Guitarists!!! - Live Tone...HELP!

[aMindBesideItself]

Ok..so I have the equpitment. Mesa Mark IV, processors out the cooter, and some good guitars. I have some ability, and I sound great on my own. But as soon as I go outside of the walls in my room...disaster strikes. My fingers don't move like they should when I'm in front of people, but I'm not nervous. Do you know what I mean?

My question is:
How do you maintain the gain and fluidity of the low volume distortion at very high volumes? What are your tone secrets? HELP!!!

[robsottile]

As far as my fingers not doing what they do at home, I don't have that problem, but with tone - I think less is best. I mean as far as "processors out the cooter". I have a "Dry" sound I guess. I use les pauls through a Dual Rectifier that I pretty much run strait into. I use a crybaby, a line6 modulation pedal and a delay very sparingly. Mainly with clean stuff. No reverb. And I think the biggest thing is to not go gain crazy. My gain is usually on 4 or 5. It just really cuts through at high volumes.

[Possessed]

If you are playing with a band. Boost your mids and cut the lows(not too much!) and let the bass player take care of the low end. You may think your sound isn't as good but when the bass kicks in you will sound much better. Your tone will cut through.
My opinion is too many processors can mud up your sound. I just use a Bronze series warlock, a Boss GT-6, and a Crate Blue Voodoo amp. It took a while to get the good sound but I tweaked for hours to get it right. I know your Mesa has tone for days. You just have to set up your sound for loud volumes. Crank it and work on it. Start from just the basics. Clean tone First then add Gain until the level sounds good. then EQ, Start at zero the whole way across then boost the lows a little then the highs. Cut the mids only if you need to.
Don't add FX until you have a really good dry sound. Use the FX just to round out the tone. Chorus Delay Reverb etc. Remember too many FX can be a bad thing.


For your fingers I know it's boring but find and learn as many warmup exercises that you can. Find the one that you are most comfortable with. (NOT THE EASIEST ONE) A good warm up will take you a while to learn and always be hard to play. Start slow and speed up until you are flying.
Don't forget chord exercises too they help immensely!
Also if you can play all your leads on the clean channel and keep fluid you will shred everytime. I know its a bitch, sounds like shit and it is boring as hell but it helped me more than anything.
I go through a warm up routine every time I play and I notice I am not as precise if I skip the warm up. If you sing warm up your voice as well. You will be much more comfortable and in control even singing back ups.
Hope this helps at least a little.

[Punkinhead]

I just plug straight into my amp for my live sound...I use an effects rack but I have it bypassed all the time unless it is needed, eliminating most of its tone cutting.....

As for my fingers not doing what I want live...that's tougher...I just practice my ass off till I can play the passage that gives me trouble like it's second nature....Kevin Eubanks said that playing something in front of an audience is like practicing it 50 times...so if something gives me trouble I figure running through it 75-100 times will make it better, and it usually does....

Oh, always, always warm up before going on stage or playing at all for that matter....your problem might just be tightness too....

[Killjingle]

I have an odd question. It doesnt refer to tone, but could explain why your fingers feel odd to you. How often do you practice standing up? When I write a riff for my band, or try more intricate rhythms, when I stand up they are much harder to execute. Another thing I have learned is that warm kinda heavy tone you may have in your bedroom doesnt translate well onstage. Your guitar will get lost in the mix every time, especially if you play with a bass player who has really good tone. You need to roll the mids up some so your guitar will cut. And effects for metal are cool, but over processing it will kill your loud volumes.

[tonefight]

If your practice sound sounds killer and your stage sound doesn't it could be almost a mental / feel thing that is holding you back live. If you are not feelin it that'll shows and if your sound isn't there your not gonna feel it. If you are lost in the stage mix the same thing can happen , can't hear your self and ya just don't have the feeling when you play, you'll loose your dynamics and everything.

An I agree with what these guys have all said about sound, that supper dupper processed sound is hard to bring in live especially if there is another guitar player running a dry thick sound. The other guitar player in an old band had that problem, he insisted on all kinds of effects and I ran staright in dry crunch with lots of mids and walked all over his thin woosy sound ( without the expensive processor ).

[bassist_25]

Remember, the purpose of your EQ is to compensate for the different sound variables that you encounter with every room you are in. The EQ setting you have in your bedroom isn't going to give you the same sound in your basement; which isn't going to give you the same sound at Peter C's; which isn't going to give you the same sound at an outside gig; which isn't going to give you the same sound at the Ryman Auditorium. Everything from the material the stage is made out, to the number of bodies on the dance floor is going to effect your tone.

There's nothing wrong with using a lot of processing, but always use the bare minimum you can get away with. Everytime you add something to your chain, you're affecting your tone. Also, that's one more thing that can malfuction at a gig. Your whole sound might be dead just because you have a bad patch cable going from your flange pedal to your compressor.

