Politics you SHOULD be talking about

[ToonaRockGuy]

Okay, all you Rockpage pundits. Sorry, but I'm sick of hearing everyone whine about McCain and Obama. If you guys spent one-eighth of your Presidential Election energy debating something that actually mattered, maybe you'd make an impact.

Here...try this...it has a lot more relevance to you than the Presidential Elections, yet nobody here has spoken about it. Blair County is FUBAR. Read ans discuss.

http://altoonamirror.com/page/content.d ... ml?nav=742

http://altoonamirror.com/page/content.d ... ml?nav=742

[Hawk]

I don't have time to read each article right now. I am aware that the county has to make big cuts.

But why ? Is it because they have been wasting their money all these years. I don't think so. I don't think county employees are overpaid. Nor is there a lot of wasteful spending.

I'd like to know how much state funding has been cut. So it does come down to taxes at the state and federal level.

Spread the wealth are three bad words, but it is a necessity. There are rich states and poor states. Rich countries and poor countries. Rich cities and poor cities.

In order to keep the poor counties and cities going we need federal tax dollars to trickle down to us to keep our local police, judicial system and necessary local government projects going - or we could go in to a deficit that we could not get out of.

If the poor cities and counties die and the rich cities get richer, everyone would move there. Overcrowding those cities with people looking for jobs would then put an excess burden on those rich cities and lead to their collapse (One of the causes of the fall of Rome).

So, it does all lead back to the presidential race. McCain will spend with no way to pay for it, leading to more deficit. Last night he said he will freeze federal spending and take a hatchet to spending. That directly is telling YOU that you can count on LESS federal money trickling in to the county for many county necessities.

Obama will increase taxes to the people making more than 1/4 Million Dollars. And cut taxes to those who make less then that. So he is at least going to find a way to pay, rather than continue the Bush policies. Spend but don't pay .

No one likes taxes, but there are people who can afford to pay more. If you make more than 1/4 Million, I think you can afford a 3% increase.

[lonewolf]

Why does Pennsylvania suck for industry? Because Harrisburg believes we can tax ourselves into prosperity.

At 9.9%, Pennsylvania has the highest corporate tax rate of any state in the Republic*:

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/corp_inc.html

What corporation would want to set up shop here in sunny central PA?

No big business, no quality employment, no local tax revenues.

'nuff said

*Iowa has a higher rate at the top end of their bracket system.

[Hawk]

Why does Pennsylvania suck for industry? Because Harrisburg believes we can tax ourselves into prosperity.

At 9.9%, Pennsylvania has the highest corporate tax rate of any state in the Republic*:

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/corp_inc.html

What corporation would want to set up shop here in sunny central PA?

No big business, no quality employment, no local tax revenues.

'nuff said

*Iowa has a higher rate at the top end of their bracket system.

I agree that if life sustaining jobs are brought to PA, of if they are already providing jobs that pay enough to support a family - taxes need to be cut for them. And those cuts should be permanent.
If more retail stores come here with more minimum wadge jobs - no tax breaks for them.

That is another point of Obama's. If a corporation provides jobs here in the USA they will qualify for tax credits. If corporations are providing jobs for foreign countries - no tax credits.

[Lisa]

There are ways that local governments can raise funds themselves without raising their tax base. Some items such as a local police force can issue tickets according to the local, state and federal laws and a percentage of the money collected goes towards funding of such police force. Create new jobs in the area also increases revenue by increasing the tax base. However, as it was pointed out, if you have a high tax rate for businesses, they will not settle in the area. Get the work force in place and you will see an increase. But another item is....if I started doing well financially in life, would I want to have pay higher taxes or would I rather use that money and put it towards starting a new business with employees?

