Peter C's will rip you off! (I DONT THINK SO !!!!)

[BigJohn]

Peter C's will rip you off! Thats A laugh, I have been here for 15 years trying to give you guys a place to play and yes back in the day I was much more free with the pay, But If I'm the bad guy here then WHY can't any of you big mouth cry babys get a job at the 4ds I'll tell you why because they book band that draw a crowd, they wouldn't offer you the door because when they book VS: THE EARTH (Nevermoure) they know the door money will out way the thousand or fifteen hundred they will pay them these bands play music that the main stream wants to here. maybe thats what I should do, only book 80,s cover bands it's Funny that when HAIR FOCE ONE or THE MAURADERS or THE GRIMM play here they get the same deal you do and they don't bitch because they play music that fans want to hear and then follow them and pay cover charge to see them, You guy should try that for a change.
PS. I can't tell you how many time I've given a band a job when know one else would like (nevermoure) and then if by some stroke of luck you guys do become popular the the masses and a place like the 4d's come knocking you drop Peter C's from. your schedule

[FiddlePicker]

PS. I can't tell you how many time I've given a band a job when know one else would like (nevermoure) and then if by some stroke of luck you guys do become popular the the masses and a place like the 4d's come knocking you drop Peter C's from. your schedule

Isn't that a blessing in disguise? I cant remember how many bands this is adding up to now John. The only good thing about your place is you do give most musicians a chance. The rest of us unchosen people are left with our thumbs up our ass. So we gotta take a fk over until it's cool to be there with you
Nothing against the grimm or nevermoure...but how long did it take for you to get your feet off the ground with them and get treated fairly?

[Imgrimm01]

I am NOT going to be dragged into the middle of an argument her BUT what I am going to say is this , The Grimm are who and what we are because we worked our asses off for nearly 8 years now we have risen above many bad situations , Creative Tension, Clubs who don't like original music, back biting, financial issues and many many more BUT we were / are determined and will not give up because playing music is what we LOVE to do .. and here is the big one ANYWHERE ... ANYTIME... We have traveled to Philly to do a 20 min set UNPAID !! $$ is cool my friends but it's not why were in the game, If it were we would still play Peter C's though because we make good money there, the key is promote yourself whatever it takes WHATEVER IT TAKES ! John is a friend of mine but our deal there is the same as everyone else's I assure you. THE GRIMM LOVES Peter C's and will continue to play there as long as John will have us...

[Skate Toad]

I just want to make a few points. Learn about the policies where you play. If you aren't sure ask,ask,and ask again. And if you are afraid of getting screwed even after that get it in writting. I'm not taking sides because both sides have valid points. I know that i have learned a few lessons over the years from just about every club in this town(good and bad!). And the main thing i learned was, find out everything and learn from those times when you do get screwed. I know at this point i don't do a show unless i know the details inside and out and i can make sure i and my fellow bandmates won't get a raw deal(doesn't mean that it won't still happen) I also try to work with the club owners. Some appreciate it some don't. And if some one asks me privately about a club i will give them freely the good,the bad, and the ugly about that club. But i'll make it known that it's just the facts from my personal experience and they can decide on their own. With that info then they can watch out for themselves.
So bashing places never works (hell i'm guilty too) but i learned it doesn't change anything. The way to do it is go else where or go and take it up and settle mono a mono.
My few cents for what it's worth
Todd
ps. The rock page is a great tool to learn about many diff. things use it!

[WitchChic]

OK I probably have no right to post in this topic and if you want to critisize me for my opinion go head I can handle it

Anyways I have worked for Big John, Aldo and Claudio and let me say this the deals are pretty much the same everywhere...And I have seen bands love and hate the places I have worked,some feel they get screwed and some dont....But they all pretty much run their clubs the same...I know that you have a better chance with Big John than you do anywhere else, I also feel that its not a good bridge to burn...John will give you a shot not based on the money you bring into the club...And dont get me wrong I am not downing any of these places because all of them were kind enough to give me a job when I needed it...And I do have my favorite places to hang, but as John says I will follow bands as well I have my favorites and I dont care where they play,this is where you need to start, advertise even if the bar does not and tell everyone to be there ppl will start showing and you will be like Vs the Earth but in the heavy scene...Im not trying to be rude to anyone and Im not in a band just a lil bar waitress/bartender but I think bashing John isnt the way to go, all clubs and all bands have their problems and some good some bad and not every band has the same exspeience at the same place...Also another thing as a fan, if I dont know who the band is, there is a good chance that I wont go, if I dont have the money to get in or to drink or a sitter, I wont go, now if its a band I love ,like The Grimm, HF1, Skell or Deviance I will find a way to get there, but a band Ive never heard of I wont...Not because I am being rude but honestly I cant afford it...Many of my friends do the same thing...Use this page for getting your band known not bashing someone who gave you a chance wether it turned out good or bad...And I really hope I didnt offend anyone, just wanted to share my thoughts.....

