Politics you SHOULD be talking about

[Hawk]

Lisa, please do the research.

If you earn what you earn now - you will get a tax CUT. Why is it that you don't want that ?

If and when you earn over $250,000 your taxes will be increased only by the additional OVER $250,000. It won't be that much. And it will be off set by cuts in capitol gains taxes.


Everyone who gets health benefits through their employer UNDER McCAIN'S plan, will be TAXED for the amount of those benefits. He is increasing taxes, while Obama is cutting taxes.

Being self employed, do you buy your own health insurance ? McCain will give the insurance company (for you) $5000. Honestly, Can you buy insurance for yourself for $5,000 (or $10,000 for you and your husband.

What happens as insurance premiums rise, do you think the republicans are just going to keep giving you more ? That plan is idiotic.

Obama will give tax credits to business that offer health to employees, and negotiate with insurance companies to bring the premiums down so that everyone can afford them.

Which plan do you think will cost more of taxpayer money ?

It is McCain who wants to socialize health care with new entitlements at the taxpayer's expense !

[bassist_25]

P.s

Kevin: I'm actually very surprised at the benefits, pay, and respect that you recieve. Perhaps Wal-Mart is not as bad as I thought. However, you may want to check into the anti-union vs. don't need union stance of the corporation. Wal-mart's solution to losing an election campaign is to close shop.

[songsmith]

Oh, Joe, the class-envy argument. "If you can't make a half-billion-dollar bonus for a few years' work, you're just jealous."
Um, no. I lead a very nice life, thanks. I have the time to dick around on Rockpage, and still eat well. I'm as happy as I want to be.
You'll notice, I've never said "I DESERVE MORE." I did however, note that 4500 people could have really good wages instead of one old man. Maybe they could have spent that 400 million on alternative fuels development, OOPS!!... Hell, if they wanted to do that, they'd have reinvested that 20-billion tax break in tech that weens us away from terrorists (the foreign kind, who want to cut our heads off, not the kind who teach in colleges).
No sir, I don't envy thieves and bullies. They'll get theirs. So will the guys who helped them.
The "they're just jealous" argument was stupid when my mom said it when I was in junior high, and it just seems laughable when applied to class struggle, as well. If you took my lunch money, I'm not going to be jealous of you. Angry, frustrated, vengeful, justice-seeking, sure. Not jealous.------->JMS

[YankeeRose]

Corporations pay plenty of $/have lobbyists helping to keep things their way (this would include insurance/pharmaceutical ones), and I feel no sympathy for them what so ever.




Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free
Dizzy with eternity
Paint it with a skin of sky, brush in some clouds and sea
Call it home for you and me
A peaceful place, or so it looks from space
A closer look reveals the human race
Full of Hope, full of Grace, is the human face
But afraid we may lay our home to waste
There's a fear down here we can't forget
Hasn't got a name just yet
Always awake, always around
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Now watch as the ball revolves and the night-time falls
And again the hunt begins and again the blood wind calls
By and by, again, the morning Sun will rise
But the darkness never goes from some men's eyes
(Well I know)
It strolls the sidewalk and it rolls the streets
Staking turf, dividing up meat
Nightmare spook, piece of heat
It's you and me, you and me
Click flash blade in ghetto night
Rudy's looking for a fight
Rat cat alley, roll them bones
Need that cash to feed that jones
And the politicians throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Commissars and pinstripe bosses roll the dice
Anyway they fall, guess who gets to pay the price?
Money green, or proletarian gray
Selling guns instead of food today
So the kids they dance and shake their bones
And the politicians throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Heartless powers try to tell us what to think
If the Spirit's sleeping, then the flesh is ink
History's page will be neatly carved in stone
The future's here, we are it, we are on our own
On our own, on our own, we are on our own
If the game is lost, then we're all the same
No one left to place or take the blame
We will leave this place an empty stone
Or that shining ball of blue we call our home
So the kids, they dance, they shake their bones
And the politicians throwing stones Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Shipping powders back and forth
Singing black goes south and white comes north
And the whole world full of petty wars
Singing I got mine and you got yours
While the current fashions set the pace
Lose your step, fall out of grace
The radical, he rant and rage
Singing someone got to turn the page
And the rich man in his summer home
Singing just leave well enough alone
But his pants are down, his cover's blown
And the politicians throwing stones So the kids, they dance, they shake their bones
'Cause it's all too clear we're on our own
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free
It's dizzying, the possibilities
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down
Ashes, ashes, all fall down



