Capasitor and resistor values...

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

I only run my guitars with 1 volume, no caps or anything, just wide open on 10.

Here's my question:
I have an Alder Strat style guitar with an EMG'81 and for some reason it sounds very bright and brittle in that.

What value of cap and resistor would you recommend I use to tame the high end down?
(I'm not going to add a tone pot, so that's out of the equation.)

I heard that if I solder a cap, and/or a resistor in series with my 25k volume pot, it will act like a tone pot and suck up some high end.

Do active use a lower value than actives? Like a .001, or .002?

Can I put this in line with my toggle switch?

Thanks guys.

(Ihad this problem with passives and I used a 250k to cure that, but I dont know of a lower value pot for actives, do you?)

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

Can someone please post a link to show how to decipher the codes on the caps and resistors?

I used to know, but I forget how.

Also, I found some caps in my tool box, some are Square Green ones, Square Orange ones, and I found two Round Orange ones.
The green ones have:
First one : .1K1
Second one:
104K
100V

The Square Orange one has:
2A223J
Second Square Orange has:
1K223K

Are the Orange ones caps or resistors?
The one orange one has #203 printed on it.
The other one has:
Y5U
102M
KCK

Thanks guys!

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

These instructions for the "confidence booster" from build your own clone has instructions on how to read a resister.

http://buildyourownclone.com/confidenceinstructions.pdf

A potentiometer like a tone pot is a variable resister, so I would just check the wiring diagram for your pickup, and substitute the resister for the tone pot.

I would imagine you will need to experiment with a few different resisters to find the value you like.

Or if you have a tone pot lying around, wire it up, turn it to where you want it, and measure resistance with a multimeter.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

metalchurch wrote:Can someone please post a link to show how to decipher the codes on the caps and resistors?

I used to know, but I forget how.

Also, I found some caps in my tool box, some are Square Green ones, Square Orange ones, and I found two Round Orange ones.
The green ones have:
First one : .1K1
Second one:
104K
100V

The Square Orange one has:
2A223J
Second Square Orange has:
1K223K

Are the Orange ones caps or resistors?
The one orange one has #203 printed on it.
The other one has:
Y5U
102M
KCK

Thanks guys!

they are probably all caps. Resisters are small cylinders, and the values are coded with colored bands.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

Yeah you're right.
I found some photos online that helped me decipher the codes too.

Any pot can be used for a Volume or Tone pot. There's no specific use for either.
Although most volume posts are audio taper, some tone pots are linear taper.

Pots that have a "B" stamped on the bottom are Linear.
Ex: B500K = Linear
A500K = Audio taper.

Audio taper pots have a gradual increase in their volume or tone when turing the knob.
Linear taper has a sharp change, and almost like an on/off.

Thanks for the help Meyatch! You da' man!!

I have a bunch of caps, and B500K pots cause I tear them out as soon as I get a guitar that has them

Another question:
Does anyone know of a Push/Pull pot that's 500K, and 250K when it's pulled?

Thanks

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

metalchurch wrote:Another question:
Does anyone know of a Push/Pull pot that's 500K, and 250K when it's pulled?

Thanks

never heard of that, but you could get a 250k push/pull pot and wire a resister in to do that.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

I just thought of maybe doing that with a passive pickup just for the tonal variety. Using 1 humbucker/1 volume has it's draw backs and i am always thinking of ways to keep that setup, but get different sounds.

Here's another question:
Which lug should I solder the cap to?

The lead/hot lug...

Or the Center lug (output)

One side goes the the lug, and the other side goes to the back of the pot, right?

I have the diagrams for a V/T, but it's going from the #1 (left side lug, which I'm guessing is the lead) to the Center lug on the tone pot.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

there are a couple different ways you can successfully wire them up. I would just follow your diagram

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

That's the thing, I only have diagrams for a capasitor using a tone control.

