what islam is not.

[songsmith]

Are you suggesting that the rants from Christian TV evangelists are justification for fundamentalist Islamic recruitment and terrorism?

Justification? No.
Similarly dangerous? Oh, yeah. Ask Jim Jones. Wait, you can't he took 1000 people with him when he wigged out. Ask David Koresh... whoops! Okay, so I guess we have dangerous Christians right here in America, but hey, we need to be politically correct, so lets ignore that part.
Type in "Jesus Camp" on Youtube. Tell me what's different about the training camp and groupthink indoctrination than what goes on in an Al Qaeda camp. Differences in rituals are the only differences. To-may-to, to-mah-to.---JMS

[JackANSI]

I re-read this thread...

You guys have to be doing this just to toy with other people on here...

[RobTheDrummer]

Are you suggesting that the rants from Christian TV evangelists are justification for fundamentalist Islamic recruitment and terrorism?

Justification? No.
Similarly dangerous? Oh, yeah. Ask Jim Jones. Wait, you can't he took 1000 people with him when he wigged out. Ask David Koresh... whoops! Okay, so I guess we have dangerous Christians right here in America, but hey, we need to be politically correct, so lets ignore that part.
Type in "Jesus Camp" on Youtube. Tell me what's different about the training camp and groupthink indoctrination than what goes on in an Al Qaeda camp. Differences in rituals are the only differences. To-may-to, to-mah-to.---JMS

Come on now Johnny, you know that's all bullshit. Jim Jones and David Koresh? These guys were cult leaders, not Christians.

As for the Jesus Camp stuff, yea they are nutz, but not nearly the scale of Islamic jihadists. These people don't strap up with explosives to kill innocent people in markets. They don't train with AKs. You're argument doesn't hold water.

[songsmith]

Jim Jones and David Koresh WERE Christian leaders. Right up until they did their worst. Kind of the way Bush was a conservative, right up until even the most neo Neos had to admit his failures.
Cult? Christianity was a cult once. A Jewish man claimed to be the Son of God, and spoke to a small band of followers, and was killed by the Jewish establishment for his actions. "Cult" status is a sliding scale. Koresh and Jones both prayed to a Christian God.

You could float a boatful of Muslim extremist pirates in the water that argument holds. --->JMS

[lonewolf]

Even little things like percentages per. The population of Muslims in
the U.S. is closer to 4% than, the what, 1.9% the show. That alone
kind of skewers their "progress" of acclimation.

The video stated 0.6% and to my utter amazement, they were dead nuts:

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 9s0074.pdf

By contrast, Muslim prison populations (from every source I've seen) are between 15-20%...most converted while in prison.

http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/subd ... allerl.pdf

[songsmith]

... And Koresh didn't just train with AK's... he sold them. McVeigh, too.--->JMS

[RobTheDrummer]

... And Koresh didn't just train with AK's... he sold them. McVeigh, too.--->JMS

Your arguing the past anyway. The problems with Islam are here, now, and world wide. Everywhere you look, they are fighting and killing innocent people in the name of Allah. Just show me the innocents being killed by Christians today, in the name of Christianity. Like I said, your argument doesn't work.

[RobTheDrummer]

Even little things like percentages per. The population of Muslims in
the U.S. is closer to 4% than, the what, 1.9% the show. That alone
kind of skewers their "progress" of acclimation.

The video stated 0.6% and to my utter amazement, they were dead nuts:

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 9s0074.pdf

By contrast, Muslim prison populations (from every source I've seen) are between 15-20%...most converted while in prison.

http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/subd ... allerl.pdf

I don't worry about these ones too much, it's all a gang thing in prison. I betcha that inmate gets out and the first thing he does is throw out his koran and cuffie.

[lonewolf]

Are you suggesting that the rants from Christian TV evangelists are justification for fundamentalist Islamic recruitment and terrorism?

Justification? No.
Similarly dangerous? Oh, yeah. Ask Jim Jones. Wait, you can't he took 1000 people with him when he wigged out. Ask David Koresh... whoops! Okay, so I guess we have dangerous Christians right here in America, but hey, we need to be politically correct, so lets ignore that part.
Type in "Jesus Camp" on Youtube. Tell me what's different about the training camp and groupthink indoctrination than what goes on in an Al Qaeda camp. Differences in rituals are the only differences. To-may-to, to-mah-to.---JMS

Jim Jones? Wasn't he that guy who flew a plane into the Syrian Palace and killed all those people on a suicide mission?

