Bands With Only One Original Member

[ToonaRockGuy]

Is it still that band? IE Axl Rose's version of GNR contains only himself. Does that constitute GNR? Discuss in general.

[Redsfury]

actually, he still has dizzy reed (keyboard/piano) who has been with gnr since after appetite. some of the stuff on the new album really lets his playing shine. especially a song called "street of dreams" which features a piano intro which for good reason harkens back to november rain. (because its the same guy)

but anyway i think a different band name would have been a better choice. but i wont hold that against them. he used the name to drum up publicity for an album.

[Big Jim]

[Jim Price]

I think it depends on who the one original member is, and that person's impact on the band's essence and sound. Axl Rose was arguably always the centerpiece of Guns N'Roses, and the element of that group that most people think of when the band's name is mentioned. So it's easier to accept Axl's current version of Guns N'Roses as legit, since he is still at the center of it.

On a local scale, I'd think of The Hurricanes in a similar way; Felix is the founder and focal point, and remained the constant through several inceptions of the band over the years. Popular Harrisburg-based band Rise Phoenix Rise just changed their name to Monster Party after several personnel changes in the past year, particularly with lead vocals.

On the other hand, I remember a version of Molly Hatchet putting out an album a few years ago, and the earliest remaining member was a second- or third-generation guitar player. This version of the group had lost too much of the original essence of what Molly Hatchet was, and for me wasn't believable as Molly Hatchet.

Rolling Stone just did an article in one of their most recent issues about alternate versions of the same band on tour, and which version fans should choose. They cited the two L.A. Guns, the two versions of Asia, the Guess Who vs. Bachman-Cummings and more. In each case, they tended to side with the version containing more original or pivotal members.

I guess for me, the bottom line is that if the remaining original member is the defining feature of that group's sound, I can accept that member's version of the group. But if attrition drastically changes the identity and dynamic of the group's sound over time, then the group's name probably should change.

[songsmith]

It could be worse. I once worked with The Boxtops ("... Lonely days are gone, I'm-a goin' home, My baby...wrote me a letter...") I sat enthralled as the lead singer regaled a bunch of us with tales from the past, including recording Whiter Shade of Pale as Procol Harum recorded the same song at the same time in a different room of the same studio. I saw him on 20/20 a year or so later... that dude was NEVER in any incarnation of the original group, and simply bought the rights to the name from a management company. He was lying on every count. What a piece of sh*t.--->JMS

[moxham123]

Speaking of The Box Tops

http://www.boxtops.com/

BOX TOPS REFORM

Stranger things have happened but Alex Chilton and the four other original founding members of The Box Tops have reunited and concert halls in the States will soon be filled with classic hits like "The Letter" and "Cry Like a Baby". In addition to its upcoming tour, The Box Tops have just completed a new album. The reunited late '60s band is unusual in that all the original members are alive and involved in the new album and tour."

These guys were all in their late teens and early 20's when they had a string of hit songs.

1967 The Letter / Happy Times
Neon Rainbow / Everything I Am
1968 Cry Like A Baby / The Door You Closed To Me
Choo Choo Train / Fields Of Clover
I Met Her In Church / People Gonna Talk
1969 Sweet Cream Ladies, Forward March / I See Only Sunshine
I Shall Be Released / I Must Be The Devil
Soul Deep / (The) Happy Song
Turn On A Dream / Together
1970 You Keep Tightening Up On Me / Come On Honey
Let Me Go / Got To Hold On To You
King's Highway / Since I've Been Gone

[witchhunt]

I once worked with The Boxtops

Me, too. I used to eat all the cereal I could and save those tops. Then the big day would come when I finally had enough and I would send them and the "official" order form away to Battlecreek Mich. Ah, the good life....





Sorry.

[bassist_25]

I remember being a senior in high school and my father and I went and saw The Diamonds in Philipsburg one evening. I don't think any of the members were original. Hell, one of the members still had all of the natural color of his hair.