"Throwing Stones" Grateful Dead



Btw, it was an amazing show Monday night! (I called the local Obama office Monday and 2 kind Souls provided transportation up and back.) The ABB opened the show with "Revival", threw in Van Morrison's "And It Stoned Me" (About WATER.) among favorite hits for a welcome treat, and their final encore tune was "Jessica". The Grateful Dead (Jerry was there in Spirit...) opened with "Truckin'", "U.S. Blues", "Saint Stephen", and yes, "Throwing Stones" was indeed played. Their final encore tune, "Not Fade Away"...how the packed BJC was singing and clapping along and many carried the chorus and clapping out into the halls and into the night, well, I know I won't ever forget it!

[Banned]

Whatever. It just seems that an idea to lower state and federal corporate taxes to help lure businesses to this area is automatically shot down by you because some guy might get richer. Oh, and all rich guys are evil, so we can't let them make more money, even if it will help many local residents get better jobs.

Poor people do not hire employees. So sometimes we need those evil rich guys who hand out paychecks on Fridays.

[Hawk]

If the middle class had more money to spend (less taxes) the money would trickle UP to any rich person who wants to invest in America. So they can get richer ! No envy whatsoever.

It's better than the Republican plan of spend and pass on the debt.

It's all so easy.

[bassist_25]

Whatever. It just seems that an idea to lower state and federal corporate taxes to help lure businesses to this area is automatically shot down by you because some guy might get richer..

Strawman argument

Where did I ever say that we shouldn't lower taxes to help bring large businesses in? I said that thinking that lowering the taxes a little bit is a pie-in-the-sky dream when there are a lot more ways to cut costs in a global economy than just taking a tax break, at least when we're talking about production.

[Banned]

If the middle class had more money to spend (less taxes) the money would trickle UP to any rich person who wants to invest in America. So they can get richer ! No envy whatsoever.

It's better than the Republican plan of spend and pass on the debt.

It's all so easy.

Why not lower all taxes, and not only will the middle class have good jobs because corporate taxes were cut, but they would be taxed less on those earning. That is the less government libertarian way. Everyone wins.

[bassist_25]

I'm all for lowering taxes across the board, but there's also something that needs to be done: Lower spending!

[Banned]

I'm all for lowering taxes across the board, but there's also something that needs to be done: Lower spending!

Amen.

[Hawk]

If the middle class had more money to spend (less taxes) the money would trickle UP to any rich person who wants to invest in America. So they can get richer ! No envy whatsoever.

It's better than the Republican plan of spend and pass on the debt.

It's all so easy.

Why not lower all taxes, and not only will the middle class have good jobs because corporate taxes were cut, but they would be taxed less on those earning. That is the less government libertarian way. Everyone wins.

You know that will never happen. That horse is already buried and decomposed and you're still beating it.

They will either spend us into a deficit - or be responsible and get us out of said deficit, which will unfortunately take taxes.

[Dark Soul]

I don't mean to bash on anyone, but Lisa...I'm afraid Hawk is right. You're just not in full possession of the facts. I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to know the real truth go here:

http://www.factcheck.org

FactCheck.org's Mission Statement:

We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.

The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.

The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.


Read and learn, folks. I'm not saying the Democrats are perfect, but the GOP has a long history of lying, helping big business at the expense of the little people, and trying to control the media to warp public perception in their favor. McCain and Palin are no different. I know Obama's people have been caught bending the truth a few times, but the Republicans practically make it their doctrine to do so. As a rule of thumb, I vote for the Dems just to keep the Republicans out of the White House.

[Banned]

Hawk, we will never tax our way out of a deficit. It can only be accomplished by a growing economy. Lowering taxes has always resulted in expanding the economy. (see how Congress and Clinton lowered the capital gains taxes in the 90's and a result was an economic boom)

[Dark Soul]

I don't think there is any one single factor that will affect things in a major way. It's about the general approach. You can't just lower taxes and reduce spending across the board and have things improve. This is one of the things that really annoys me about the political rhetoric that gets spewed out of the media at us.