If I make $250,000 under the current tax rates for 2008, I would pay $68,251. If I only make $200,000, $51,751 is what I pay. So, that means for the extra $50,000 a year, I'm paying an extra $16,500 in taxes. That's 33% of my hard work that I kiss away. So, now if you increase that tax rate for me working hard and making $250,000, you think I will want to really do this? (BTW, this is just working with the federal taxes...work in to this the state and local)

You have to build the local economy first by allowing those who have the money to do so to build the businesses and work force. You do that, you have more people who build homes and pay real estate taxes. You have people who shop in the local stores. You have more small businesses that provide services such as hair dressers, day care, etc. You have more restaurants and stores so that increases the sales tax base.

You have to be concerned with the local community.

[Lisa]

Why does Pennsylvania suck for industry? Because Harrisburg believes we can tax ourselves into prosperity.

At 9.9%, Pennsylvania has the highest corporate tax rate of any state in the Republic*:

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/corp_inc.html

What corporation would want to set up shop here in sunny central PA?

No big business, no quality employment, no local tax revenues.

'nuff said

*Iowa has a higher rate at the top end of their bracket system.

I agree that if life sustaining jobs are brought to PA, of if they are already providing jobs that pay enough to support a family - taxes need to be cut for them. And those cuts should be permanent.
If more retail stores come here with more minimum wadge jobs - no tax breaks for them.

Soooo....because we pay min. wage we suffer higher tax burdens? Why would any one want to try to own their own business?

In the past 8 years, the state income has decreased. The unemployment rate is higher. What one major thing happened that may have caused this? Higher min. wage. Small businesses can not afford to pay these wages. I'm not talking about not paying someone who went out and got a higher education and who has been in the work force for years what they are worth. I'm talking entry level jobs. Jobs that teenagers or college students may do to help obtain funds to help pay for their education and living expenses. Not jobs that are meant to supply a family income. Most people who are raising a family have been in the work force awhile and have work skills and/or educational credits that allow them to get a higher paying job.

Don't penalize the small business owner. I bet that walmart does start their employees higher than min. wage so you aren't going to penalize them at all.

[Hawk]

Lisa,

If you are making under $250,000 Obama will give you a tax break.

If you are in the 5% of small businesses where you make over that, your taxes will increase because you can afford it.

I'd like to know where you got those numbers ?

You are saying, lets continue the deficit and pass it on to the next generation. Obama is saying, let's start being responsible and pay our bills. Si we have to tax the ones who can afford it - those who make over 1/4 million.

So under Obama you will get a tax break, just like you NEED.

Pennsylvania need to attract life sustaining jobs ASAP. So give anyone who can bring those jobs a tax break.

The amount of people who want to bring in minimum wage jobs and make the owners over 1/4 million would be minuscule.

[JackANSI]

That is another point of Obama's. If a corporation provides jobs here in the USA they will qualify for tax credits. If corporations are providing jobs for foreign countries - no tax credits.

You do know that is just another form of import/export tarrif right?

Local and State taxes are only a small part of the problem. We are over taxed from the federal level on personal income.

I'm sick of seeing 1/2 a car payment being taken out of each one of my paychecks going to a program that will be bankrupt by the time I'll get to use it. (SocSec) Just an example. I could invest that much better in the local economy.

But for as much as I bitch about taxes... It sickens me that anyone who makes more than the average person as any f'in right to complain about taxes. At $200,000 a year you still are pulling in more 'take-home' than the average person, a good bit more. You also have so many more tax loopholes available to you at that level, most use them. The 'Richie Riches' are part of the problem we have right now...



This whole problem in the economy stems from the unequal distribution of wealth. 'Rich' people went and got everything they wanted while the getting was good. 'Poor' people went and got everything they wanted while the getting was good. Only difference, the poor people made the move with credit and there is a lot more of them. This produced a huge pocket of credit, thats not real money for the lenders till its paid back no matter what you read in economics 101.

There are fewer 'rich' people comparatively, so once they were satisfied with their purchases, they went back to what 'rich' people do. Save extra money. They took home the extra profits reaped from the back of their laborers and invested it in the markets instead of investing it in their laborers.

