for the kerry fans

[esa]

In closing, all I have to say is - As a Republic, or a Democracy, we, as citizens, have lost control of our country. People need to start thinking before they pick a side of the polls..... GWB is a businessman who invaded a country for personal and financial reasons.... He has killed over 1,000 of our boys over there, and there is no sign of it ending. THINK ABOUT IT.

But the question to be asked there is this: If this man was not in office, how many more of our men, women and children would be dead? Personally, I'd rather have people shooting at the enemy on their turf and dying then having the enemy on our turf killing our people while we are *not* fighting. I don't want people dead. But sadly, people do go play nicey nice in this world. I'm sorry. I'm a mortal human female who watched how many hundreds of thousands of people die in my lifetime...at the hands of idiots and crazies, in the name of religion or their gods, or whatever voice inside their heads tells them, "You you destroy them, power will come." It's like a sick field of dreams versioned movie. No, I don't want to see anymore bloodshed. But if it comes to it, I support our president and our men and women over there. I'm sorry if they die. But a life lost in war protecting the lives of others is worth more in the end then that of a coward or a person who totters back and forth on political views just so he can get a bigger pay check. Again, I'm not putting any of you down.. I'm just saying.. I'd rather die fighting over there than shrug off what happened in September because I don't want to be bothered with it.
Perhaps we should have the towers on tv again. Watch them people jump from the buildings. The plain crash in Sommerset. We forget too easily the furry we felt that day. The president was a hero then. Juliani (sp?) was a hero then... now all I hear is Bush is a schmuck. Well. stuff it. Get some patriotism. Get a clue. Support your troups. Let the man finish what he started and let him bring our boys home victorious.

[lonewolf]

So wich of your wondeful candidates is gonna fix the economy?

Neither, Tony. Its not their job. Even if it was, they don't have the power to do it, never did...and hopefully never will. Our whole system of government is based on preventing government from gaining that much power. The only thing a president can do to help the economy is to say positive things, keep smiling, and stay the hell out of the way of the free market system.

Imagine a world of 10% unemployment, 12% inflation and 18% interest rates. That's where the economy was when I went on my own at 20. Times have been worse...a hell of a lot worse...and times have been better, but, by comparison, not that much better.

1997-2000? That was just a pipe dream. The exception, not the rule.

[bfoust]

I'd rather have people shooting at the enemy on their turf and dying then having the enemy on our turf killing our people

Exactly.

[CHICKSINGA]

Funny how GWB has stated "God" and "My religious beliefs" as if he has a strong religious background.

I thought the First Commandment is "Thou shalt not kill"

Not much room for interpretation there.

My response to the above was apt. I was pointing out the fact that children are killed in utero daily. KILLED. Abortion doesn't tickle the baby. It kills it. You can sugar-coat that all you want. I don't judge people for it. I have friends who have had abortions. I don't hate them, but I don't believe what they did was right.
George Bush and the Republican Party as a norm don't believe in Abortion. I subscribe to that.
The soldiers in Iraq are dying for freedom. Hussein and Al Qaeda and their ilk left unchecked will make this world un-livable. And in that world you will no freedoms at all. I've thought about it constantly. There are many dead soldiers in the past who have kept this country and world a better place. Would have Hitler had gone unchecked? It's absolutely the same thing.

I'll repeat something I posted elsewhere:

The problem with society is that we've decided to make our government Big Brother as long as it's holding our hand and powdering our asses. Liberals want socialism, really. They want the government to hand them jobs and health care and free this and that. And where does that money come from? Taxes. And what that creates is a society of docile sheep with they're hands out, content to pilfer hard earned money from those who have the drive and initiative to get ahead. This kind of attitude quashes free enterprise and capitalism in the guise of equality. And that, dear friends, is Communism. And I ask you, where, ever, has Communism succeeded?
The world is survival of the fittest. You can either get up and face the challenges of life with your head held high and your resolve strong - or - you can whine about the government.

ALSO - Johnstown got a break. What better advertising than that? Do you know how much primetime like that costs? Quit whining!