And David Koresh...yeah, I remember...he was the guy who drove up to the Pakistan Embassy in a truck bomb and killed 241 Pakistanis.

Yeah...those guys were bad news.



Apples are red, green & yellow, oranges are, well...orange.

[songsmith]

Your arguing the past anyway.

Boy, is that line going to bite you in the ass in a future political post.
Incidentally, I agree with you on Islam in prison. I'd bet a lot of so-called White-power guys grow their hair back once they get out, too. You do what you have to, to keep from getting bufu-ed or shanked. Or shimmed, as my wife says. She thinks they call home-made knives "shims." It's very cute. I always tell her when you're in prison, you have to stay perfectly plumb, otherwise they'll shim you. --->JMS

[JackANSI]

Or shimmed, as my wife says. She thinks they call home-made knives "shims." It's very cute. I always tell her when you're in prison, you have to stay perfectly plumb, otherwise they'll shim you. --->JMS

Thats funny stuff right there. First time this week I've laughed out loud. I thank you much.

[RobTheDrummer]

Your arguing the past anyway.

Boy, is that line going to bite you in the ass in a future political post.
Incidentally, I agree with you on Islam in prison. I'd bet a lot of so-called White-power guys grow their hair back once they get out, too. You do what you have to, to keep from getting bufu-ed or shanked. Or shimmed, as my wife says. She thinks they call home-made knives "shims." It's very cute. I always tell her when you're in prison, you have to stay perfectly plumb, otherwise they'll shim you. --->JMS

Oh my, I could see that now...."What the fuck is that thing c.o.?"

[slackin@dabass]

you can argue that all muslims you know are peaceful people. i'd like an accurate number of muslims you know. if there are only .6% of people in america that are muslim, then i have a real feeling that however many you know, it's alot less than should even count. and also remember, according to their religion, you are an outsider. your an infidel. your an enemy. would you share your plans with the enemy?


watch religulous with bill mayher. see what these people think. see how they act with an outsider who is doing no more than asking why they believe what they believe. remember, all the terror attacks are political. but all their politicians are devout followers of the koran.

[bassist_25]

you can argue that all muslims you know are peaceful people. i'd like an accurate number of muslims you know. if there are only .6% of people in america that are muslim, then i have a real feeling that however many you know, it's alot less than should even count. and also remember, according to their religion, you are an outsider. your an infidel. your an enemy. would you share your plans with the enemy?

I'm having trouble seeing your logic with this point. That's not a slam; I'm just really confused as to what is your point. Are you saying that knowing a few Muslims in real life is not a statistically significant indicator of the Muslim culture as a whole?

watch religulous with bill mayher. see what these people think. see how they act with an outsider who is doing no more than asking why they believe what they believe. remember, all the terror attacks are political. but all their politicians are devout followers of the koran.

I've always been a pretty big Bill Maher fan, but the man is biased and has always had an ax to grind with religion. I'd like to watch his video - mainly because like I said, I've always enjoyed Maher, along with Politically Incorrect and Real Time - but my experience tells me that his film is probably about as objective as a Michael Moore documentary or a Rush Limbaugh commentary.

Again, I'm not saying that Islamic extremism doesn't exist and isn't a problem. I'm just saying that I don't think everyone's looking at the big picture here.

[VENTGtr]

Just show me the innocents being killed by Christians today, in the name of Christianity. Like I said, your argument doesn't work.

Works quite well, actually. There are Christain “Terrorist” groups in India, Africa (Mainly in Uganda and Sudan, as well as U.S. established Liberia), places in Southeast Asia, Israel where that’s exactly the case. There are STILL things that occur in Ireland.

Just because you’re not aware doesn’t mean it’s not there.

There were plots by a Christian group in Texas to blow up OTHER Christian
churches because they believed in religious plurality rather than a
single denomination of Christians, there was this one"

"On September 11, 2006, the fifth anniversary of the terror attacks
that devastated our nation, [Christian fundamentalist David McMenemy]
crashed his car into a building in Davenport, Iowa, hoping to blow it up
and kill himself in the fire."

FAIL.

The guy who was trying to kill Coloroado's governor:

"God is preparing me mentally to kill thousands of police officers,” he wrote at one point. “In the streets, all slain.”

Can you SEE the headlines if it started with "Allah".

The shooter in CO in January said "If you're not Christian, you're going
to die."

The goof also shot a Catholic. Seems that didn't count.