McCain is continually trying to tell people that Obama will raise taxes, but he never goes into detail. Yes, Obama wants to raise taxes...for the RICH people who can easily afford it! Which, by the way, includes himself. Reducing spending is not the answer. The economy will improve when we move our spending from things that aren't going anywhere and don't improve quality of life to things that will make a difference. The only time in recent history we've been in the black was during Clinton's tenure, and that was simply because he was a Democrat who wasn't in bed with big business companies.

I'm reminded of a great quote from "The Matrix: Reloaded" from the scene where Neo and the Oracle are talking about how to get Merovingian to let the Keymaker go. Neo asks what Merovingian wants and she replies, "What do all men with power want? More power."

That quote epitomizes what's wrong with the world today.

[Banned]

You can't just lower taxes and reduce spending across the board and have things improve.

Why not???? Over taxation and over spending is how we got in the mess the US is in today.

Up until the WWI, the US government survived on about 4% of GDP. Today this bloated wasteful government takes about 21% of GDP. There is plenty of room to slim down.

[Dark Soul]

Why not???? Over taxation and over spending is how we got in the mess the US is in today.

I just explained why. How much taxation and spending goes on isn't so important as who gets taxed and what that money gets spent on. If you do the research, you'll see that the percentage of tax money coming from the middle class is grossly disproportionate to the percentage paid by the wealthy. The government is a business, and like any other company, they've got bills to pay and the money has to come from somewhere. If the system worked well we wouldn't be having the crisis we're in at the moment. The outstanding public debt right is well over $10,000,000,000,000 and has been increasing at a rate of almost $3,500,000,000 every single day for the past year. Cutting taxes across the board will only make things worse. We need more money coming in, not less. Adjusting spending will help, but that alone isn't enough.

Up until the WWI, the US government survived on about 4% of GDP. Today this bloated wasteful government takes about 21% of GDP. There is plenty of room to slim down.

This isn't a good analogy to use considering that WWI was nearly a century ago and the world was a very different place back then. It's not that cut and dried. I agree there is room to slim down, but simply reducing taxation and spending for everyone and everything isn't the answer. There are people far more brilliant than you or I trying to solve this problem. All I'm saying is that it's not as simple as you make it sound.

[slackin@dabass]

you wanna bring solid business to this state? eliminate taxes on businesses that do well. hilary wanted to tax the hell out of exxon-mobile for having record high profits. what? people ran the business well, they had alot of people buy their product, so let's make them pay for it? that makes no sense. i just do not see the democrat's point of view on this.

bar x has two bands on two nights. band "a" earns 1000 dollars at the door. band "b" brings in 800 bucks at the door. bar x now charges band "a" 500 dollars for use of the venue, and charges band "b" $100. fair? i think not.

that is how i understand the democrat's line of thinking. maybe i'm wrong. i know the libertarian way of running bar x is to not charge anything for the use of the venue. and the republican way is to charge the band that did worse more, but they get both bands involved in a turf war with the beer distributor. maybe i'm just wrong?

[Roar chick]

I agree with Dark Soul, it’s just not as simple as you are trying to make it out to be. It took this country a long time to get this bad and will take just as long to fix.

We need less Democrats and republicans and more independents.

[Roar chick]

If bar x was our government, with the same problems and conditions, both band a and b would stopped playing there years ago. No one would have put up with that shit!

[Hawk]

Obama said he wants to give tax breaks to those corporations (per person) who put Americans to work in America.

More tax cuts.

[Dark Soul]

(I would like to apologize in advance for the rant I'm about to go on. I just feel very strongly about this and, hey...what are public forums for? )

Something just occurred to me that I think I should point out...

One of the wonderful things about our Constitution (yea, you're damn right I capitalized that! ) is that it leaves room for and in fact implies the very probability that the system is imperfect and will probably need changed (though not fundamentally) from time to time. All this talk about taxing and spending made me think of that just now.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the rich should be made to pay most of the taxes all the time. In an ideal world, I would hope that one relatively low flat percentage for everyone would work just fine. But the US has been having money problems for a long time now, and nothing infuriates me more than reading about rich people blowing mounds of cash on things they don't even need when many of their fellow Americans can't even afford health insurance!

