Support your canidate!!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Sep 05, 2004

1.6% increase in economic growth since Bush took office, the slowest rate of increase over an equivalent period for any administration in 50 years.

By the end of 2001, any economic policy that didn't immediately pump massive amounts of capital into the free market would have resulted in a severe recession or depression and we'd still be there. By the time the Clinton recession and associated equity market crash was over, more than $6 trillion in investment capital was wiped out. Thats enough money to make those 2.9 million unemployed people millionaires twice over. Its sure as hell what happened to the jobs. Any politician that tells you they will "create jobs" (laughing uncontrollably) is completely full of shit. I don't care what party they are from.

OOPS! Did I write "Clinton recession"? Why, yes, I did. Look at the timeline. A few days after Bush had his 1st full cabinet meeting, we were already in recession and it was up to him to clean up the mess that was handed to him. Bush's economic policy didn't kick in until 2002. Generally, it takes months or even years for government policy to have an effect on the economy (excluding FED policy). Fortunately for us, Mr. Bush's unprecedented release of capital into the economy via tax cuts had an immediate effect that staved off a much deeper recession.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Sep 07, 2004

stonekrow wrote:Bush's tax cuts overwhelmingly favor the wealthy. The top 1% will save more than $30,000 per year while 31% save nothing at all. Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and AFL/CIO.

These people say the rich are still getting soaked. I wonder if that's really fair:

http://www.rosenblog.com/2004/08/13/cbo ... oaked.html

The nation faces a record $500 billion deficit. The biggest cause of the deficit is Bush's tax cuts. Source: www.govexec.com.

These people say differently:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/em913.cfm

The Bush Administration is systematically turning back 30 years of environmental progress. Source: Sierra Club.

Not so!

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org

President Bush is under-funding education with the smallest percentage increase in funding in eight years!

Please note the word INCREASE. Throwing money at a problem does not necessarily correct a problem. It does, however, makes it a more expensive problem. Source: ME

oops, ran out of time this session...more to come.

For every liberal source, their is another source that disputes it.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Tuesday Sep 07, 2004

You know, I try to never jump into these discussions, as I've never been one to discuss my politics with anyone...but, I just want to kind of echo the theme of what this thread is SUPPOSED to be....

GO FREAKING VOTE.

I personally don't give a rat's ass if you vote Bush or Kerry, or even Nader for that matter. Just vote, even if it's just for the lesser of 2 idiots. It's your RIGHT to vote, and if you don't vote, don't go bitching about the way the country is run. Period.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday Sep 07, 2004

Check this out!! I hope these people do show up at the polls!

http://cdn.digitalcity.com/dailypulse/kerbushpoll0907

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Wednesday Sep 08, 2004

You know what, John Kerry talked about the soldiers killed in Iraq fighting terrorism...yet he once said Iraq has no connections to terrorism...hmmm

He also critisizes the 200 billion spent in Iraq and talks about the defecit, then he talks about how he would spend the money in the US. Now how is that going to decrease the defecit? All he would do is distribute the money differently. I remember when Bush signed the Medicare bill and the Dems were all over him for not spending enough....I don't get it, the dems say bush isn't spending enough on education either, while he has given a 49% increase in education spending. I would also like to know how Kerry will lower the defecit by prescription drug programs and healthcare for all children programs? Raise taxes, oh yea, I forgot! Like taxing the weathy more than they are already taxed, they pay most of the damn taxes in this country anyway.

Either way, wasteful spending is bad. I don't agree with how GWB has spent, but when you are attacked at home and go to war, it's expensive...the first ever defecit in the country was in the revolutionary war. Wars cost money and we didn't ask to be attacked.

I'd also like to know how Kerry will do the things he says...he always has an idea, but never says how he can get it done. Oh yea...let's fight a more "sensitive" war on terror...please. I say we blow the fuckers off the face of the planet. We have a lot of weapons, lets use 'em!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

People, evolve past your fucking second circuit dominance features.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

In all seriousness, you can squabble all you want...Neither candidate gives a shit abot you, me, or anyonoe on here....It doesn't matter who wins, neither one will do anything but make themselves more money...We're all fucked, face it, there's the truth, no matter who wins...