Always MEEEEEEEEEchell

[DMFJ03]

Maybe so many people wouldn't complain about paying for the use of the PA, if the PA wasn't older than the building.

Just a thought.

[redawg]

Please understand John that I'm not talking bad towards you or about you. I have played in your club countless times especially with Stix and Stones. I love your bar and very much miss playing there (I miss you Jody, my little freakette). Some of the best gigs of my entire life were in your club. I'd like to get a better understanding of why your pa situation is the way it is. Your club is the only club I have ever heard of that charges bands for pa and soundman. I mix at the Castle Pub every Saturday. I've been mixing there at least 5 days a month for the last couple of years. The Castle does not charge any of the bands for use of the in house system although all bands who play here had to drop their prices a little. The Castle pays me a hundred dollars a night to run sound, not the band. I have been playing in clubs for almost 13 years and all the clubs I have ever played in have done this the same way. I have only seen your pa system once. I only know what I have heard about your system. I just don't understand why your sound system policy is the way it is. I am not even saying it's wrong. If you are gonna have an in house system for bands, compressors and gates are a need, not a want, to get any kind of decent drum sounds. You can get a quad gate for $120. and a quad compressor for the same price. Just some humble thoughts from me.

[redawg]

I've been thinking about this for the last hour or so and came up with these thoughts. Bands, please remember that Peter C's will give almost any band a chance to play when other Altoona clubs won't. Having an in house system is a huge expense. It constantly needs work done to it and money put into it. I haven't been to Peter C's in a long time and I don't know how well any of you bands draw there. We should all realize that John needs to get the money for the up keep on the system somewhere. It's almost a full time job for me to keep up with the system at the Castle. John, I've heard all kinds of mixed things about your system. My suggestion to ANY club is if you are gonna go with in house, do it right or don't do it. Have enough mics (I'm totally covered with 7 SM57's and 7 SM58's and a kick ass bass drum mic in any situation), have all the compressors and gates needed, have enough mic stands, have enough monitors and amps. That all leads back to the money thing. I have mic cables go bad almost every week. Crossovers on monitor speakers get fucked up from people stepping on the cables going into them. The system will always need to be maintained and have money put into it. For John to pay all that money out of his pocket could get kind of rough if he isn't making it at the bar when bands play.

[bfoust]

because when they book VS: THE EARTH (Nevermoure) they know the door money will out way the thousand or fifteen hundred they will pay them these bands play music that the main stream wants to here. maybe thats what I should do, only book 80,s cover bands

Uh, they're not a cover band. They play covers AND have cds of original music. Also, they play covers from 80s, 90s, and today.

[bfoust]

Oh and you forgot City Limits, they sure do book only those 80 cover bands..

*rolls eyes*

[BigJohn]

Uh, they're not a cover band. They play covers AND have cds of original music. Also, they play covers from 80s, 90s, and today.

When I gave them thier first job they were a cover band !!! And Whats the difference betwwen being a cover band or just coping one !!!

[Victor Synn]

Oh and you forgot City Limits, they sure do book only those 80 cover bands..

*rolls eyes*

I really hope that wasn't a bust....

[BigJohn]

Victor Synn I Love you guys, you put on a great show, you play music everyone loves, and you bring a crowd with you whats not to LOVE !!!
You need to teach some of these other guys how it's done !!!

[Victor Synn]

Victor Synn I Love you guys, you put on a great show, you play music everyone loves, and you bring a crowd with you whats not to LOVE !!!
You need to teach some of these other guys how it's done !!!

Well, I'm not going to bust anyone's music John. I respect everyone in the scene for doing what they do week in and week out. That's why I try to get out and see a lot of different bands whenever we have a day or two off. I really don't see a reasonable end to the argument that's been put up here. The only thing I would tell any band is to either play a club or don't. Make your own decision, but be fully aware that there may be consequences in burning bridges.

[grimmbass]

Hey all...coming in a bit late on this one.

Big John gave The Grimm a chance when nobody would touch us.
He listens to our CDs.
He knows our songs.
He maintains the only real "underground" club in the entire Altoona area.
He continues to support bands even if they fail to draw a crowd.

You cannot expect a bar owner to cough up massive amounts of cash if you are not drawing a crowd. If you choose to go outside the mainstream and play original or unusual music in central PA, you will probably not wind up playing to capacity crowds. You will not be rolling in cash.

