Attn : Pro studio and home studio guys

[Killjingle]

what kind of vocal preamp are u using? I have been kicking around getting a UA LA610. They are expensive; and I want to make sure its what I am hoping it will be in my signal chain. I just cant get excited about the ART pro channel one I am using at all. Obviously 300 vs 1500 dollars is a bad comparison, but the ART gold MPA get lots of reasonable reviews in that price range.

Im curious about JoeMeek, Chameleon Labs, lower line Focusrite; that sort of thing. A Focusrite red or Pacifica is out of the question; I am not prepared to spend that kind of money. I have a whole mic locker to play with; but at the end of the day I just dont like the preamp section I am using at all on certain things. Its really been my vocals more than anything lately. Its hard to explain; because I have a really powerful and big voice live; but its so tiny recorded. I dont have a real wide range but its large in the frequencies that it occupies.

A lot of the dudes I have recorded had much smaller or thinner voices and they worked out just fine with the ART and appropriate compression and FX. I started to think that it could be the fact that it is too thick may ultimately be the problem...

[BloodyFingers]

Beleive it or not I use a $80.00 Behringer Shark DSP110. The thing has never let me down. My buget for gagets is very small and can't afford alot on pre's but I have recorded some really nice vocal tracks with it and only using a MXL 440 large diafram mic.

[hicksjd9]

Groove tubes brick and FMR RNP are both PHENOMENAL preamps for the money. I am doing the seventh circle audio thing which I really enjoy. C84s (millenia) and Neve1272 copies are awesome. Getting ready to build an api 312 right now.

[Killjingle]

how much does "the brick" color the sound?

[hicksjd9]

It has a lot of color and warmth. Similar to a UA m610. It's a fantastic vocal preamp and sounds great on acoustic guitar and PHENOMENAL on bass DI. The UA has the edge, but it's about 400 dollars more, and on the used market you can get a brick for 300. So a stereo pair of bricks can be had for the price of one UA. AMAZING DEAL. I own a brick by the way.

If you want uncolored on a budget, look at the fmr rnp (TWO CHANNELS for 350 used!--I own one and it's GREAT) or for a pristine colorless pre choose a grace 101 or dav bg-1 or better yet a seventh circle audio rig with C84 (millenia copy-I own two of these) preamps. It you want high-end uncolored, the John Hardy dual servo is supposed to be the greatest uncolored preamp of all time (based on a Jenson design). Seventh circle makes a J99 module that is nothing short of amazing that copies this design. You have to build the seventh circles, but if you get them a tech can do the work for you or just PM me and I'll build them for you for a small fee.

Seventh circle also makes an api 312 module (amazing for drums and rock guitar) and a Neve module. These are both color pres. Most recording experts prefer a color pre for rock/heavier music.

I don't work for Seventh Circle or anything, but I've made several models now and I'm blown away. These are money pres and you can have 8 in one chassis. Highly recommended for a long-term, lifelong solution to pres.

[Killjingle]

I want a color pre for vocals. Its been a real struggle to get any info because "aggressive metal" engineers and producers other than Andy Sneap seem to be real secretive about what they are using. And when they are not secretive its a 4000 dollar preamp. Because of the lack of clean singing and acoustic guitar work; I am just trying to find something that will give my SM7 and other different mics some more character. I have read a ton of good reviews about the Brick; and have read a lot of good reviews about the MPA gold as long as the stock tubes are taken out. The RNP gets good reviews; but not for the things that I want to accomplish.

The ART pro channel preamp section works pretty good; but the compressor is garbage IMHO. I installed a Telefunken tube in it (preamp side) and it really came to life. All I has was an RCA to put into the compressor; so that could be part of the prob. I try not to compress too much; but it does become a necessary evil with aggresive singing styles. Death metal vox are usually so compressed its stupid. A common trick is to use as much as 10:1. The ART is that mode sounds like a 50 dollar unit. Thats why the la610 looks so attractive; because of the t4 circuit on the compressor side. they are very clean; but the original design of the preamp only has 55 db of gain which does not match up real well with a SM7. the mk2 I think has 70db.

