setting eq for pa vocals

[Banned]

How do you set your EQ for your Pa vocals? Is it ever a good idea to set it in a straight line? With the treble in neg? Could this be causing a flat monotone vocals. The monitor setting are in a smiley and the monitors sound good when your singing. But when you record it sounds as if there are no highs or low tone in the mains. I have always just set both in a smiley face and made minor tweeks if needed??? This is something new to me. Should the settings for the mains match the settings for the monitors? This is a small carvin system . Any suggestion would be appriciated... Debbie

[MeYatch]

graphic EQs are not for drawing pictures!
Start flat, and use your ears to EQ

[Ron]

Every room and situation is different.

[VENTGtr]

Wow. There's a lot to this. Like Mitch and Ron said, use your ears to
see what's working for any given room, and every room is different.

Along with that, a recording isn't a good way to judge how a room is
sounding. If you're going with a board mix, it may vary a lot from the
room and someone would/should be sitting there with headphones
(Which can be really misleading themselves) doing a separate mix
of what's going to the recording. If you're recording using a mic(s)
picking up from the room, from what's coming from the mains, there
are, oh...a million variables. WHERE the mics are, how the room
sounds, absorbs frequencies, how crowded a room is, etc., etc.

Also, the mons will, more than likely, have a different EQ setup that
the mains. Plus, it's goin' to depend on what you're sending through
them.

Best result I've heard of one of our shows recorded was putting a good
condenser on a stand, about 6.5/7" at the back of a room and running to
a laptop. Came out pretty well, but have to remember what it is; a live
recording with no one really keeping tabs on the mix. Some on here may
disagree, but I'd not put too much into how things sound out front from a
recording.

"I have always just set both in a smiley face and made minor tweeks if
needed???"

Actually, it was nice to read that. A guy I know, who is a great soundtech,
used to start out this way every show he did. Still seems odd...but it worked
well for him. May depend on how big of a smile your board is sportin'.

[lonewolf]

I use channel EQ to tweak mics and pretty much always use those settings for a given mic, give or take a little. Some mics sound good right out of the box and some need some tweaking to match up. Instrument mics need other settings. If you change mics, you change the channel EQ to suit. The whole idea at the channel is the get all the mics sounding good relative to each other.

Use the main graphic (or parametric if you use one) to adjust the system to the room. The idea is to get a relatively flat response out of your speakers under the room conditions. If you are using the PA for vocals only, you really don't need frequencies below 80 hz and you might want to roll off frequencies below this. This removes some muddiness and also allows your power amp to concentrate more power to the low-mids instead of wasting it on unused low frequency noise.

Since they are used as near-field only, monitors should be eq'd accordingly. The only "room" consideration with monitors is that you want to avoid the room's resonant frequencies that will cause feedback. The monitors should be positioned so that they have minimal effect on the audience area serviced by the mains. Once again, if they are vocal-only, you should definitely roll back the frequencies below 80hz. Since they are near-field, monitors have a tendency to feedback more than mains. You can use an EQ to clear this up, but I prefer the notch filters available in feedback exterminators.

The "smiley face" got started because most older (and some newer) speakers have a limited frequency response at the low and high ends. To compensate for this, you boost those frequencies on the EQ to flatten the output. Its a good idea to look at the frequency response curves for your speakers to get a rough idea where they will need a boost or cut. Rather than a smiley face, you might find that an upside-down version of this curve is a better starting point for your EQ. With today's speakers, a smirk might work better than a smile.

If you record live, the recording system is mutually exclusive from the PA and needs its own EQ considerations. That all depends on the recording system and the mics being used.

[Banned]

I have always just set both in a smiley face and made minor tweeks if
needed???"
Actually, it was nice to read that. A guy I know, who is a great soundtech,
used to start out this way every show he did. Still seems odd...but it worked
well for him. May depend on how big of a smile your board is sportin'.

TDave Thank you for all your good advice. Nothing takes the place of a good ear. I learned the smiley trick in Nashville in the 80's. Things have sure changed since then. You gave me alot to think about. I really like the headset idea. One thing I know for sure is how little I know about setting up these new systems. Thanks again Deb

[Banned]

The idea is to get a relatively flat response out of your speakers under the room conditions. If you are using the PA for vocals only, you really don't need frequencies below 80 hz and you might want to roll off frequencies below this. This removes some muddiness and also allows your power amp to concentrate more power to the low-mids instead of wasting it on unused low frequency noise.

Jeff What are the highest frequencies hz you would focus on? I Have used the upside down smile for real bad rooms. You are right it did take out the boomey sounds. For a female voice I like the smiley better. These new systems are much more advanced. I will be breaking out my 24 channel mixer for the upcoming Oriental ball room gig. I don't like seat of the pants setups. Dick is a task master he is excellent at light production, organization and all the other management details, I would like to take some of the pressure off him and use my Pa equipment. I have heard too many local bands with great vocals get lost in bad mixes. Thanks Jeff nice to have your experence on this site.