Joe Sixpack facing increasing costs with the same paycheck had to make cuts. But you can only cut so far. Instead of a new fridge, he buys just the parts needed to fix his old one. Instead of a new car, he buys a used one. Instead of going out for a fancy dinner, he stays home. Entertainment budget goes out the window. There are far more Joe Sixpacks, so the economy starts to look shaky, there isn't enough growth.

Fast forward a year and few months and you start to see real signs that its not seasonal. So 'Richie Rich' gets nervous and pulls the trigger on his fancy new E-Trade account (or broker) to move him to a more 'stable' market. This in turn upsets a very delicate balance that was made on the head of Joe Sixpack. He gets nervous and looks to his 401K just in time to see the bottom drop out. So he figures he better tighten his belt a lot more.

Enter the negative feedback loop. There will be massive swings in the market for the next few years because of it. Some lasting months, some days. 'Richie Rich' won't be concerned. When it comes to tightening the belt its not a matter of what goods he won't buy, its a matter of who he lays off more than anything right now. Hoarde that wealth is all he's thinking. Besides someone HAD to have walked off with all that 401K money when the market went south, right?

You'll get a few little spurts of sunshine when 'Richie Rich's' fridge breaks down in 3-4 years, or he needs repairs to his roof in 7.

Thats the only good thing about all those expensive houses going up nearly at once. They were built piss poor and should all leak/break/be renovated just about the same time, especially when they are empty for so long. If not it turns into cheap housing causing a little boom in certain areas.

Anyway..
When it comes to taxes, the most unpopular and most effective one to help right now is a flat one. No loopholes, no credits, nothing. You take money out of the economy you pay the tax on it. People don't like the fact that if you make money, you should pay the government for providing an environment (no home-soil wars, etc) that made it possible.

[Hawk]

Also Lisa,

If we had more good paying jobs than we do now, you would be busier.

We already have an overflow of minimum wage jobs. If we increased our work force with good paying jobs. Everyone would benefit.

The overflowing minimum wage jobs in Altoona Area has not done much for our community.

If people have a company that makes over 1/4 million and pays life sustaining wages, they should aslo get tax breaks from the state.

Obama also said if corporations put jobs in the USA instead of on foreign soil - they would get tax credits.

[Hawk]

That is another point of Obama's. If a corporation provides jobs here in the USA they will qualify for tax credits. If corporations are providing jobs for foreign countries - no tax credits.

You do know that is just another form of import/export tarrif right?

Local and State taxes are only a small part of the problem. We are over taxed from the federal level on personal income.

I'm sick of seeing 1/2 a car payment being taken out of each one of my paychecks going to a program that will be bankrupt by the time I'll get to use it. (SocSec) Just an example. I could invest that much better in the local economy.

But for as much as I bitch about taxes... It sickens me that anyone who makes more than the average person as any f'in right to complain about taxes. At $200,000 a year you still are pulling in more 'take-home' than the average person, a good bit more. You also have so many more tax loopholes available to you at that level, most use them. The 'Richie Riches' are part of the problem we have right now...



This whole problem in the economy stems from the unequal distribution of wealth. 'Rich' people went and got everything they wanted while the getting was good. 'Poor' people went and got everything they wanted while the getting was good. Only difference, the poor people made the move with credit and there is a lot more of them. This produced a huge pocket of credit, thats not real money for the lenders till its paid back no matter what you read in economics 101.

There are fewer 'rich' people comparatively, so once they were satisfied with their purchases, they went back to what 'rich' people do. Save extra money. They took home the extra profits reaped from the back of their laborers and invested it in the markets instead of investing it in their laborers.

Joe Sixpack facing increasing costs with the same paycheck had to make cuts. But you can only cut so far. Instead of a new fridge, he buys just the parts needed to fix his old one. Instead of a new car, he buys a used one. Instead of going out for a fancy dinner, he stays home. Entertainment budget goes out the window. There are far more Joe Sixpacks, so the economy starts to look shaky, there isn't enough growth.

