Let's talk PAs

[bassist_25]

Let's have some discussion about sound systems.

• Do you run your own sound, or hire a production company?
  What do you run through your PA? Just vocals? Vocals and acoustic instruments? Full band?
  What type of equipment are you using?

I'm interested in hearing from both musicians and sound engineers. I have no reason for this thread, other than I like to hear people's perspectives on running sound.

[Matt_22]

I have ran my own sound and also hired production to run my equipment as well as thiers. I like it better when someone else is running the sound. To much changes through a night to try to keep up with your sound. By the end of the night you will be thinking more about sound than playing. Normally we had a either 6 or 7 mics on the drums, 57's on the guitar cabs, 58's on vocs, and running the bass through a DI. We run a Mackie CFX series board, dbx compression on the overall sound before the main bus to the amps and compression on each of the drum mics. 15 band eq on the vocs, bass kick, and overall sound. A sonic maximizer on the overall and thats about it. Crown amps xls and CE series, JBL SF225s.

[tonefight]

We tried running sound ourself but I believe that we will be looking for a sound man, like Matt said it's too much to worry about while you are playing also you've only got a brief second in between songs to do anything and ya have no clue what's going on out front, its even hard to Eq the Pa when all your gear is set up behind it. I do believe we will continue with our own Pa, most sound companies are just too damn expensive for the places we've been playing. I've had some other musicians come out and help out for a fair price but they aren't always available due to playing themselves.
Having your own Pa of course can be a bitch as well, transportation, maintanance, repairs.
I wish all clubs had in house systems and we didn't have to worry about it.

[Dave]

Shift almost always runs our own sound. We mic everything unless we are in a really small place. When we are in a small place we mic everything except the full kit, we just mic the kick.

Equipment:
-Yamaha 01v96 digital console
-DBX Driverack PA
-Behringer 3102 EQ

3 2000 watt Carvin Amps
2 Carvin 3 Way Tops
2 Custom 2x18" subs
4 monitors (2 monitor mixes)

Our bassist doesn't even bring his amp anymore. We just DI him. That saves a bunch of volume. I am trying to talk our guitarist into leaving the stack at home and using a DI out of an effects pedal.

I use 57's & 58's for vocal and inst mics. I am currently using Audix ADX-90 mics on the drums (Sennheiser e602 on kick).

The 01v96 is great because it contains 4 effect processors, gates and comps on ALL channels and the ability to save everyting in scenes.

[tonefight]

Dwertz, That definatly works, we've been running our sound like that ( no amps ) and have no stage volume issues at all, in fact I sub group the vocals , bass and guitar and insert out for my monitor mix so its the same as out front. at least have the guitar player try it one night....... he needs to work with his processor sounds for that situation first though or he won't be happy. And a regular DI won't work it has to be a processor with the cabinet emulator or behringer sells a DI with a cab emulator in it for like $30 bucks.

oh yeah, for monitors I'm using a 400 watt powered mixer head turned up to about 4 and I can hear better than I ever could in a band before.

it would kill me to go back to an amp now, I like it this way too much.

[tonefight]

Just curious Dwertz, You're running 6000 in amps, when you consider the impedance of your cabinets what are you running?

[Dave]

Just curious Dwertz, You're running 6000 in amps, when you consider the impedance of your cabinets what are you running?

My dual 18" sub cabinets are 4 Ohm. I connect each sub to its own amp (Carvin DCM2000 in bridge mode - 2000W at 4 Ohm).

I also run the 3rd amp bridged as well. I connect both tops (8 Ohms each) to that amp.

Did I answer your question?

[Craven Sound]

Both. I work part-time in the family sound business that mostly does larger-scale shows, a few in the Altoona area. I've been doing this since I was 12, and it's a great change of pace from being an IT desk jockey 5 days a week. Our main PA cabinets are manufactured in England, and cost 3k per box.
I have also worked for clubs and bands that have their own PA, usually for some extra mad money. Heck, HF 1 paid for my heat system in my house. In the clubs, I generally mic everything that's feasible. I think the snare is the most over-miked part of the drum kit in a small club. (coming from a drummer that should mean something)

[Flight 19]

Flight 19 also owns our own PA

We use:
Mackie 24 Channel Console
DBX Driverack
Lexicon & TC Effects

2- 2000 Watt Carvin Amps on Subs
2- 1100 Watt Nady Amps on Mid/High
4-Carvin 2way Tops 2-15's w/Horn per cab
4-Peavey Single 18 Subs

We mic everything that is feasable, depending on the room.
Drums, we use AKG D112 on Kick, AT Pro-25's on Toms, Cheap(Nady) mic on snare
Guitars- 57's on cabinets DI on Bass
Voc's 58's, EV 'ND', Sure Headset, Singer uses Senheiser Wireless Sys

One thing I would change is the Nady Amps on the Mid Highs, ONLY because of the name..... Believe it or not, the Nady Amps work exceptionally well, considering the price.....1100 watts for under $300.00
It's hard to justify replacing these amps with higher priced name brands when these work so well....