Thanks again Deb

[killedbydeath]

Like most of the other gents said,there are literally millions of varables. The size, shape, and ceiling height of the room, the building materials that were used, etc.etc.etc. I usually set a level then tweak it for the room. A good ear is your best bet, but don't rely on just your ears, ask your band mates too. Two heads are better than one and four ears are better than two.

[Banned]

Like most of the other gents said,there are literally millions of varables. The size, shape, and ceiling height of the room, the building materials that were used, etc.etc.etc. I usually set a level then tweak it for the room. A good ear is your best bet, but don't rely on just your ears, ask your band mates too. Two heads are better than one and four ears are better than two.

Great advice. I found an excellent website. Seems to be Pa for dummies. http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/runIV.htm Thanks for all your help guys. I found pro to come over and get me started thank again Deb

[DATASOUND]

Like most of the other gents said,there are literally millions of varables. The size, shape, and ceiling height of the room, the building materials that were used, etc.etc.etc. I usually set a level then tweak it for the room. A good ear is your best bet, but don't rely on just your ears, ask your band mates too. Two heads are better than one and four ears are better than two.

Great advice. I found an excellent website. Seems to be Pa for dummies. http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/runIV.htm Thanks for all your help guys. I found pro to come over and get me started thank again Deb

Personnaly, I wouldn't recommend this site to anyone. It may be fine for some basic beginner info, but if you follow many of the practices and methods into your advancing levels, you will run into a brick wall on your learning curve. Not to mention some of what I read was bad advice.

Much of what your asking is subjective to your own taste of what you like to hear. That being said, monitor EQ's are easy to set. And I will assume you are talking about a graphic EQ on the whole monitor mix. Here is a better method of setting monitor mix graphic EQ's.
http://www.karensavoca.com/tech.html#topic2
I haven't researched the rest of that site so my recomendation is for the "ringing out monitors" article only.

Setting your PA graphic eq has many more variables. You have already gotten some good advice. I will add this. Recording and live are two totally different animals. I would takle them both separately before I would expect to have good results at doing them together. You may try to find a local soundperson to come out to a live show and help out.

[Banned]

Thanks Dean. We decided to get help from an experenced soundman for this weekends gig. What a difference. I could hear the monitors and the vocals sounded clear and balanced. Thanks for checking the website out for us. I know you know your stuff thanks for sorting out the facts.
Deb

[stratobastard27]

Deb, there's also the option of not using monitors! I'm not being a smartass, I am a recent convert to In-Ear monitors. Carvin makes an all metal system for $350, which is a hell of a sight cheaper than Shure. I LOVE THEM. I'll never go back to wedges. Additionally, now my band requires no wedges, Power amps for those wedges, eq/rack gear for those wedges.... And we quit hauling onstage backline! I'm plugging my guitar into my Line6 pedal, and our bassist goes straight to a direct box. Our set up time dropped from almost 2 hours to 45 minutes.

[Merge]

I've been trying to convert Stratobastard27 to in ears for years, it's nice to see he finally listened, lol.

He is right, though. The only thing you have to worry about when using no amps with wireless in ear monitors is this: If the battery in your beltpack dies, you have no way to hear what you're playing. I've used in ears for 5 years, and I've taken my amp with me everytime. There is nothing wrong what Stratobastard27 is doing, though, I just prefer to do it the other way.

[floodcitybrass]

Set main eq so that the response from your main speakers is nearly flat.
(Easier said than done without dsp/processor/rta etc.)

Adjust each channel to your liking. Just because vocals sound ok with a smiley face eq does not mean every other channel sounds good.

The smiley eq pattern is so often used because human ears are overly sensitive to the mid range frequencies.

[Banned]

Deb, there's also the option of not using monitors! I'm not being a smartass, I am a recent convert to In-Ear monitors. Carvin makes an all metal system for $350, which is a hell of a sight cheaper than Shure. I LOVE THEM. I'll never go back to wedges. Additionally, now my band requires no wedges, Power amps for those wedges, eq/rack gear for those wedges.... And we quit hauling onstage backline! I'm plugging my guitar into my Line6 pedal, and our bassist goes straight to a direct box. Our set up time dropped from almost 2 hours to 45 minutes.

I am very interested in the in ear monitors Is there is model number on these.? My system is all Carvin.. Going monitorless is as out of the question as going braless at my age. I am being a smart ass LOL Thanks for the info. You are right alot of the feedback issues are the monitors. I bought a powered monitor and it really created feedback problems I took it back. We Used Charlie Cherry as soundman this weekend AT the Alley in Central City. This Room is huge has a metal cealing and cement floor a real challange. He did a great job. Wish we could keep him around. Thanks Again I am on may way to carvin site now... Deb