Our country is out of control because the Liberal Media runs it. Let me ask you what have you done to deserve the "care" you think you deserve from the government? Personally I thank God everyday that there is a person in power who at least cares about our safety.

[RobTheDrummer]

Why do people always bitch about the president sending troops to fight for us? I mean you didn't hear anything like what you hear now when Clinton was in office...he deployed more troops than any other president in the last 50 years, but you never heard anything about him "killing people." If Clinton would have done the same as Bush, he would have been a savior by the liberal media's standards.

[bassist_25]

Question for those who claim there's a liberal bias in the media: Are you as equally indignant about the right-wing bias that comes from Fox News?

As far as the socialism/capitalism debate - I've stated many times that I'm pro-capitalism. My problem with Marx and Engels is purely one of logic and not idealolgy. Personally, I think trying to eliminate class struggle is a good thing. Even the blueprint of communism benefits the working man. Hard work is rewarded, because the more work you put into something, the higher the labour-value rises. (Of course, we can argue why labour-value is actually reduced when a manufacturer needs to mass-produce to meet demand, but I'm not trying to create a huge dicussion on Marxism) Capitalism has nothing to do with hard work. Not to go touting the Natural Law platform again, but I would like to see an economy where many of the workers own large amounts of stock in the companies they work for. Then again, the rich get richer while the..........well, you know the rest.

[lonewolf]

Are you as equally indignant about the right-wing bias that comes from Fox News?

I do believe you are confusing "right-wing" with "mainstream". Naturally, any mainstream network will be to the right of all the rest. I see a little bias for both sides at times, but generally, FOX gives both sides equal treatment, especially the far-left and the far-right. During the Iraqi war, there were several instances when they were criticized for not telling the same story that the other networks were spinning, but it turned out that FOX was right. One of the biggest misconceptions is that that O'Reilly guy is biased. Not true. Straight down the middle of the road. You will hear a lot of liberals take stabs at him because he does it to them...from the middle. He doesn't have much good to say about the right-wing media either. Watch O'Reilly for a week and keep score. You will be surprised.

[CHICKSINGA]

Paul,
Capitalism has nothing to do with hard work? Are you kidding?! I think that as an IDEAL Communism is great. Let's all pull together for the greater good would be a fabulous concept - if it was realistic. But human nature doesn't tend to work that way - no matter how good our intentions are, especially today. I prefer to see the human race in it's true form, competitive and craving reward. And I think the bent to be driven to suceed will always be the heartbeat of what makes the US the best country in the world.
As for the so-called right bias of Fox News – although I really feel the coverage is balanced, I think it’s only appropriate that at least one network in a VAST sea of liberality is totally justified! (as well as refreshing) I think Fox News is very centrist but in comparison to the other networks it’s bound to appear conservative-leaning.

ps – about “workers own large amounts of stock in the companies they work for ” umm...ENRON? Personally you can have stock, gimme real estate, baby! (a little levity, eh?)

[bassist_25]

I still stand by my belief that hardwork has nothing to do with capitalism. You don't get rich by working; you get rich by owning capital and using it by investing. I know - that's sort of the Marxist way of looking at things. That's not to say you won't get what you deserve if you start your own business and pour you heart and soul into it. It's just saying that's not really what makes capitalism work. I agree, Marxism doesn't work because it discounts human nature. People are greedy selfish fucks that have just moved Darwinist principles from the jungle to society. That's just my pop-psychology opinion, but I'm sure if it were researched, much of it would be true. My cynical satire about job-hunting in the other thread holds a lot of truth in it; people without the right last name are going to have to fight three times harder for employment (even when they are also three times more qualified) than someone who has nepotism working for them.

Trace, I love it when you say fabulous. I would say it, but then people would probaly think that I'm gay. *LOL* I need a cool trademark word.
I think I'll say morphinomical. Remember Kimberely from the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers? She use to say morphinomical all the time. Remember all the spin off shows that came after MMPR? VR Troopers was pretty cool. Wasn't there also some other show about the people being from Beverly Hills or something?

[lonewolf]

I still stand by my belief that hardwork has nothing to do with capitalism. You don't get rich by working; you get rich by owning capital and using it by investing.