[lonewolf]

Just curious Dwertz, You're running 6000 in amps, when you consider the impedance of your cabinets what are you running?

My dual 18" sub cabinets are 4 Ohm. I connect each sub to its own amp (Carvin DCM2000 in bridge mode - 2000W at 4 Ohm).

I also run the 3rd amp bridged as well. I connect both tops (8 Ohms each) to that amp.

Did I answer your question?

Do you have the 01V's stereo out to the DRPA's stereo in? If so, does the DRPA convert to mono high and mono sub? I've been trying to find a way to run my DRPA in a dual-mono mode, but can't find any settings for that.

[Dave]

Do you have the 01V's stereo out to the DRPA's stereo in? If so, does the DRPA convert to mono high and mono sub? I've been trying to find a way to run my DRPA in a dual-mono mode, but can't find any settings for that.

No, I just run left out to left in on the DRPA. I have the DRPA set for mono.

I remember reading an article about someone trying to get the DRPA into a dual mono mode so they could run Aux fed subs. I think it may have been on the driverack discussions at www.driverack.com.

[Dave]

One thing I would change is the Nady Amps on the Mid Highs, ONLY because of the name..... Believe it or not, the Nady Amps work exceptionally well, considering the price.....1100 watts for under $300.00
It's hard to justify replacing these amps with higher priced name brands when these work so well....

I just ordered one of the Nady 900Watt amps so I can have 4 monitor mixes. I have heard some good comments about them.

[Flight 19]

Dave,
You will be pleasantly suprised at how well the Nady amp works.. , but they are very heavy compared to the Carvins

[Dave]

Heavy compared to the Carvins! Holy cow, they must be heavy. I have 3 of those DCM2000's in one rack. That is a real joy to haul around. I need to get some of those QSC PLX's like Brian has. Nice and light.

[red]

We looked for the right system for quite a while, and being a 2 piece acoustic act (sometimes 3 or 4 piece) we weren't sure what to do. we discovered the new Bose personal amplification system and it is awesome!! It totally eliminates the need for monitors and is compact........
Well, check it out for yourselves if you want.......
www.bose.com
Click on products for musicians and watch the video!!!

[tonefight]

We looked for the right system for quite a while, and being a 2 piece acoustic act (sometimes 3 or 4 piece) we weren't sure what to do. we discovered the new Bose personal amplification system and it is awesome!! It totally eliminates the need for monitors and is compact........
Well, check it out for yourselves if you want.......
www.bose.com
Click on products for musicians and watch the video!!!

I've looked at that before it does look very interesting, your group looks interesting too so maybe I'll have to make it a point to come out and check it both out.

[Ron]

Hey red,
What configuration of the Bose PAS are you using?

[songsmith]

I'm very interested in hearing the Bose tower thingy, too. So far, the pro's are pooh-poohing it, mostly because it would need to break certain laws of physics, like the tendency for sound to attenuate (get quieter) in a medium, in this case, air. There would have to be at least some change in sound pressure level as you get further away from the source... perhaps they use psychoacoustics to change the PERCEIVED volume... I find it very interesting. It sure would make life easier for me if it works well. I'm still waiting for the "PA Boombox." You'd set it in front of you at an acoustic gig, it'd have the whole "acoustic wave" deal going on out front, and maybe one pointed back at the musician for monitor, onboard FX, maybe 4 channels, some EQ, and like the size of a breadbox. Suh-Weet!!----->JMS

[red]

We went with the tower/dual bass system. It reproduces acoustic instruments perfectly! My upright bass sounds perfect thru it, as does our guitar. We have ran a fiddle and a mandolin thru it as well and it handled all 4 instruments and 2 vocals with ease. (we were outdoors besides!)

[lonewolf]

I'm still waiting for the "PA Boombox." You'd set it in front of you at an acoustic gig, it'd have the whole "acoustic wave" deal going on out front, and maybe one pointed back at the musician for monitor, onboard FX, maybe 4 channels, some EQ, and like the size of a breadbox. Suh-Weet!!----->JMS

I'm getting closer!