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

We're all fucked, face it, there's the truth, no matter who wins...

Does the federal government really have that much effect on our day to day lives? I don't think so. No matter who wins, I don't intend to be fucked...at least not by them. The worst they can do is raise my taxes and I'll just find a way around it.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

Punkinhead wrote:In all seriousness, you can squabble all you want...Neither candidate gives a shit abot you, me, or anyonoe on here....It doesn't matter who wins, neither one will do anything but make themselves more money...We're all fucked, face it, there's the truth, no matter who wins...

That may be true to a certain extent, but I for one will be voting for the guy who has the balls to fight terriorism (not hide behind the UN), supports Pro-Life (not murdering our unborn), is for tax cuts (enough said) and is not going to try to take my handgun from me.

GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!!GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!!GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!! GO BUSH!!!!!

(sorry, that was for Bobby Lee!!)

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

I'll be voting for the guy who does fight terrorism (not bomb countries with no tangible evidence of WMDs while kissing the ass of real terrorist. Then have all of his apologists smooth it over with a euphemism of being a "liberation campaign); who doesn't give nobid contracts after bombing said country; who doesn't fuck our children with No Child Left Behind; who does have a model that ensures both fiscal respsonability and socialized health care; who doesn't piss on every environmental concern; who doesn't give in to special interests; and ran one of the best damn campaigns I've ever seen. Oh wait, that's Howard Dean, the who should have won the primaries, but lost due to everyone pussing out. Oh well, I guess I don't blame the Dems for not electing him - having an mind of at least average intelligence scares people.

(sorry for all the angry posts, I just read these political threads and can't believe the ignorance in them)

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

bassist_25 wrote:I'll be voting for the guy who does fight terrorism (not bomb countries with no tangible evidence of WMDs while kissing the ass of real terrorist. Then have all of his apologists smooth it over with a euphemism of being a "liberation campaign); who doesn't give nobid contracts after bombing said country; who doesn't fuck our children with No Child Left Behind; who does have a model that ensures both fiscal respsonability and socialized health care; who doesn't piss on every environmental concern; who doesn't give in to special interests; and ran one of the best damn campaigns I've ever seen. Oh wait, that's Howard Dean, the who should have won the primaries, but lost due to everyone pussing out. Oh well, I guess I don't blame the Dems for not electing him - having an mind of at least average intelligence scares people.

(sorry for all the angry posts, I just read these political threads and can't believe the ignorance in them)

Perspective is a funny thing, because I see ignorance in your posts as well. But, I know that just as you are never going to change my mind, I won't be able to change yours either!

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

Punkinhead wrote:In all seriousness, you can squabble all you want...Neither candidate gives a shit abot you, me, or anyonoe on here....It doesn't matter who wins, neither one will do anything but make themselves more money...We're all fucked, face it, there's the truth, no matter who wins...

AMEN.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

I'm not here to change anybody's mind; most people are too dogmatic of their beliefs to change. Besides, most people respond to the peripheral route of persuasion, while I much rather take the central route of persuasion. I've changed ideological views many of times. Since I see concepts as independent of any ego attachments, it stands that what is believed should be practical.

I know I always end these political threads with a bitch-session. Often times I go into them with a naive optimism. "Cool, a political thread," I think, "maybe we'll have a disucussion about how to better our foreign policy, or maybe we'll talk about how John Rawls version of libertarianism differs from Robert Nozick's, or how Marxism could never realistically thrive in a large society due to the fact that massproducing to meet public demand will ultimatley drive down labour-value" But it always turn out to be an emotion based free-for-all filled with blind patriotism, ad hominem grunts, and insult to logic.

My comment was open-ended, which means that it also went for many of the RP liberals. I've stated numerous times that while I don't agree with Lonewolf on many points, I always respect his view, because he basis his points on a cogent argument. I'm sorry, the "Bush rules, because he fights terrorism, and Kerry sucks because he's a wussy liberal, and wussy liberls suck" argument doesn't do anything for me. I apologize if I seem arrogant, but I've had it with this shit. I still stand by my assement that Bush is terrible president, and his record stands to show. No Bush supporter has presented a persuasive argument on why I should believe otherwise. I'm also not a Kerry supporter. Personally, I would love to see each presidential race be between 5 different candidates instead of two parties throwing a scrap to Perot/Nader/whoever, but I digress.