I remember seeing a news article once that Jennifer Lopez (if I recall correctly) either bought for herself or was given a diamond ring that came to four million dollars! More recently I read that Jay-Z bought Beyonce' a ring with a five million dollar rock on it!

Feeling sick yet? If not, here's a few more mind-bogglers for ya:

Liza Minnelli reportedly spent $4 million on her 2002 wedding to music producer David Gest.

Singer Mariah Carey owns a penthouse worth $9 million, which reportedly contains 500 pairs of high heels.

Kate Hudson reportedly owns a pair of $30,000 pajamas.

Madonna once bought a pair of diamond-encrusted false eyelashes. Price: $10,000. She also reportedly spends $10,000 every month on specially blessed Kabbalah water. That's $120,000 a year...for WATER!!!

And here's my favorite...

On the TV documentary "Living With Michael Jackson", wacko Jacko blew a whopping (hope you're sitting down) $6,000,000 in a matter of hours on a single shopping spree!


Why is the country having so many problems? Why are we paying through the nose for gas? Why does the "trickle down" plan not work? Because people are !?@#$! greedy bastards...that's why.

*heavy sigh*

Okay...I'm done.

[slackin@dabass]

(I would like to apologize in advance for the rant I'm about to go on. I just feel very strongly about this and, hey...what are public forums for? )

Something just occurred to me that I think I should point out...

One of the wonderful things about our Constitution (yea, you're damn right I capitalized that! ) is that it leaves room for and in fact implies the very probability that the system is imperfect and will probably need changed (though not fundamentally) from time to time. All this talk about taxing and spending made me think of that just now.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the rich should be made to pay most of the taxes all the time. In an ideal world, I would hope that one relatively low flat percentage for everyone would work just fine. But the US has been having money problems for a long time now, and nothing infuriates me more than reading about rich people blowing mounds of cash on things they don't even need when many of their fellow Americans can't even afford health insurance!

I remember seeing a news article once that Jennifer Lopez (if I recall correctly) either bought for herself or was given a diamond ring that came to four million dollars! More recently I read that Jay-Z bought Beyonce' a ring with a five million dollar rock on it!

Feeling sick yet? If not, here's a few more mind-bogglers for ya:

Liza Minnelli reportedly spent $4 million on her 2002 wedding to music producer David Gest.

Singer Mariah Carey owns a penthouse worth $9 million, which reportedly contains 500 pairs of high heels.

Kate Hudson reportedly owns a pair of $30,000 pajamas.

Madonna once bought a pair of diamond-encrusted false eyelashes. Price: $10,000. She also reportedly spends $10,000 every month on specially blessed Kabbalah water. That's $120,000 a year...for WATER!!!

And here's my favorite...

On the TV documentary "Living With Michael Jackson", wacko Jacko blew a whopping (hope you're sitting down) $6,000,000 in a matter of hours on a single shopping spree!


Why is the country having so many problems? Why are we paying through the nose for gas? Why does the "trickle down" plan not work? Because people are !?@#$! greedy bastards...that's why.

*heavy sigh*

Okay...I'm done.

tiger woods makes 80.3 million. it's not just movie stars and pop stars, it's all the sports players too. tax those bastards more, why not, in fact, just charge them to be in their movies, or play ball, or write songs, i'm sure the money they were going to be paid for that next hit would float into your pocket somewhere

[Dark Soul]

tiger woods makes 80.3 million. it's not just movie stars and pop stars, it's all the sports players too. tax those bastards more, why not, in fact, just charge them to be in their movies, or play ball, or write songs, i'm sure the money they were going to be paid for that next hit would float into your pocket somewhere

Oh, hell yes. Athletes get paid WAY too much. Especially 'Tiger'...ugh...

I love what the immortal George Carlin had to say about golf:

"You ever watch golf on TV? It’s like watching flies f*ck. I get more excited picking out socks. Think of the intelligence it takes to play golf: hitting a ball with a crooked stick...and then, walking after it. And THEN, hitting it AGAIN! I say, you’re lucky you found it, asshole! Pick it up and go the f*ck HOME!"

[metalchurch]

LOL!!

I miss George!

[Dark Soul]

Yeah, me too. I've been a fan of Mr. Carlin since I was about 12. I was really sorry to see him go. But he left a ton of awesome material behind him.