Bands must accept the consequences that come with their choices. We in the Grimm have no delusions about getting rich in Altoona.

But thank God that Big John still gives us a place where we can make some noise:)

Peter C's crew: Da Grimm loves you all!

Kent, Bass, The Grimm

[FatVin]

Redawg Wrote:

Your club is the only club I have ever heard of that charges bands for pa and soundman.

Try takin it on the road for a while, it's not that uncommon a thing. Some places We've played, you work for the door, minus the soundman's fee so if you make, say, $255 at the door and the soundman's fee is $250, then $5 is what ya get and that could be in Missouri someplace where the band plays from 9:30 to 2:30.

Big John isn't Santa Claus but he certainly isn't Satan, I've bitched and moaned about the way John does business as much as anybody but it took getting out on the road to see what's really out there.

But to be fair, $50 a night for the PA, how long has that PA been in there? at least 3 years that I can remember, 52 weekends a year. . .hmm, even if it's only been there 2 years, I think the system has probably paid for itself and then some.

That being said, $100 for a PA and soundman is still pretty cheap.

my point here is that, the deal is, what it is, you know it, going in and if you don't you should. and there are lots of worse things out there than the deal at Peter C's

Grow up

[tonefight]

If you have bands not drawing maybe you need to work to get some better in and keep them happy, I've never seen a bar have as much trouble as you filling a schedule.

I still say that if you want your business to improve you need to have a steady flow of quality bands in every entertainment night. I really don't think alot of common people check band schedules etc. I think alot of people show up to some of these clubs out of habit.......... meaning : they know if they go over to this club they will hear a quality band and have a good time........ If they go over to this other club they don't know what to expect so they don't go there.

Playing for the door isn't bad but........ I too think the sound should be a bonus of playing a club, it sounds like its old and payed for already so give it up. There are places out there paying XXX plus the door but your club is the door - XXX. Maybe if the Pa was included it would turn things to the door +

And Yes I realize I would be much further ahead in life if I could keep my mouth shut but I've never been able to control that. And of course I'm not familiar with the Altoona area so this is an opinion based on info given here.

[BigJohn]

Tone - I do pay $100.00 and the door and then charge back $50 for the pa. and $50 for the sound guy and I allow bands to bring thier own sound guy so they can save $50 and thier own door guy so the door count is secure. Nobody pays anything out of pocket!!! I have had bands make up to $1400 with this deal.

[tonefight]

OK, the way it was descibed by others sounded different, sorry my misconception. So if you bring a soundman you make $50 plus the door and don't have to worry about hauling in gear? That sounds much better than the door - $100 dollars wich is what I was under the impression of.

I apologize that was my misconception there

[ToonaRockGuy]

I really haven't commented on any of the Peter C's threads that come up, since I just find it better to keep my mouth closed.

I will say this though. Everyone knows that when I play, I do it not just for the love of being onstage, I'm also in it for the money. If you want to get paid, bring a crowd. It's not going to happen overnight for ANYONE. The Grimm is the perfect example. Bobby, Kent and the boys have worked their a$$es off over the years, sticking to their guns and promoting the sh*t out of themselves. And they are now getting great crowds.

I've played in this town on and off for 10 years, and I've played for packed houses, and crickets too. But the more you put into your effort, the more $$$ you'll reap. But the effort is not just musical. You could have the tightest, most kickass band in existance. But if you don't promote yourselves and your show, you won't draw dick.

Before I go on, here's the disclaimer: The following is directed to nobody in particular, instead to all bands and all club owners.

So here's my advice to bands:

1. PROMOTE, PROMOTE, PROMOTE.

2. Know what the financial arrangement is going in.

3. Be professional. Don't take advantage of the perks that are offered. Enjoy a few cold ones onstage, sure. Don't kill 4 or 5 pitchers a night.

4. When you are promoting yourself, you are also promoting the nightspots you are playing at. Remember that.

5. Don't badmouth a bad experience, learn from it. This is a small town, and everybody knows everybody, and word gets out real fast. Bad word of mouth can kill a band in an instant.

Here's my advice to owners.
1. Promote, promote, PROMOTE. It's a 2 way street. Bands are there to make their money, but also to help you move product. You can help by promoting your place, and your band lineup.

2. Be up-front about the financial arrangement going in. Seriously consider some sort of information sheet (NOT a contract). It's nice for a band to have some sort of written information about what to expect coming into the gig.