How about a 20" cube with 12 studio quality channels, FX, EQ & feedback control for mains & monitors and 4 x 500W channels for mains & monitors?

Bummer, I'll have to drag those 35lb. EVs around, though.

[DATASOUND]

Both. I work part-time in the family sound business that mostly does larger-scale shows, a few in the Altoona area. I've been doing this since I was 12, and it's a great change of pace from being an IT desk jockey 5 days a week. Our main PA cabinets are manufactured in England, and cost 3k per box.
I have also worked for clubs and bands that have their own PA, usually for some extra mad money. Heck, HF 1 paid for my heat system in my house. In the clubs, I generally mic everything that's feasible. I think the snare is the most over-miked part of the drum kit in a small club. (coming from a drummer that should mean something)

What brand/model/manufacture PA cabinets are they?

[LHSL]

Let's have some discussion about sound systems.

• Do you run your own sound, or hire a production company?
  What do you run through your PA? Just vocals? Vocals and acoustic instruments? Full band?
  What type of equipment are you using?

I'm interested in hearing from both musicians and sound engineers. I have no reason for this thread, other than I like to hear people's perspectives on running sound.

Well, I'm a sound engineer/production company that grew out of doing sound for an 8 piece band on a pretty regular basis.

Since then I've done everything from jazz/swing to punk and metal, highshcool musicals and everything inbetween.

I almost always mic or DI everything on stage that is making a sound, save a tambourine or cowbell. Do I always put it through? No, that depends on how things sound coming from the stage and how big the room is. I don't find myself needing a ton of snare drum in bars, but a little kick is nice but that's just an example it's not always the case. I mix to suit the room and the crowd.

Outdoors, just about everything get's pumped through.

Some things I've learned over the years.
It takes A LOT of pa to compete with marshall half stacks.
Spliting vocals to have seperate monitor channels with seperate EQ control at FOH is a big help if you don't have a full mon split available.
A combination of close micing and distant micing a horn section really fattens up the brass sound through the PA.

The equipment I have is a mix of professional and some music industry stuff.

I try to buy professional stuff where it counts. For instance, the FOH speakers consist of EAW KF650z tops and LA400 subs. Amps are all QSC MX, RMX, and PLX series. Console is a Soundcraft Spirit 8 32 channel. Dbx processing, EQ and dynamics with a few peices of behringer gear thrown in.

The mics I have are a wide variety, AKG, Shure, Senny.

I subsribe to a school of thought where buying the best of everything will bankrupt you real quick. So buy where it counts. I don't care if you are touring the country with a Meyer system, doing festivals with Danley lab stuff, or giging in bars with Carvin or Peavey gear... the number one place for the most distortion are speakers and mics. Even the cheapest amps and processors are maybe .1% distortion at there LIMITS. But speakers are on orders of 1-5% for even the best and 10% for just about everything else.

So no, I don't have Ashly EQs. But I think I spend my money wisely.

[LHSL]

Both. I work part-time in the family sound business that mostly does larger-scale shows, a few in the Altoona area. I've been doing this since I was 12, and it's a great change of pace from being an IT desk jockey 5 days a week. Our main PA cabinets are manufactured in England, and cost 3k per box.
I have also worked for clubs and bands that have their own PA, usually for some extra mad money. Heck, HF 1 paid for my heat system in my house. In the clubs, I generally mic everything that's feasible. I think the snare is the most over-miked part of the drum kit in a small club. (coming from a drummer that should mean something)

What brand/model/manufacture PA cabinets are they?

At that price, there are only a few.

Turbosound, Martin, Funktion off the top of my head.

[soundman8199]

Speaking of Turbosound, if anybody is interested in buying Turbosound speakers, come on into Ace's Music Sales I will get you any Turbosound speaker you want, its pretty expensive equipment but its also very
high-end products. Also i can now get QSC & Soundcraft products. Grundorf rack cases i can also get. So if anyone's interested in these products feel free to stop in.

Thanks

Rick
Ace's Music Sales
7848 Admiral Peary Hwy (old rt 22)
Cresson, PA
(814) 886-5718

Behringer, Johnson, AXL, Avlex, SHS, Morley, Knucklehead, Turbosound, QSC, Soundcraft, On-Stage, Grundorf, Inter-M, & many more.

[Hannibal]

The speaker system that Craven is talking about is the Martin Wavefront system. Subs are WSX, single 18" in a 7 foot folded horn configuration. Top cabs are 3 way horn loaded, single 12" low mid, 6.5" high mid, and 1" compression driver. We have six of each box at present. Check them out at martin-audio.com on the web.