response back, but it wouldn't take much time.

[JackANSI]

I've been looking for a place to buy to do something along these lines.

Here are the best replies when seeking the additional money I would require to do it right:

1. If you want that, wait for Pellegrines to come on the market someday.
2. Why the hell would you want to waste your time with that in Altoona? Do that somewhere else where you'll actually make enough to pay us back.
3. You'll end up like Burgi's, Altoona's market for that is saturated already.

1. Pellegrines? How long would you be waiting?
2. Unless things start changing, I wouldn't waste my money.
3. Do you really think the failure of Burgi's was due to a an oversaturated market?

I remember average crowds for popular local bands but poor client turnout for any band from out of the area. Burgi's had some other problems that may have lead to it's demise (...serving staff, cooking staff) but it seems as far as a music venue, it should have been successful. The sound wasn't great though.

Basically I couldn't get anyone even interested in a music based alcohol and snack food only bar. Only thing close was an existing business that was doing ok, but needed a turn around artist to really pop, none of those are for sale right now. (Had to have a food element to appease their restaurateur backgrounds I guess.)

Burgi's and Don Pablo's have an ok layout, any building can be fixed acoustically. I hate it when I go to a bar and have to scream my order to the bartender, I'm sure a majority of people do to. So having the bar almost on the opposite end from the stage, around a corner, would really help (with the right sound absorbing materials employed at the right places).

I didn't like Don Pablo's because of the hotel within earshot of a PA (thanks to the huge windows), and the hotel having paying customers trying to get to sleep right around the time a band would be taking the stage... That is asking for trouble from the start...

The only way to get around the PLCB's noise rule on most of the available existing buildings, aside from changing it or the local laws or reducing volume to a talking level, is to build a larger window-less building right over top of the target building; sound proof with active noise cancellation in between the inner and outer doors. At that level of construction you might as well start fresh anyway.


And yes I'm certain the market is saturated, but in a bad way. The locations are spread out. Its not like downtown State College where you can walk 15 minutes in any direction, pass 3 or 4 bars that have live music, and tons of bands get exposure with little risk for the customer to change venues if they don't like what they hear.

With the cops out scanning for DUI like there isn't anything else to do, once a person decided to go out in Altoona, they pick one place. If their friends aren't into live music, it ends up being a spot with a DJ since they can get whatever they want pumped through the PA with little effort.

[fullthrottle666]

I think you may be trying to start too big and die on the vine. You won't be able to sell enough booze and food to pay the mortgage on those huge places. burgi's couldn't make it with their deep pocketbook why do you think you can do better?

[DirtySanchez]

people as well. Anyone remember the B.C.C.?

I remember hearing about it. Rug was talking about it on Friday. I'm getting a bunch of great input about this label/collective. I just want everyone to be able to get recognition for their art and get it into the hands of as many people possible. I'm not trying to do this for anything besides my passion for music, and my compassion for anyone who creates it. i can't wait til next monday. Then I'll have most of the details worked out and we can all get rolling with it!

Some of you may bitch about the negative turns this thread has taken, but it was probably for the best. Sometimes someone (or 5 someones) need to play the devil's advocate to spark true emotion and thought. This thread has helped me learn a lot. Even more than what xlifenexus wrote.

Fullthrottle- I appreciate your candor and honesty of your posts. More people should shoot straight. The world would be a better place. Hell, this thread would have started out a lot better, that's for sure. And btw- fedup is learning a cover, so come check us out one of these days. Even if you only stay til we finish the cover song.

[JackANSI]

Better is a relative term to the location. Burgi's isn't in a good spot. Only two ways to leave, US220B, North or South. Easy for cops to watch. Only takes a few DUI busts with limited 'options for escape' before people just stop going out of their way to visit regularly from what I see.

Maybe its a naive view of it, but I know a lot of people that hold the same sentiment on areas where speed enforcement is over the top.

It was just a 'what if' in the acoustical repair sense...


The Crowbar (the old State College one that is) is the model I would like to see applied. Don't know why exactly that place went away, but it was a nice intimate setting for some really good shows. I think many people would like to see a place like that return, and not just musicians.

Edit: I'm still working on figuring out exactly why the Crowbar failed.

[RobTheDrummer]

The Crowbar (the old State College one that is) is the model I would like to see applied. Don't know why exactly that place went away, but it was a nice intimate setting for some really good shows. I think many people would like to see a place like that return, and not just musicians.

Edit: I'm still working on figuring out exactly why the Crowbar failed.

Too much overhead, and they weren't drawing big crowds at the time. You also gotta factor in the slow business of the summer. Sure, the Nationals did well, but it wasn't enough. It's actually a pretty decent place now, but they have mostly DJ's. We've played there a couple times, and it was pretty cool.

[Bag]

" And btw- fedup is learning a cover, so come check us out one of these days. Even if you only stay til we finish the cover song."

Play it last.

[Big Jim]

Everyone should stop into Pellys tonight to discuss the current situation further and get aquainted with one another. I'm sure not too many of you are playing out on a Monday night.

Shark Bite will provide acoustic entertainment in a casual, fun atmosphere. Plus there ware food specials and great cold beer, mixed drinks, etc!

I hope to see you there!

[BigJohn]

to take a place like Don Pablo's or giant eagle and make it into a club would take easily TWO or THREE Hundred Grand Dream On !!!!

[Charltor]

to take a place like Don Pablo's or giant eagle and make it into a club would take easily TWO or THREE Hundred Grand Dream On !!!!

at the least, I just think that's a pipedream in this area. Imagine the taxes on a place like that. Something like the Lion's Den with a better in-house system would be more realistic.

[BloodyFingers]

I help put the shows on for the kids in the basement of the Eldoloyn Terrace. Seems all the kids want is punk , sreamo, and hardcore. If this keeeps up when they are of age we will all not be playin in the bars unless from the above 3 genra's.......