3. Stay true to your word. If you are booking for a flat fee, don't try to back out of it, even if you take a loss. You'll lose cred with the musicians in the area. If you're booking for small fee + the door, let them know. Don't make up a story about taking back the small fee.

Here's the bottom line on Peter C's.
-If you are booked, you pay $50 for PA, $50 for the soundman . Save $50 bucks and bring your own sound guy.
-Big John will give you a shot. And even if you had a bad experience, remember...he gave you a shot to play.

Just my .02.

[stonekrow]

I really don't see anything that far out of line that John does when it comes to paying bands. I've been in the scene for 10 years now and have seen a lot worse actually, the majority of places that my bands have played take money for the sound. My only gripe with you John is this: When I was with Deviance, and we we're doing really well at the time drawing pretty big crowds and leaving nobody unsatisfied with our live shows, did you not even consider returning one of my phone calls? With no exaggeration here I called at least 10 times over a three week period, not because I was pestering, but each time I called I got "You just missed him, try calling back later" or, "He said to call back on this day" or "He'll call you right back, he's busy" One time it was "Hang on a minute"..(hand cupping phone, talking going on in background) no, he's not here right now" well that was the last straw for me, I don't chase club owners around because the bands Im in are NOT on trial and I need not beg. I too run a business and ALWAYS return phone calls whether Im interested in talking to that person or not, it's common courtesy and professionalism. As I stated in another post, you (John) E-mailed me about Stone Krow playing there, but because of past "dealings" Im not interested, in all seriousness though I do appreciate the offer but no thanks. Good luck in patching things up with these bands, hope it works out for all parties involved.

[redawg]

Why tell a band they are getting 100 plus the door and tell them you are gonna charge $50. back for use of the pa? Why not tell the band they are playing for just the door? It looks to me like it is gonna pretty much work out that way anyway, unless they find a soundman that will come mix them for free. I think the way you first describe the money situation to bands leaves too much room for misunderstanding. When Stix and Stones played there, we brought our own sound. If I remember right, we were paid $75. plus the door. Angelo Pompa usually gave us a really good rate. We had some bad nights and we had some awsome nights. We were totally happy playing for the door. Always made decent cash there. Damn, I miss those crazy nights at breakfast and the food fights.


I'm editing this instead of double posting. John, we were never able to find a person who would come work the door for us for free. It's tough finding someone who will even do it at all. If bands bring their own door guy, do you expect one of our friends to be carding people? That is a question we got asked alot. I think we shoud give John some credit for being man enough to come on this site and hash this out with us. How many other club owners are on here interacting directly with us bands like this, getting it all out in the open?

[songsmith]

I rent a few small PA systems out in my day job. Here's what you get:

Powered mixer, 6 channel minimum inputs. Wattage varies on which one you get (my choice, depending on how much lead time you give me...first come first served for the better gear).
Two speakers... 15'' or 12", you pick, based on what you're using to haul, and how much manpower you have helping you set up.
Speaker stands for above.
One handheld microphone, with boom stand. I usually send out Sennheisers with a switch on the mic, because they're cheap and sound good. (People are notoriously hard on rented sound, like they are with rental cars)
All necessary cabling, including AC.

That's it. You pickup, and if you're not there by 4:30pm, you're probably boned. (Hey I have gigs to be at, too!)

Price: $100.00 US, plus applicable sales taxes. Prefer Visa Mastercard or American Express, or you may pay a big honkin' CASH deposit on the gear. Oh yeah... you pick up, did I mention that? It's another hundred bucks a day if you don't get it back ontime... I may let it slide, if you're a regular customer, but mostly rules are rules, you signed the rental agreement. BTW, a tech bills at $30 per hour minimum, much more than that if you want Zilly (he's THE man!), and billing starts at load-in, and goes to end of load-out.

This pricing is about one third of the national average rental fee for such a rig. Not one third off, one third OF. It's Altoona, after all, everything's cheaper here. It should be noted that I mainly service the business community, and that competition is furious, so I have to hustle to keep the systems busy, and thankfully they stay busy.

So you see, PA systems cost money. At Pete's, no matter how old the system may be, you get more than I'd give you, and I'm priced low by national standards, like most soundmen around here. When guys like Lone Wolf supply a PA for free for a benefit, they're giving A HELL OF A LOT, because even they charged their full normal price, it'd be a kickass bargain.

So there's my $.02 and change. Everything's relative. Peace.----->JMS

[Skate Toad]

Hey i was just curious. There is alot of 2 cents being given on the rockpage. Who collects all that. I bet ron is loaded. Just a dumb thought sorry.

[songsmith]

(Laughing like a fool!) You rule, Toad! Why can't I think of stuff like that?------>JMS