The leader of the group would talk in the third person, which was strange, e.g., "This song was the Diamonds second Top Ten hit."

[metalchurch]

I agree with JP on this.
It depends on the band and what kind of contribution the particular member has/had on the band's image and sound.

Alice Cooper is a perfect example of this, because not many people know the names of the original members, and because of that Alice is able to tour and continue playing without the "critics" having an opinion about it.
Of course the band isn't the same w/out Glen Buxton, but I think Alice's current band does an amazing job playing the old songs with conviction.

Ozzy is another one, especially with his solo work. He has 3 eras of his current "solo" band, none of which feature any of the original members of it's initial incarnation.

(Black Sabbath is a different animal altogether in my opinion.) Black Sabbath has to have either Ozzy/Tony/Geezer/Bill or Dio/Tony/Geezer/Appice to sound "correct" to me.

Skid Row isn't the same without Sebastian
Dokken isn't the same without Lynch. (Pretty close, but not really)

Journey are doing extremely well without Steve Perry, but no one can really replace Perry, although Pineda does an amazing job with all of the pronunciation and nuances of Perry's voice.

I think Tim Owens did a great job replacing ( I should say covering...)Halford, but then again no one can really replace Halford.

Sepultura didn't fare so well w/out Max Cavalera IMO. Not even close to the same band. Hell even when they played their old songs, they sounded like a bad Sepultura cover band.

That's really the worst opinion that a band could get when playing their old songs, or even new songs without a particular band member;
"Sounding like a bad cover band"

I dont really like being opinionated toward a band like that, but most times I like a band for an element of their music and when that changes or disappears, it makes me feel alienated, and therefore I lose interest in that band.
I wont say that I lose respect for them, just interest.

Some say that a vocalist change makes or breaks the band, which makes sense because the vocals are up front and a vital part of the band and hard to replicate.
But the same can be said for guitarists, bassists, and drummers.
Every player has their own voice and sound and when you listen to the 'big picture' and something is missing, most times you can never get that back no matter how hard you try.

There are quite a few singers, guitarists, bassists, and drummers that when you hear a song, you just know who it is.
To me that's the single most important thing that we all strive for: Our own 'voice'.
Some are blessed/talented enough, some simply slip in the cracks.
Those who slip in the cracks are the ones who are "replacable"
If that makes sense to you guys?

Excellent topic for sure.


Somehow this turned into a 2,000 word bassist_25 post! Sorry!

[Jim Price]

As I got to thinking about this further, there are a number of interesting situations you can consider when pondering the original member question.

Consider Kansas. Chief songwriter and guitarist Kerry Livgren split away from the group in 1980, and just a few years ago reunited with one of the early Kansas line-ups before the version that had the superstar success. (Kerry's reunited Kansas is named Proto-Kaw, which translates to 'early Kansas.') But the remainder of the hit-making Kansas line-up still tours as Kansas. Two different spins from the same band family tree, and both are arguably legit.

Consider Yes, first with all the line-up changes they've had over the years. Rick Wakeman (although not a founding member), Jon Anderson and Steve Howe have all exited and returned to the band over the years; all are considered pivotal components of the 'Yes' sound, but the group continued on with varying line-ups in each musician's absence. Then last year, after Anderson took ill and the group initially scrapped their world tour plans, the rest of the band recruited a substitute singer from a Yes cover band to front them on tour. Anderson was peeved, and said straight out, “This is not Yes on tour.”

I also thought about the Poptart Monkeys on the regional level. The band still is playing, but are now based in Florida. None of the founding members are still with the current group; the earliest member still with them is second generation guitarist Chris Kurtz. And there has been talk about a reunion of the original PTM line-up as "Poptart Monkeys Classic," after guitarist Dave Danishefsky fully recovers from his car accident injuries from last year.

So there are a lot of different stories and angles to consider with the "bands with only one original member" question. Good topic!