(I know, I should know better than to post in a political thread at RP.

)

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

bassist_25 wrote: I've changed ideological views many of times. Since I see concepts as independent of any ego attachments, it stands that what is believed should be practical.

Ya know what Paul, seriously, I've said it before and I will say it again - YOU are too damn smart for your own good!!!! And I seriously mean that!!!!!

I know how I feel when I read what you post, but I really can't put it into proper words like you do. So, usually, I just let it go.

Changing your views (like you stated, and is shown in the quote above), well, that to me says that you are not really stable in your beliefs yet. And, that, I do understand - because I was once there. But now that I am much older (getting to fuckin old by the minute) - I realize that I have been stable with my beliefs for well over a decade and I really doubt that much will change with that.

As far as having more diversity on the ballot - DAMN STRAIGHT!!! I believe the two party system to be something of the past. Although, like you mentioned in previous threads - a lot of the "outside party" voting will just result in votes being taken away from either Rep or Dem instead of actually giving strength to those outside parties - it would still be a move to a better future for our government. But, try to tell that to those that already dictate the way it is in our legistlatvie process (i.e., The ever famous caucus).

Anyway, as always, never hard feelings about our disagreements - and I know that. I jjust wish I could put into words some of the feelings I have when I read your posts. (especially after having a bunch of cold ones - like tonight!!)

Hey, I disagree with many things Bush has done - but it is nothing like the fear I have of Kerry!!! I know there are other (better) options out there - but I would just be wasting my vote. And, like I said before - I do believe in a lot of the things that Bush represents - and one of them is definately the fight on terriorism!!!!!!!

Hell - I don't have a clue who "Robert Nozick" is - maybe I should - but I don't!! Sorry!! Ya know what is funny?? A girl at work this week ask a few of us (on smoke break) who we were talking about because she never heard of John Kerry!!!!

Urbs (for Bush)

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Thursday Sep 09, 2004

mad hatter wrote:Bush fucked over WAY more people then he helped, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of good American people when I say start packing Georgy boy, we don't need you and we don't want you.

Oh yeah, and I just wanted to complement the Mad Hatter for his post in this thread. I am always so inspired by his words of wisdom when his hatred for bush materializes.

(It is guys like him that make me glad he is is on Kerry's side and not GWB's!!!!!!!)

bfoust · Post by **bfoust** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

mad hatter wrote:Bush fucked over WAY more people then he helped, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of good American people when I say start packing Georgy boy, we don't need you and we don't want you.

Bush 47.5%
Kerry 46.8%

Doesn't look like a majority to me.

(src http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Preside ... g_Poll.htm)

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

Bush 52%
Kerry 45%

Me neither, and don't forget, Gallup is the world's polling company.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=12922

mad hatter · Post by **mad hatter** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

I don't come to RP that often and, I don't come here to inspire anyone with words of wisdom, a select few of you already seem to think you know it all. I'm baffled that the same group of you are still arguing over the same shit, I just chimed in to let you all know that my mind hasn't changed by all your broken-record, right-winged idiocy. And the polls really don't mean a thing to me, I never believe the polls. Have a good day.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

byndrsn wrote:
Changing your views (like you stated, and is shown in the quote above), well, that to me says that you are not really stable in your beliefs yet. And, that, I do understand - because I was once there. But now that I am much older (getting to fuckin old by the minute) - I realize that I have been stable with my beliefs for well over a decade and I really doubt that much will change with that.

Tom, it's interesting that you say that, because that's not how I look at it. I see it as letting myself open to change so I can be dynamic in my beliefs when conflicting evidence points otherwise. I could accept something as truth/maxim/believable for a long period of time, but if something points to a conclusion that shows that as a fallacy, it would be foolish of me to keep accepting that belief. I really don't see myself becoming dogmatic in any kind of belief since what matters is what's practical at that given time of life. (Man, we're starting to get into some William James type of stuff here) Since all of this stuff such as politics, philosophy, ect. is subjective, it's really hard to claim anything a true belief.

And don't worry, no offense was taken.