That's not marxist at all and its essentially correct. The Peter Principle is alive and thriving right now, and I have been falling prey to the Blair County nepotism you speak of since before you were born. It would be ludicrous if it wasn't so pathetic. However, if you start with nothing, as I did, hard work and sacrifice will get you the seed capital. Working hard at real estate on the side is the best way I know to get started.

[tonefight]

I still stand by my belief that hardwork has nothing to do with capitalism. You don't get rich by working; you get rich by owning capital and using it by investing.
?

This is very true and ......... Money makes money and if you don't have it to start with then your just plain outta luck sorry your daddy wasn't rich.

[CHICKSINGA]

It's weird - I know a bunch of people who didn't grow up rich or connected, but went to school and worked hard and they are doing fine. Myself and husband included. Yes, after 9/11 I got laid off and had to downsize a bit. But I'm still ok. I don't sit and blame the world. I get out there and WORK FOR IT, BABY!
Ain't it fabulous!

Sorry Paul - too old for Power Rangers! Don't recall them.

[RobTheDrummer]

You can take any system and critique the hell out of it, but the fact is, this country has the best setup in the world. It all comes down to education. If you work hard to gain knowledge, you can become anything and do anything you want. It's all about education.

[bassist_25]

That's not marxist at all and its essentially correct.

Oops, I should have been more articulate with what I said. What I meant is: How I was looking at capitalism is the same cynical way that Marx looked at it.

I also believe that you can build wealth without starting with vast amounts of wealth; that's why I'm in school. I'm not totally cynical about the system. If I were, I wouldn't be in school, or trying to start my own business. I don't believe in a total egalitarian society, but I think everyone should have the same opportunities.

I'm very interested in investing, though. Real estate does seem to be the way to go. I would like to eventually start a trailer park. Unfortunatley, I don't have the start up capital right now. I imagine I'll have to go through all kinds of governmental red tape to do it, though. (I guess now would be a good time to be getting in good with my local government officials) My aunt use to always say, "Real estate is a good investment, because they're not making any more land."

Trace, I feel sorry for anyone that hasn't experienced the total awesomeness that is Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

[bassist_25]

It all comes down to education. If you work hard to gain knowledge, you can become anything and do anything you want. It's all about education.

I agree with you; but that means giving everyone the same opportunities. In other words that means Pell Grants, Stafford Loans, Perkins Loans, scholarships, ect. And all of those are socialist programs. That's what I'm saying: By paying into a socialist program now, you can empower those that will eventually become productive members of society later on. Where as you could deny people educational opportunties, and wind up paying socialist programs for the rest of their lives. (i.e. welfare, food stamps, utility caps, ect.) Hell, even the GI Bill is a socialist program when you get down to it - we're the ones funding the military.

Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't be against all forms of socialism, and expect people to rise to the top without being given an opportunity. That's what I said in a previous thread (Hell, it might have been this one): Some socialist programs are necessary.

If it weren't for socalist programs helping people go to college, (and that also includes programs that don't have anything to do with grants/loans such as daycare help for non-traditional students, paid milage for commuters, ect.), then college would only contain the wealthy elite and a few kids who won scholarships.

[lonewolf]

Unfortunatley, I don't have the start up capital right now.

In 1986, I bought a house at a tax sale for $1000 and the lot next to it for $1 and the lot next to it for another $1. All it really needed was a few sheets of drywall and some elbow grease. A few weeks later, a landlady offered me $5000 clear for it, so yeah, why not. As soon as I got the deeds, I sold it to her. A few weeks later, I used that money as down payment to buy 6 acres for $18K near what is now the 322/I99 interchange in State College. 6 months later, I sold that for $36K. $1002 to $23,000 in 8 months. Then there was that fully occupied 4 unit brick apartment building for $3000. My house in Hollidaysburg...you guessed it, $2000 at a tax sale in 1997. Last April, I bought a big house in a nice neighborhood in Duncansville at tax sale for $19K, put $25K into it and its up for sale at $90K. There were plenty of properties around $1000 at that sale. I have a lot more R.E. stories, but the jist of it is, this is still going on and it doesn't take much.

[stonekrow]

And this one time at band camp.......er, a......nevermind.