Here's the 1humbucker 1V/1T diagram:
(I know it's a Seymour Duncan diagram, but it's the same as an EMG)

Here's what I have:
1 humbucker, 1 Volume (18v mod)

I would just try at random to see which lug to use, but my fretboard has an overhang, and I have to removed the neck to remove the pickguard, and it's a pain in the ass.

Thanks whom ever can figure this out for me.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

follow the v/t diagram, and wire the battery up the way it is in the other diagram. Looks like the only difference is attach the red wire from the battery to the pickup, and the battery ground to the sleeve.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

If you look at that diagram, the tone pot is in parallel so maybe a resistor and a capacitor in parallel would give you your desired effect ?

Not real sure about active pickups but I know that higher value tone pots don't allow the treble to bleed off.

When I ordered vintage noisless pickups for my mexican strat they came with 1000k tone pots, yes 1000 not 100. I wired them up per instructions and the highs were just killer, ear piercing actually. I complained about this on the Fender forum and someone suggested I change back to 250k pots, it worked wonders.

So the reason I was given was that, treble actually bleeds through the lower resistance pots and with the 1000k pots I was getting all the treble my guitar and pickups had to offer.

So with no tone pots you would be also getting all the treble the guitar has to offer.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

Actually now that I loo at it again The resistor and capacitor would have to be in series with each other but in parallel with the volume pot.

Try a 250k resistor and a .022uf ( I think that's standard value ) capacitor in series with each other but in parallel with the volume. I'm curious too but not ambitious enough to go do it.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

tonefight wrote:Actually now that I loo at it again The resistor and capacitor would have to be in series with each other but in parallel with the volume pot.

Try a 250k resistor and a .022uf ( I think that's standard value ) capacitor in series with each other but in parallel with the volume. I'm curious too but not ambitious enough to go do it.

that would be the equivalent of have the tone control rolled all the way down, which I seriously doubt joe wants to do.

I havn't actually thought about how to correctly wire a resister in place of a tone pot yet, I figured joe was going to wire up the tone pot, and see what value he wanted.

Here's a thought joe.

Wire up a mini trim pot as a tone control, set it where you want it, then tuck it in the control cavity.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

joe this P-bass wiring diagram has a tone pot with only 2 connections (one in, one out,) should be very simple to replace with a resister.

just just wire one end to the volume pot, the other end to a cap

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... ml#details

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

MeYatch wrote:[]

that would be the equivalent of have the tone control rolled all the way down, which I seriously doubt joe wants to do.

.

I'm not 100% on this but .........don't forget the tone pot is wired to ground, the 250k is between the pickup lead and ground therefore wouldn't the 250k be as if the tone pot was in its neutral position ? Wich for the most part won't effect tone but may allow those extra high frequencies bleed to ground. Wich was the complaint in the beggining.

Actually I'm thinking you may not even need the capacitor just put a resistor from the pickup lead on your volume pot to ground.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

Metal church, here is a link to a diagram with a push pull volume pot
http://guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUH00101

That site should also have whatever parts you could ever need.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

I'm not 100% on this but .........don't forget the tone pot is wired to ground, the 250k is between the pickup lead and ground therefore wouldn't the 250k be as if the tone pot was in its neutral position ? Wich for the most part won't effect tone but may allow those extra high frequencies bleed to ground. Wich was the complaint in the beggining.

Actually I'm thinking you may not even need the capacitor just put a resistor from the pickup lead on your volume pot to ground.[/quote]

I don't think so. People say that not having a tone pot at all allows more highs to come through, which is obviously like having no resister at all.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

MeYatch wrote:I don't think so. People say that not having a tone pot at all allows more highs to come through, which is obviously like having no resister at all.