[moxham123]

Speaking of a few prominent bands along these lines of bands still touring with some members who people think are original members but came along further into the bands. This creates gray areas and a thin line between prominent lineups. Steve Perry was not an original member of Journey. Kevin Cronin was not an original member of REO Sppedwagon. Tommy Shaw was not an original member of Styx. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks were not original members of Fleetwood Mac. Joe Walsh and Timothy B. Schmitt were not original members of Eagles. However, they were key components to the respective groups' success during their careers.

Current groups touring:

The only original members of Journey are Neal Schon and Ross Valory
The only original member of REO Speedwagon is Neal Doughty
The only original member of Styx is James "J. Y." Young (occasionally Chuck Panozzo plays depending on his health)
The only original members of Eagles are Glenn Frey and Don Henley
The only original member of Fleetwood Mac is Mick Fleetwood (although John McVie loaned is name for the band, he did not join until after their first record and tour)
The only original member of Foreigner is Mick Jones

There is a Pennsylvania law called the Truth in Music Bill that Governor Rendell signed a few years ago preventing copycat or scam bands performing under another band name within the state of Pennsylvania. The law states that a band has to either have one remaining original member or have legal rights to use the group name from the original legal entity and still have a member who was a pivotal member of the band. Otherwise, they have to present themselves as a tribute act or cover band.

Here is a synopsis of how the bill works.

The Truth in Music Law is designed to stop unscrupulous concert promoters from deceiving the public with“impostor groups” which have no connection, legal or otherwise, to the authentic groups. Fundamentally, this is a consumer protection bill, as the public pays hard- earned money to see a show and has no idea what it’s even getting. The bill makes it mandatory for a live performance to include at least one recording member of the group who still has the right to use the group name. Otherwise, the act must be billed as a “tribute” or a“salute” so that the public knows what it’s paying for.

An ancillary effect of this bill is to help the authentic artists themselves, who have been struggling for many years to try to stop impostors to no avail. The impostor groups take their jobs, their money, their legacy and their applause. The bill is necessary because existing law has completely failed to work and impostor groups have multiplied. There may be as many as 50 groups of “Coasters” and “Platters” performed nationwide, often at the same time in different venues. The bill shifts the burden to those groups to prove that they actually have rights to the group names. The specific guidelines the bill provides give clarity to venues
as to whom to book, and to the state attorney general’s office as to what constitutes a violation. This is much more efficient and cost-effective than any other way of dealing with this very specialized area."Truth In Music" Has Arrived! The Truth In Music Bill was created to protect the artists from Identity theft and to protect the Consumer from being mis-lead to believe they are seeing the legendary artists that made the hits songs famous, when in fact they are not.

The Truth in Music Law is designed to stop unscrupulous
concert promoters from deceiving the public with “impostor groups”
which have no connection, legal or otherwise, to the authentic groups.
Fundamentally, this is a consumer protection bill, as the public pays hard-earned money to see a show and has no idea what it’s even getting. The bill makes it mandatory for a live performance to include at least one recording member of the group who still has the right to use the group name. Otherwise, the act must be billed as a“tribute” or a “salute” so that the public knows what it’s paying for.

An ancillary effect of this bill is to help the authentic artists themselves,
who have been struggling for many years to try to stop impostors to
no avail. The impostor groups take their jobs, their money,
their legacy and their applause.

The bill is necessary because existing law has completely failed to work and impostor groups have multiplied. There may be as many as 50 groups of “Coasters” and “Platters” performed nationwide, often at the same time in different venues.

The bill shifts the burden to those groups to prove that they actually have rights to the group names. The specific guidelines the bill provides give clarity to venues as to whom to book, and to the state attorney general’s office as to what constitutes a violation. This is much more efficient and cost-effective than any other way of dealing with this very specialized area.