But when it comes down to it, I have to echo the philosophy of a famous bass player that I happen to admire - "It's all in the hands." Classically trained musicians spend much of their time drilling away at bowing techniques, intonation, embouchers, ect. Their not worrying about what type of rosen is the best, or if Bundy makes a better trumpet than Yamaha. They know that it doesn't matter if they're playing a Stradivarius or some student level violin - if they're technique isn't perfected, they're going to sound like a dying cat. (so to speak )

Cramped hands always suck. Running through your scales is always a good idea, but when you are doing so, remember to force shifts that will loosen your hands up. In other words: Don't just run through your scales in a linear fashion. Instead, play your scales by moving up in thirds. For example, if you decide to play a G major scale, first play the G on the E string; then play the B on the A string. After that, go back and play the A on the E string; then play the C on the A string. Do that until you go the whole way through your G scale. That's one of those "spider" scales that a lot of drills involve. You can use any interval you like; if you want to move up in 5ths, try that. Just keep your fingers shifting so you're not just moving your fingers in a linear fashion. Always remember to take the most economical route when playing a passage. Speed isn't about how fast you can physically pick; it's about the economy of motion. Always keep your thumb on the back of the neck. You'll never be able to reach your maximum speed, or your maximum hand spread if your thumb is over the top of the neck. That's not to say you should never have your thumb over the neck. There are times where you may want to do that (SRV's rhythm mute style was due to him keeping his thumb over the neck); it's just that you don't want your thumb over the neck when you play a fast passage.

Hope some of that helps. Don't get too discouraged. I remember that you wailed at the Rockpage jam.

[Matt_22]

I play through a Mesa Dual rect. and the best tone when playing with a band comes with all your eq's on the head set at about 12 o'clock. I set my bass at 7, my mids at 6, and my highs at 5 and my gain on about 6. In a mesa head the gain is the first preamp on the chain and that makes it more powerful. The Gain will also give you a very high end sound. When playing with a band if I pushed my gain any higher than 6 o'clock the sound out front sounded like poop. Other than that the only other effect that I keep on full time is a Boss ns-2 noise suppresor. It adds a little punch, and cleans everything up at loud volumes.

[Sanctify]

I play a mesa triple rectefier... don't know my current settings cause I just play with em till I like the sound...

I know mesa amps come with suggested settings... you can find them in the manual... try them...

as far as fingers not doing what you tell them? unless it's a cramp... it's gotta be nerves, IMHO... I've had cramps on stage before but it usually just takes a good shake between songs to get them "uncramped" I don't do any "warm up exercises" specifically.. but I do usually jam for 30 min before I leave my house for a gig... I find that helps me to stay loose...

[lonewolf]

Sometimes adding a little presence can give you a little more pick attack response. Does your cab have EVM12L(s)? They can sometimes get overbearing and I prefer the Celestion 90s made for Boogie.

If you have a 1-12" combo, you might just need an extension cab. Sometimes not having enough paper pushing the air can give you a dead response in a big room. If so, try a M/B thiele 1-12" with a celestion 90. It will compliment your open back combo and add some bottom. If you have a stack...nevermind all that.

If you use the Boogie "V" EQ method, where you make a "V" out of the EQ sliders and move the center one up and down for different tones, try the down position, and see if that makes a difference to your response. If you like that, you may have to crank it a little more to cut thru the mix.

[aMindBesideItself]

Thanks for all the replys. I appreciate these tips!!

[Mackovyak]

There's no real "magic" numbers you can use to set your sound. Like stated above, Eq's are on there for sound compensation. The shelving knobs that are on your amp are for you to get your desired sound. You should invest in a graphic eq of some sort for room compensation.

You should roll off some of your lows in general when playing with a band to clear up the overall sound. Let the bass player do his job and have your guitar cut through it.

As far as rooms, highly reflective spaces are going to cause your sound to be rich in highs due to the bass rolloff that occurs with the rooms reverb. As it fills with people, you'll notice the bass thickening. Eventually you'll have to cut some low end to keep the overall sound from getting muddy as the hundreds and hundreds of fans cram into the venue!

Finally, like I said before, there are no magic numbers, but you can always talk to other guitarists about what they've noticed in certain venues and in general you can effect the guitars fullness at about 240 hz and it's bite at about 2.5 khz.

Sorry if this post is choppy had an absynthe night last night. The real stuff.

[redawg]

I dislike reverb alot on a guitar. I have a difficult time mixing guitar players who use reverb on their sound.

[Craven Sound]

I always used to rip on my good friend Daxman about how long it took him to set up his Boogie before a show. He would get mad and say "I need to set my tone". I swear in some rooms it took him an hour plus, and when you want to do a sound check, it got monotonous. Just remember it will never sound as good as it does at home, and every room will have different acoustics.

[songsmith]

I think sometimes people fall prey to the idea that every single ingredient in the mix first has to sound full on it's own, then it will be okay. I've seen this in the studio situation a lot... but it's simply not true. Sometimes, in fact most times, if you get a good overall mix on the studio console then cue up a rhythm guitar track, it'll sound nasal and wimpy, but bring up the bass to go with it, and it sounds worlds better. This train of thought goes against the "more me" atttitude, but your priority should be the song, not the player, and is the cause of many long expensive hours arguing in the studio. I would guess it's the same onstage. I try to get a neutral tone, enough level to just hear myself, and let the PA do the heavy lifting. Your mileage may vary, however... I don't consider myself to be a great guitarist, and onstage noodlers drive me nuts (soundman's pet peeve), so I don't screw with it very long.----->JMS