Exactly, he is getting the extra high end because he has no tone pot. That is because even on 10 or max resistance ( 250k ) the highs still bleed through to ground. So if he just wires a full value resistor up ( 250k ) he is simulating the tone pot on 10.
A lower value like 100k will kill even more highs but will start to be a little more dramatic. He could experiment with different values but the 250k should simulate a tone but it its neutral state (10).
Think about it as the resistance lowers more tone goes to ground so you need the full value. 0 resistance to ground is what you have with no tone pot. I think you are thinking this backwards.

Where's lonewolf, he could solve all this without even scratching his head.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

Ok, you forced me to go get a meter out and test an old set of controls. with the tone pot set at 10 I had 280k ( little high ) basically full value.

So if you look at joe's diagram from the point where the black pickup lead is to the center tap on the tone pot I read 280k when its set on 10.

On a 1 volume 1 pickup circuit I really think its worth a try to solder one end of a resistor to where the black pickup lead connects on the volume, solder the other end of the resistor to 1 end of a capacitor ( .022k, I checked ) solder the other end of the capacitor to ground.

This should simulate a tone control on 10. If there are still too much highs lower the value till you are happy.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sunday Dec 07, 2008

Ok, then it would be the #1 lug (lead or hot lug) and solder the other end to ground, like you said Tony.

It's recommended to use a .100 capasitor for actives, but I'm gonna try a few different ones.
I wish I had some alligator clips, cause that would be faster than soldering each time.

I'm going to try that tomorrow.
I posted this on a few other forums and no one else repsonded with anything worth a damn except for you guys, so I would like to thank you for takin time to do so.

I'm not used to really wiring up anything but 1H/1V, so this is all new to me. I'd love to try that trim pot idea, Mitch. That sounds really cool.

Someone else told me to lower the pickup height down to reduce the highend, but it will in turn reduce overall output, because EMG's are designed to be as close to the pickups as possible, because they don't have a strong magnetic pull as compared to passives, so I threw that idea out the window, because I dont want to lose output, just the highend.

Now if I were running a PA-2 or an AB then I'd consider it, but that might put me right back where I was.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Monday Dec 08, 2008

I was told that since I'm not using a Tone pot that I couldn't use a capasitor with a Volume pot only.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Lonewolf.....
jackANSI....
where are you guys!!!

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Dec 08, 2008

http://www.emgpickups.com/downloads/wir ... series.pdf

Not real familiar with actice electronics joe, but if you look at the diagram i posted the link for you would solder a capacitor lead (.1uf) to the volume pot on the terminal your pickup connects to, then solder the other capacitor lead to your resistor (25k) then solder the other resistor lead to ground. This would give you the same circuit as the tone pot at 10.

Capacitor and resistor are series with each other and parallel with the volume pot.

Seems they put the capacitor in front of the resistor in the active circuit any idea why?

They also use a .1uf cap and 25k pot wich you seem to already know. That's new to me though never wired an active circuit.

I'm out till after work tommorrow , good luck

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Monday Dec 08, 2008

Do I have to run a resistor as well?
I was talking about using only a capasitor initially. That was another thing that I'm confused about, because I have a 25k Volume/Tone that were pre-wired from EMG, andit uses only a .100 cap and that's it.

They recommend a .100 for actives by the way.

Thanks Tony
You've been alot of help here, and I'm glad to see you in the tech, you shouldn't be a stranger man!

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Monday Dec 08, 2008

tonefight wrote:Ok, you forced me to go get a meter out and test an old set of controls. with the tone pot set at 10 I had 280k ( little high ) basically full value.

cool, I know I have a multimeter somewhere, but I can't find it so I will take your word for it.

metalchurch wrote:Do I have to run a resistor as well?
I was talking about using only a capasitor initially. That was another thing that I'm confused about, because I have a 25k Volume/Tone that were pre-wired from EMG, andit uses only a .100 cap and that's it.

I think you are going to have to use a resister as well. What do you mean 25k volume/tone, concentric pots?

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Monday Dec 08, 2008

No, that was short for a 25k volume and a 25k tone pot. Two seperate units.