Because of the above, we have passed the
BILL in 26 states including

NY, CA, FL, NV, TN, TX, MO, PA, NJ, MI, MA, CT, IL, IN, WI, VA, VT, ME, CO, MD, MS, MN, RI, SC, ND and DE and now Ohio makes 27 states.

[Naga]

There are a lot of bands that have different effect. I don't have too many examples (and can probably even be called on a lot, as I've somehow lost my grip of random, useless musical knowledge over the years). I suppose that it depends on the band or group. If members transition in and out over periods of time, I can accept that, but if it's like with GnR where all the members fall out at a pretty minimal point, the rights and name shouldn't belong to just one person to carry on.

I feel like Alice Cooper probably shouldn't even be in this list, because while the band started as Alice Cooper, it transitioned to strictly the frontman being Alice Cooper, as Vincent Fernier even changed his legal name to reflect that

I disagree on GnR though. Yes, Axl is the frontman, and his voice, even for all of his douchebaggery, is hard to replace. But then again, the rest of the band, and the unique sound they once held, has been. There are some things that shouldn't be messed with, and that band messed with too many

I feel like when a band switches out so many members before a certain period of time (and even after, depending on the band), that band shouldn't even carry the same identity. There're points where it can be fine though. Some bands can pull it off nicely, but some,... Some shouldn't even try

As Songsmith said, it's a fair bit about pivotal members, but then I feel like even that, sometimes, shouldn't be the case. There are some bands that get famous after member changes, and some that aren't worth seeing after changing out a member or 2. The former, we don't hear about and don't realize they changed members until after their big album, and it happens that we don't know how much has changed since that band's conception. The latter, we grow so used to definitive points of that band, that prove that band with that identity. Trademark sounds make it easy to pick out different things about bands, and tell us "Yeah, we're THAT band". Of course there are some cases where you can find some bands that pull it together any which way (AC/DC, Van Halen), even with a totally altered sound... It's just case by case

[JayBird]

I think the problem with GNR is that Axl waited TOOOOOOOO long to release this new album. Now most hardcore GNR fans don't care about this new lineup. If Axl would have chugged on right after the split of all but Dizzy back in the day, GNR might have been able to keep momentum going even with a new lineup.

On a side note...GNR and Van Halen are "talking" about a summer tour.

[bassist_25]

On a side note...GNR and Van Halen are "talking" about a summer tour.

Could be a good economic opportunity for a machine shop if they could fabricate a stage big and strong enough as not to cave under the weight of the massive egos it would have to endure night after night.

...wonder if the shop could contract with the same metal suppliers the U.S. Army uses to armour their tanks...

Nay, that'd probably still be too weak.

[PanzerFaust]

Sorry, I thought this was a Half Tempted discussion...

Love ya RonnyD

[Naga]

On a side note...GNR and Van Halen are "talking" about a summer tour.

Could be a good economic opportunity for a machine shop if they could fabricate a stage big and strong enough as not to cave under the weight of the massive egos it would have to endure night after night.

...wonder if the shop could contract with the same metal suppliers the U.S. Army uses to armour their tanks...

Nay, that'd probably still be too weak.

C'mon Paul, you know better than that! How do you think the Pacific Ocean came about? GnR and Van Halen "grew up" on the same coast. That much ego caused a great hole in the earth's crust to fall through, and water immediately seeped in, filling it and making it an ocean. Atlantis was actually about 1500mi West of present day San Diego, as were several other countries. There were 30 more US states that spanned further west, along the same range, but as soon as GnR and Van Halen went so far in the music industry, the entire situation of land collapsed! They even say that, because of this, one day, all of California is gonna be underwater, clear on over to the Rockies!

[PanzerFaust]

How do you think the Pacific Ocean came about? GnR and Van Halen "grew up" on the same coast. That much ego caused a great hole in the earth's crust to fall through, and water immediately seeped in, filling it and making it an ocean. Atlantis was actually about 1500mi West of present day San Diego, as were several other countries. There were 30 more US states that spanned further west, along the same range, but as soon as GnR and Van Halen went so far in the music industry, the entire situation of land collapsed! They even say that, because of this, one day, all of California is gonna be underwater, clear on over to the Rockies!