Argument SEEMS to be that once these people killed...they don't count
as Christians anymore..."Isn't that conveeeenient".

AND, though this discussion has been based around religion, ideology isn’t that different. We’ve had Planned Parenthood bombings here, etc. and 3 cops killed in Pittsburgh a few days ago.

[lonewolf]

I'm not sure what points anybody is making here. All I can make are a few observations:

Except for Turkey and Iraq (for now), the video is fairly accurate as far as the conditions that exist in today. That does not confirm the conspiracy theory, but it does lend some creedence to it. I have heard a few stories about Muslim communities in the upper Midwest that want to establish Sharia for their local government.

The US Constitution and every state constitution forbids the establishment of religion, therefore Sharia is forbidden inside the United States. Even the slightest evidence of Sharia in the US should be handled with at least the same vigor with which they banned prayer in schools.

Unless of course, as the video states, Sharia is not a part of a religion, but is simply the legal component of a secular Islam alongside other components like the religious component.

[JackANSI]

I wish religion and state were seperate in the US..

[VENTGtr]

Except for Turkey and Iraq (for now), the video is fairly accurate as far as the conditions that exist in today.

Well, no, they're not the only ones. However, the point of the video, apparently, is an attempt to make people afraid of Islam taking over
the world...which some seem to think is happening for some reason,
and TRYING to say how it happens. Unfortunately, people can sit there
and, without any evidence whatsoever, be convinced "Hey, ya, that's
happening!".

I saw a video on YouTube of a cat pulling a train down the tracks at high
speed. Was much more convincing...and quite entertaining.

No, Sharia law shouldn't be established here. If there were aspects that
made more sense, just as with any better ideas, sure. We revise laws.
But to make it the "rule of the land", of course not.

Incidentally, Blackwater apparently asked to be judged under Sharia law
in at least one case, because they thought they had a better chance of
being found responsible for the deaths of some of its employees.

As for ANY religion in government...what Rob said.

[lonewolf]

Except for Turkey and Iraq (for now), the video is fairly accurate as far as the conditions that exist in today.

Well, no, they're not the only ones.

Those are the 1st significant countries that to come to mind. What other significant countries are exceptions?

[VENTGtr]

Certainly Jordan. It's close to Iraq, so our mess may cause some
concern, but you'd be just as safe as anywhere else. I know a few
people who've been to Bahrain and liked it. The restructured Bosnian Hurstwhenitgoesinya is a majority Muslim and things have been pretty
calm there for a while. Malaysia, Brunei, Albania, all come to mind.

Some North African countries that cater to tourist and go without event.

Sure there are others, but, ya Turkey and Jordan would be my first
choices as far as the common ones you'd think of.

[Banned]

I wish religion and state were seperate in the US..

The new and growing religion in the US is worship of the state.

[lonewolf]

I wish religion and state were seperate in the US..

The new and growing religion in the US is worship of the state.

[lonewolf]

Certainly Jordan.

They have a monarchy based on Islamic law and Sharia courts. Even though they are pretty lame and act civilized, they're still in the Islamic tank about as deep as Saudi Arabia.

Also, these are exceptions we're talking about here, not the rule.

With only a few exceptions, thats pretty damn accurate for a theory about a worldwide social topic. I'd like to see if this is just coincidental or if there really is a scientific correlation.

[slackin@dabass]

I'm having trouble seeing your logic with this point. That's not a slam; I'm just really confused as to what is your point. Are you saying that knowing a few Muslims in real life is not a statistically significant indicator of the Muslim culture as a whole?

yea, pretty much hit the nail on the head there.



i never intended the video to start all this debate or whatever. i just thought it was interesting and figured i'd share and get some other views. i see the point vent guitar is making, but i really do see the violence that the muslim religion is accused of. i'm not aware of any of these christian sects he keeps referring to, but i'll research it. i've always thought religion was dangerous in all forms. but the muslims also seem to be directing their hate or whatever at my way of life. their threatening my way of life directly. not the christians. that's why i thought it was worth discussing.

[nakedtwister]

Rockpage = Promoting racism on a daily basis

It's Americanism not racism. Someone please enlighten me on the Muslim religion. If we are concidered infidels because we are not of the Muslim faith then we are considered more or less an enemy to Muslims. Why would I want to be friends with an enemy. Would you be Adolf Hitlers buddy if you were Jewish because someone said it was racist to hate him? Don't keep busting out the Race Card. It doesn't apply here. At least with my views. If someone doesn't respect my culture then don't expect me to respect theirs.