Fast forward a year and few months and you start to see real signs that its not seasonal. So 'Richie Rich' gets nervous and pulls the trigger on his fancy new E-Trade account (or broker) to move him to a more 'stable' market. This in turn upsets a very delicate balance that was made on the head of Joe Sixpack. He gets nervous and looks to his 401K just in time to see the bottom drop out. So he figures he better tighten his belt a lot more.

Enter the negative feedback loop. There will be massive swings in the market for the next few years because of it. Some lasting months, some days. 'Richie Rich' won't be concerned. When it comes to tightening the belt its not a matter of what goods he won't buy, its a matter of who he lays off more than anything right now. Hoarde that wealth is all he's thinking. Besides someone HAD to have walked off with all that 401K money when the market went south, right?

You'll get a few little spurts of sunshine when 'Richie Rich's' fridge breaks down in 3-4 years, or he needs repairs to his roof in 7.

Thats the only good thing about all those expensive houses going up nearly at once. They were built piss poor and should all leak/break/be renovated just about the same time, especially when they are empty for so long. If not it turns into cheap housing causing a little boom in certain areas.

Anyway..
When it comes to taxes, the most unpopular and most effective one to help right now is a flat one. No loopholes, no credits, nothing. You take money out of the economy you pay the tax on it. People don't like the fact that if you make money, you should pay the government for providing an environment (no home-soil wars, etc) that made it possible.

You will never see a flat tax as you describe.

Obama's is fair and taxes those who CAN afford it. And cuts taxes to those who need a cut.

[JackANSI]

You will never see a flat tax as you describe.

Obama's is fair and taxes those who CAN afford it. And cuts taxes to those who need a cut.

I know.. but I wish..

Obama's tax plan is ok.. But I make less than $250,000 but they don't apply to me. I'm not married, I have no kids, and I don't own my own business. If any two of those applies to you too, it won't help you either.

I'm just sick of being shafted for being responsible and NOT getting married and/or knocking the beetch up without being totally sure its the right thing to do.

I hate the 'single and responsible' tax.

I still have not found an industry that appeals to me in a long enough term for me to start a business in it. Thats my fault. I have career ADD at times

Oh yeah before you go off on all that.. remember I think Obama's tax plan is the best we can possibly get right now.

[lonewolf]

That is another point of Obama's. If a corporation provides jobs here in the USA they will qualify for tax credits. If corporations are providing jobs for foreign countries - no tax credits.

I think you'd better ask Barack's boss, Harry Reid about that first. It doesn't matter what rhetoric comes out of Obama's mouth, if Harry and Nancy don't agree with it, it ain't gonna happen.

Bill, if you recall, I came up with this idea in a thread long before Obama.

Unfortunately, Pennsylvania would not reap the benefits under such a plan because of the confiscatory state corporate tax rate.

Except for D.C. (of course) and the top tax bracket in Iowa, corporations based in PA making over $100,000 per year are

taxed at the highest rate in the developed world.

Think about that for a moment.

[lonewolf]

Lisa,

If you are making under $250,000 Obama will give you a tax break.

Obama's is fair and taxes those who CAN afford it. And cuts taxes to those who need a cut.

Obama will tax whatever Harry & Nancy decides he will tax.

[lonewolf]

This whole problem in the economy stems from the unequal distribution of wealth. 'Rich' people went and got everything they wanted while the getting was good. 'Poor' people went and got everything they wanted while the getting was good. Only difference, the poor people made the move with credit and there is a lot more of them. This produced a huge pocket of credit, thats not real money for the lenders till its paid back no matter what you read in economics 101.

Actually, for most people around central PA, its Econ 4.

You will read all about wealth distribution in PSU's Econ 424...or economics 101 if a guy named Marx is teaching it.

[songsmith]

Obama will tax whatever Harry & Nancy decides he will tax.

...Unlike our current situation, where Bush does whatever Dick Cheney and company decide. ------->JMS

[lonewolf]

Obama will tax whatever Harry & Nancy decides he will tax.