Wow!!

What the hell are they teching in schools these days?

[Ron]

How do you think the Pacific Ocean came about? GnR and Van Halen "grew up" on the same coast. That much ego caused a great hole in the earth's crust to fall through, and water immediately seeped in, filling it and making it an ocean. Atlantis was actually about 1500mi West of present day San Diego, as were several other countries. There were 30 more US states that spanned further west, along the same range, but as soon as GnR and Van Halen went so far in the music industry, the entire situation of land collapsed! They even say that, because of this, one day, all of California is gonna be underwater, clear on over to the Rockies!

Wow!!

What the hell are they teching in schools these days?

teching?

[BigJohn]

I'm old I've seen AC/DC five times in concert and have never seen Brian Johnson. But I think the band still has the same original sound and feel ....

[cucuplex96]

I feel that if a new or new members keep the sound the same or make it better.. the band should go on. On the other hand if a band sounds worse I can understand that some of the people that liked the band the way it was.. would fall away.. but there is always those die hards that still like the band because of what they stand or stood for no matter what.
I cant find a negitive in it

[HurricaneBob]

I went to see a solo artist but none of the original members were there....bummer.

[Merge]

I went to see a solo artist but none of the original members were there....bummer.

Man, that's too bad. You pay all that money to get in and end up disappointed.

[felix'apprentice]

I went to see a solo artist but none of the original members were there....bummer.

Man, that's too bad. You pay all that money to get in and end up disappointed.

pay? who does that? lol i just pretend im with the band...jk jk jk

[PanzerFaust]

How do you think the Pacific Ocean came about? GnR and Van Halen "grew up" on the same coast. That much ego caused a great hole in the earth's crust to fall through, and water immediately seeped in, filling it and making it an ocean. Atlantis was actually about 1500mi West of present day San Diego, as were several other countries. There were 30 more US states that spanned further west, along the same range, but as soon as GnR and Van Halen went so far in the music industry, the entire situation of land collapsed! They even say that, because of this, one day, all of California is gonna be underwater, clear on over to the Rockies!

Wow!!

What the hell are they teching in schools these days?

teching?

Touche' my friend... I guess that's why people that live in glass houses......

I hate typing all day at work then going home to my Smurf sized keyboard on my laptop..... At least that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it...

[Banned]

On a side note...GNR and Van Halen are "talking" about a summer tour.

Could be a good economic opportunity for a machine shop if they could fabricate a stage big and strong enough as not to cave under the weight of the massive egos it would have to endure night after night.

...wonder if the shop could contract with the same metal suppliers the U.S. Army uses to armour their tanks...

Nay, that'd probably still be too weak.

C'mon Paul, you know better than that! How do you think the Pacific Ocean came about? GnR and Van Halen "grew up" on the same coast. That much ego caused a great hole in the earth's crust to fall through, and water immediately seeped in, filling it and making it an ocean. Atlantis was actually about 1500mi West of present day San Diego, as were several other countries. There were 30 more US states that spanned further west, along the same range, but as soon as GnR and Van Halen went so far in the music industry, the entire situation of land collapsed! They even say that, because of this, one day, all of California is gonna be underwater, clear on over to the Rockies!

Axl Rose was born as William Bruce Rose, Jr. in Lafayette, Indiana. So your whole ego to ocean theory is bunk. He didn't make the move to L.A. until 1982.
*****************
Anyway. ~SnOOge!!! What about the KISS line-up's over the years. Eric Carr, Eric Singer, Vinnie Vincent, Mark St. John, Bruce Kulick, and now with Tommy Thayer...Gene and Paul established a long time ago that THEY are KISS, no matter what minions they give privy to grace thier stage.