The Noise Gestapo Strikes Again!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Jul 20, 2004

Vinny,

If rejected by the LCB, there will be a next step, even the Almighty LCB must be answerable to some elected official or other, we are, still, in America after all.

Yep...that would be Governor Rendell

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Jul 21, 2004

Here is my preliminary draft of a new rule:

Replace:

A licensee may not use or permit to be used inside or outside of the licensed premises a loudspeaker or similar device whereby the sound of music or other entertainment, or the advertisement thereof, can be heard on the outside of the licensed premises.

With:

A licensee may not use or permit to be used inside or outside of the licensed premises a loudspeaker or similar device whereby the sound of music or other entertainment, or the advertisement thereof produces a sound pressure level which exceeds 62 decibels when measured at or beyond the property line of the licensed premises.

Measurements are taken as specified in the American National Standards Institute specifications for sound level meters (ANSI SI 4-1971, or the latest approved revision thereof) using frequency weighting type A and using a device or devices which meets or exceeds the requirements for an ANSI Type SIA or Type S2A Sound Level Meter.

I'm not completely satisfied with the wording in the 2nd paragraph, but its close to what we need. Pick it apart if you like.....

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Jul 21, 2004

I think we should start a new thread under "THE LAW" and devote it specifically for writing:

1. the rule
2. legal justification for amending the old rule
3. the petition.

What do you all think?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Jul 22, 2004

At this point, I'm satisfied with the wording of the amended rule as changed about 30 times. Anybody interested in this topic should take a look and see if there is a loophole that needs plugged or if something just doesn't look right.

This is under THE LAW: Proposed Amendment to PA Code Title 40 S5.32(a) Noise Rule

http://rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3777

If it looks OK and nobody objects to it, that's all we would need to put on a petition signature page and run with it. Of course, it would be prudent (gotta love that word) to get all the owners on board and run it by a lawyer first.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Saturday Jul 24, 2004

Hey!!! Are we still pursuing this? There hasn't been a post about it for days. I put together a strong legal case for changing the rule and I like the rule as written. The legal support for the rule is not so demanding as the case for changing it. If I can find any case law that supports the change, I will add it. It doesn't look like anybody has contested a noise law for private property that has precise definitions. That is pretty good support.

Anyway, everybody interested in this, take a look under "The Law" and make suggestions, tear it up, love it, hate it, or whatever else you can think of.

By the way Big John, if you can appeal this regulation to a high enough court, that is probably a strong enough legal case to get your citation thrown out and the rule struck down. Ask your lawyer about it.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

So what needs to happen next?

getclosertothemusic · Post by **getclosertothemusic** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

WARNING !

Attention All Musicians.......

If This Matter Continues
All of music in general will be illegal and everyone will be fined heavly...
Do You Doubt this ?
Think again... They said World Trade Buildings And "911" was never
suppose to happen either but it did and we have a travisty on our hands.

If we the musicians of this FREE land do not act NOW... WE"RE NEXT !

ANY QUESTIONS>>>>>>>>

SAVE MUSIC NOW BEFORE ITS TO LATE

ED MURVINE

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

tonefight wrote:So what needs to happen next?

Good question Tony.

First of all, we need to be in concensus on this thing. Is this what we want to present to the LCB? Is there anything we can add to make it better?

To proceed, we have to make sure that:

1. The rule is in its final form.
2. The petition signature sheet is in its final form.

Once these are satisfied, I can post the petition in various e-formats like Word and Acrobat for people to print out and go get signatures. Its important that people only sign ONCE. I'll add a warning on the petition sheet.

I really think that we need to get the bar owners on board as soon as possible. We musicians can do a lot of the leg work, but ultimately, the licensees should to be the ones to petition the LCB. If they aren't backing this thing, it won't fly.

getclosertothemusic · Post by **getclosertothemusic** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

Please let us know when and where this petition is to print or sign or whatever, we know alot of people as well that we can get to sign also. We are definately here to do our part to keep music alive and for all of us musicians to be able to enjoy what we do as well as get our youth involved.

Thanks

Cathy

paxposure · Post by **paxposure** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

PaXposure and Xposure radio is here for anything that is needed in organizing this. We will do anything asked of us to help out. Our reach is a bit more state wide, maybe we could help in touching a more spread out area.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

We need somebody or some organization to be the focal point of this project. There needs to be a central address and phone number where people can send signatures and get information.