[Killjingle]

on a related note:


I just installed a UAD-1 with the LA2A and 1176LN upgrades. SWEET!!! I dont have PCIe slots; so the new generation of cards that UA makes are something that I cant try at the moment. The 1176SE that comes in the bundle is pretty amazing too.

[hicksjd9]

I've heard those UADs are awesome.

I think a great recommendation for your sm7 is a great river me-1nv. Not cheap but WELL worth it.

[Killjingle]

I have been avoiding the Great River cause of the price; LOL...

I hear great things about them as well

[Killjingle]

JD; I got a card with the plugins for 225. It was a killer deal. The plugins are 300 alone.

[KeithReynolds]

Awesome score on the UAD. Id like to try the UAD-2 Duo out one day.

[hicksjd9]

Lots of guys, including myself, use a compressor to raise the levels of the sm7b and the brick (or similar low gain preamp). You can also do this in software. I have to say though that the most amazing combination I have ever heard...and I mean ever, is my sm7b through the Seventh Circle c84 millenium clone. Especially on screaming/heavy vocals. I mean it's holy grail good. Now if there isn't any singing then I would just go brick-->compressor-->interface and you will be in great shape. It'll thicken growls up beyond belief. I think you would be more than happy if you invested in one of those.

[Killjingle]

sounds good. I think I will.

[tornandfrayed]

Just playing Devil's advocate here, I have had many conversations with local musicians that frown on the use of much processing or "production" in the studio because they cannot achieve the same sound "live".

Sounds like you guys are getting into the production end of this, which I fully agree with, but how does that translate to the live show?

I have long been and advocate of using the studio to create a work that stands alone apart from the live show.

What do you say!

Just curious....

[hicksjd9]

I personally don't share in the belief that the album should sound exactly like the live show. I think it should be the best possible version of that song, because for me, the live show never really compares to the audio fidelity of recordings found on a CD (of course I prefer to see bands live, despite this). Let me put it this way...when you play live, you make mistakes from time to time. If you really want the songs exactly as they are done live, then don't have me punch you in to fix mistakes. How is fixing the occational mistake any different than adding a rhythm track to a 3 piece band during a solo? Can you do a perfect performance live? Sure you can get close, but doing a song with four people and hundreds of thousands of note combinations, this is very unlikely. I guess I feel like if a band really wants the live experience, give me a call and I'll come record you live (all sharp and flat vocal notes, solo slips, etc. in their full glory). If you want a great CD, then lets make it great and do whatever it takes to make it kick the most ass possible.

The fact of the matter is, When I get a CD, I personally want it to be the best possible version of that band's songs. Now as for bands that come into my studio, I respect their position on this 100% and do my best to work with what they want and do things the way they want to do them. If that means just like live, then they are going to get an album like that. If they want the best possible cd, then they are getting the best possible cd with whatever MOJO they (and I) can put into their music.

[Killjingle]

that frown on the use of much processing or "production" in the studio because they cannot achieve the same sound "live

the preamp in this case is simply to be used for making the vocals sound less digital and to help a vocal mic reach its full potential. Some of these preamps and compressors such as the Universal Audio line (designed in the 1960's) and the DBX 160 series (1970's) have been used for the last 30-40 years by all professional engineers;

Live you have volume, fx, and natural reverberation that allow your voice sound bigger. Live u dont have too worry about digital clipping so its not too often u need to compress the vox.

[tornandfrayed]

Good feedback, thanks for the honest opinions!

I also believe that the recording and the live show are two different beast. I feel that production on a recording is important and often bands don't take full advantage of the studio until they get a better feel for what is possible.

Both Chad and JD, you guys seem to care a lot about what you are doing. That, to me is one of the missing ingredients from mainstream production.

Keep up the great work and ideas....

Can't wait to hear more recordings...

[Killjingle]

Dave,

I owe a part of what I know to you. I have been multitracking since I was 15; but when I had to learn digital vs analog u helped me a lot. Trust me... I remember all the 1 hr phome conversations; and the Bill Filer and Paul Bastin sessions my brother and I had with our bands.

Plus I read tutorials and forums all the time.

And even if I have put out some crappy mixes; which Im sure some of us have; I know that I will always care about the end result.