We rocked the Gallitzin IMS one too many times for that.

As I said before, I know I can be pretty abrasive about certain things - I have an INTJ personality, so that makes me pretty candid about many things; I really don't care about social rituals for the sake of social rituals. I should employ the emoticons more often.

And Robert Nozick was one of the people whom were instrumental in the creation of libertarianism.

And there's nothing wrong with having a few cold ones.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

bassist_25 wrote: And don't worry, no offense was taken. We rocked the Gallitzin IMS one too many times for that. As I said before, I know I can be pretty abrasive about certain things - I have an INTJ personality, so that makes me pretty candid about many things; I really don't care about social rituals for the sake of social rituals. I should employ the emoticons more often.
.

Good I think we all need to throw out the term "PC" and everything that goes along with it!! I would much rather get down to it with you or anyone else rather than wondering what a person is truly thinking.

Oh, and Mad Hatter - fairly quick response from someone who doesn't get on here often!!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

No Bush supporter has presented a persuasive argument on why I should believe otherwise.

Dump that psych and start taking econ. Expecially macro. Take a close look at the tech "bubble", the faux jobs it "created" and the drain on liquidity when it finally burst in spring, 2000. The numbers are mind-boggling. After you look at the numbers, ask yourself: why in hell didn't we go into an economic depression?

While the Nasdaq composite was losing 80% of its value, I had already gone 90% cash and the other 10% went up 450% in 2000. I don't follow economic trends just to debate politics on a message board.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

lonewolf wrote:Dump that psych and start taking econ.

Yeah, I definately want to take some economics. I'm not sure if that's a ged ed. or not.

Speaking of though - that is one thing Bush did that I like; he cut the capital gains tax. Personally, I would love to see the whole damn thing abolished.

mad hatter · Post by **mad hatter** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

I'm sorry, Byndrsn, I should have stated myself a little more clearly. I do check in every-so-often if I had just recently left a post. I certainly don't spend as much time here as you do. It seems to me that you just like to undermine peoples' intelligence if they have a different political view than you. A LOT. Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Friday Sep 10, 2004

mad hatter wrote:I'm sorry, Byndrsn, I should have stated myself a little more clearly. I do check in every-so-often if I had just recently left a post. I certainly don't spend as much time here as you do. It seems to me that you just like to undermine peoples' intelligence if they have a different political view than you. A LOT. Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

Oh, I see, it's the whole John Kerry mindset showing now - backtracking on what you said before. I get it. It's cool.

And, as for what I do with my time - what business is that of yours?

If I come down on you because everytime you post - you basically just insult people, but never in a constructive way - don't get all defensive. I remember: you were the one that started calling Bush supporters "fucking morons" on a similar post. Your insults don't hurt me and, like I said before, I am just glad that you are not on Bush's side!!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Saturday Sep 11, 2004

Speaking of though - that is one thing Bush did that I like; he cut the capital gains tax. Personally, I would love to see the whole damn thing abolished.

You are further along than I had expected. The passing of the XVI amendment was dubious at best and it didn't say anything about profit from investment. I'm not so sure that capital gains tax is even constitutional. Of course, like the firearms act of 1934, nobody questions it anymore because it is just "there".

Since there was no air conditioning in the early 1800's, the house and senate relied on ice to cool congress during the summer. A family in D.C. was contracted to deliver the ice every day during the summer. For generations, this family continued to deliver ice to the capitol. In the early '50s, air conditioning was installed in the capitol building, but the ice was still delivered. From 1954 thru 1994, the house of representatives was continuously controlled by the democrat party. After the "republican revolution" in 1994, the new controlling party was amazed when the ice truck came up to deliver the traditional ice...

That contract didn't last 5 more minutes. I wonder just how much more waste there is...remember the helium reserve to close the helium "gap" in case of dirigible warfare set up in the 20's? It was still in effect until congress passed the U.S. Federal Helium Reserve and the Helium Privatization Act in 1996. Yes, in 1996, we were still fully prepared to take on all blimps in all out war. I can tell you that Bill Clinton did NOT introduce that bill either. As a matter of fact, Bill Clinton never introduced a significant bill that ever got passed, but I'll bet he's a lot of fun at parties.