...Unlike our current situation, where Bush does whatever Dick Cheney and company decide. ------->JMS

With one huge difference: Cheney can't legislate anything.

[bassist_25]

I bet that walmart does start their employees higher than min. wage so you aren't going to penalize them at all.

If I remember correctly, Walmart starts a few cents about min. wage. Can anyone back me up here? Kevin? It also doesn't help that the Walmart hiring and training procedure is one long captive audience speech to make sure that everyone knows that unions = bad, and you shouldn't bargain for a better wage and better working conditions.

But Jeff is right, the tax situation in PA makes it very difficult for a lot of businesses to come here. Our state does seem to be in the crapper. It doesn't help that Reindell is probably one of the biggest doofuses to ever hold a governorship.

On a related note of bitching about local politics...About two years ago, the township where my parents lived decided to make a lot of money off of the people by forcing them to join a sewer system. Everyone in town had septic tanks, which worked fine. Instead, a bunch of greedy politicians and contractors decided to squeeze every sent they could out of an already poor town. The best part is that every household had to pay to had their yards dug up and the line put in. On average, it costs about a grand, even more if you lived further from the road. It pisses me off the more I think about it.

[JackANSI]

Actually, for most people around central PA, its Econ 4.

You will read all about wealth distribution in PSU's Econ 424...or economics 101 if a guy named Marx is teaching it.

Well it should be 101. A few people spending irregularly is not the same as a large mass spending regularly. Isn't that common sense?

[Hawk]

Lisa, please take the time to read this.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbu ... /index.htm

Fewer than 2% of small business would have their taxes increased. Many would have their taxes decreased.

[Banned]

70% of new jobs come from small businesses (less than 10 employees) and most of these businesses are owned by people who file as individuals with income (do not incorporate).

So Obama will want to punish these small business owners with higher taxes to "SPREAD THE WEALTH". How are they going to help the country by hiring new employees (remember they hire 70% of new employees) if their taxes are going to go up???


SPREAD THE WEALTH = Socialism. Can anyone now deny Obama is not a socialist now.

And CNN sources are not objective.

[Hawk]

70% of new jobs come from small businesses (less than 10 employees) and most of these businesses are owned by people who file as individuals with income (do not incorporate).

So Obama will want to punish these small business owners with higher taxes to "SPREAD THE WEALTH". How are they going to help the country by hiring new employees (remember they hire 70% of new employees) if their taxes are going to go up???


SPREAD THE WEALTH = Socialism. Can anyone now deny Obama is not a socialist now.

And CNN sources are not objective.

What is your source please ?

Give EVERYONE $5,000 for heath insurance = Socialism.

See post above yours. Please.

[Hawk]

70% of new jobs come from small businesses (less than 10 employees) and most of these businesses are owned by people who file as individuals with income (do not incorporate).

So Obama will want to punish these small business owners with higher taxes to "SPREAD THE WEALTH". How are they going to help the country by hiring new employees (remember they hire 70% of new employees) if their taxes are going to go up???


SPREAD THE WEALTH = Socialism. Can anyone now deny Obama is not a socialist now.

And CNN sources are not objective.

Joe, here is the fact. If his NET income is under 1/4 million his taxes will go down.

If his NET income is over 1/4 million it will go up 3%.

[Banned]

"Spread the wealth" = socialism.

[slackin@dabass]

i love PA. but how can you guys talk about Pa and still bring up whether or not obama or mccain are better for president? i hate politics.

[Hawk]

i love PA. but how can you guys talk about Pa and still bring up whether or not obama or mccain are better for president? i hate politics.

Like I said. Our small town / county would die without money trickling down from state and federal taxes. Apparently this would be Joe's wish.

Joe, since you are an authority on socialism and capitalism, would you explain pure Marxist socialism.

And then compare it to the present day USA economy. And what percentage of our economy is socialism.

I thought socialism was not about spreading the wealth. But everyone got equal pay, no matter what job they had. There is no spreading of wealth.

Yet liberal Democrats are pro union and vice versa. That is very capitalistic.