I am happy to help in getting the legal documentation together, advising, and getting signatures, but my schedule and personal situation makes me a poor choice as a focal point. An organization would be better suited for that. An organization made up of licensees would be the best of all possible worlds.

Is anybody interested? Does anybody have suggestions?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

paxposure wrote:PaXposure and Xposure radio is here for anything that is needed in organizing this. We will do anything asked of us to help out. Our reach is a bit more state wide, maybe we could help in touching a more spread out area.

Perhaps you are just the organization we need to tie this whole thing together?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

getclosertothemusic wrote:Please let us know when and where this petition is to print or sign or whatever, we know alot of people as well that we can get to sign also. We are definately here to do our part to keep music alive and for all of us musicians to be able to enjoy what we do as well as get our youth involved.

Thanks

Cathy

Thank YOU! Once we have a concensus on the proposed rule and the petition signature format, I'll make sure the petition signature form is posted in .pdf format with a link to it. We also need to establish an address to send the signed petition forms.

getclosertothemusic · Post by **getclosertothemusic** » Sunday Jul 25, 2004

I am offering my home address to you for this purpose. We need to start standing up for OUR rights too. I've heard enough on this subject, its time for everyone to step up to the plate and do SOMETHING, everyone on here has put in the ideas and what we should do, now we need everyone to just do it. NO EXCUSES!!!!! PM me for contact information!!!! Lets just see how many people are serious about this.

Cathy

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Monday Jul 26, 2004

The next step is to start or identify a musicians' organization complete with address and phone number that will sponsor this effort.

Cathy has offered her full support to get things rolling.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Jul 26, 2004

Is there something formal that needs to be done to be an official organization, once again it probably requires a leader of some sort

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Monday Aug 02, 2004

It looks like the legal aspects are as far as we can take it. Its time for all interested parties to find or form an organization, set up an address, etc.

Go on over to the "THE LAW" and check it out.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Aug 11, 2004

As Ron announced, the .pdf of the signature petition is posted for downloading as a "sticky" under "THE LAW":

http://rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3889

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Wednesday Aug 11, 2004

Can the petition be signed electronically?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Aug 11, 2004

witchhunt wrote:Can the petition be signed electronically?

No. The idea is to download the .pdf, print it out and get signatures.

When done getting signatures, they should be mailed back to an address that has not been determined yet. All I can tell you about that is that it is not my address.

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Wednesday Aug 11, 2004

It would be awesome if this is ready for the Rockpage Jam this Sunday & End-of-Summer Jam the following weekend, so we could all sign it AND also have a list to sign for those who want to be actively involved in the organization. If the final version is not ready, let's at least get names, phone numbers, etc. to contact to have a sit-down meeting or two so we have a united front when everything is ready. Get 'er done!!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Aug 12, 2004

Big Jim wrote:It would be awesome if this is ready for the Rockpage Jam this Sunday & End-of-Summer Jam the following weekend, so we could all sign it AND also have a list to sign for those who want to be actively involved in the organization. If the final version is not ready, let's at least get names, phone numbers, etc. to contact to have a sit-down meeting or two so we have a united front when everything is ready. Get 'er done!!

If:

1. The proposed rule is in its final form and "cast in concrete"

and

2. The PDF file "signature petition" is in its final form and "cast in concrete"

then

As far as I'm concerned, we are ready to get signatures.

The final document with the preamble and legal issues doesn't need to be in its final form until we are ready to present it. We just can't change the proposed rule, or the signatures will be moot.

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Thursday Aug 12, 2004

Let's get er done

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Thursday Aug 12, 2004

Just another though on this, is it too late or even possible to have the stipulation that there must be a complaint for any kind of violation to take place?

In other words bar X out in the boonies not bothering any body doesn't get a fine just because someone feels like giving them one.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Friday Aug 13, 2004

tonefight wrote:Just another though on this, is it too late or even possible to have the stipulation that there must be a complaint for any kind of violation to take place?

In other words bar X out in the boonies not bothering any body doesn't get a fine just because someone feels like giving them one.

I thought about this, but when I started digging, I couldn't find a precedent for it. Its a good idea and really makes sense. Why would you want to bust somebody who is not offending anybody?

This will be an uphill battle to start with, and I wanted to avoid getting too specific or lengthy with the rule. If there are others who support this suggestion, they should speak up now, because I think the concensus is that we're ready to go with what we've got.

ROCKPAGE

The Noise Gestapo Strikes Again!

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