[lonewolf]

If it weren't for socalist programs helping people go to college, (and that also includes programs that don't have anything to do with grants/loans such as daycare help for non-traditional students, paid milage for commuters, ect.), then college would only contain the wealthy elite and a few kids who won scholarships.

Then there's another novel concept, its called working your way thru school. I did it twice...its very gratifying.

[Jacklyn Miauff]

Well I have been watching all of your posts for awhile now. Haven't commented on any of them since everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I think it is great that all of you are taking an interest in politics and who the next leader of our country will be. I just hope that you are all REGISTERED VOTERS!!!! and plan to vote instead of just voicing your opinion here on this board.

It's been quite interesting listening to your opinions. As for me? I have worn my combat boots in my earlier years and I also was adopted as a small child. My mother was going to abort me because my father wouldn't marry her. I was her second child...........first child the father she had been married to (She was 24 years old and living on her own already). This was a stupid reason to try to abort me, so obviously I got lucky and was spared and given to a wonderful couple. But I do believe there are certain situations (in my own mind) when abortion is ok. I may be wrong about that! Every situation is different. I wouldn't want to be the one to make the decision on what the circumstances would have to be, and God Bless those people who have had to make that decision.




So everyone please vote.

[bassist_25]

Then there's another novel concept, its call working your way thru school. I did it twice...its very gratifying.

But can someone working at McDonald's or Wal-mart afford to pay all of the expenses out of their own pocket? I'm not saying that you shouldn't work while in school, but you can't pay full tuition and living expenses (if you're living on your own) if you make $5.25 an hour. I know, I know: Get a better job. Well, that's why their in college.

And I have to hit up some tax auctions to acquire some land. Man, I need to get into real estate. Maybe I can have a billboard with my picture on it. That would be morphinomical. Jeff, could you recommend any good books on investing? (...that would take me through the basics of everything. i.e stocks, bonds, mutual funds, day-trading, ect.)

Jacklyn, knowing that you could have been aborted must be a serious mind fuck. It's great that your mother decided to have you and put you up for adoption instead. I agree - we all need to vote!

[stonekrow]

I recently moved to Pittsburgh and If I recall it was about a week into my moving process that a gentleman was making his rounds on foot registering people. It was very convenient and the timing was perfect so Im all set, In fact I just got my Voter I.D. card in the mail and all the details on the polling location. I agree with you totally Jacklyn on the abortion issue, those are my thoughts exactly. It's a tough thing to decide, so as a man maybe it's not my place to have a strong opinion on it unless I was put in the situation myself, afterall it is the womans body. Just my thoughts though I suppose. I couldn't imagine it being an easy decision.

[lonewolf]

Jeff, could you recommend any good books on investing?

One up on Wall Street...Peter Lynch

Of course, there is the broad overview: Stock Investing for Dummies

Anything from the Motley Fool. Check out their website:

www.fool.com

[Jacklyn Miauff]

Thank you Stonekrow and Bassist for your thoughts. I do absolutely fine with the fact of being adopted. But I am very strong minded anyhow so things don't affect me as hard as other people. I also served in the Army and I wonder how many of these people voicing their opinions actually wore combat boots? I went in for the College Money!!! That is absolutely the worst reason for being there!!! Don't know if I could have killed anyone in battle??? But that is the job I signed up for so it would have been my duty to do so. I knew signing that paper that decisions in my life were in other peoples hands, and thats the way the cookie crumbles.

Also.........this might sound rude.............but if you aren't a registered voter: You have no business voicing your opinion here at all. So that's why I absolutely hope all these people making statements on here are registered and I would feel much better!!! LOL People say that their 1 vote doesn't matter?????????? Yes it does! but your opinion doesn't if you are too damn lazy to get involved other than just verbally.

Thanks for listening!!!

[bfoust]

Yay, Mrs. Heinz-Kerry is coming to town, maybe if you Kerry lovers are good she'll tell you all to "Shove it"

hahaha.

[stonekrow]

That sounds good to me, then maybe all you Cheney lovers can get told to "Go fuck yourself" by Mr Cheney. I think I'd rather be told to "Shove it"