Do you tell a band....

[Lisa]

that you think their myspace music sucks? Seriously...we often get contacted by bands who want us to book them. They do not do their homework first off or they would know that we basically stick with 80's, 90's, classic and pop. Sorry...its a waste of time for the band and us to book metal. We just don't seem to get the crowd and end up feeling bad because the bands take from the door is crap after they do all of that work.

Anyway...so they direct me to their myspace site to hear their music. Quality matters folks. If you can't get a good sound from myspace, send me a demo cd.

Some bands contact us over and over and over. I get tired of responding to the same ones sometimes. For the most part though, I have to give a lot of bands here credit...they are very professional in their contacts.

My advice boils down to this

1 - Know the venue. Do they book all genres? Or do they do just metal? Or country? etc.

2 - If directing them to a website to hear your sound, make sure its good. If not, send them a cd. If its still not good, practice some more.

3 - Email or message online such as myspace is usually a good way to contact them...the first time. If you don't hear anything, call. Don't keep sending messages. When calling, don't call during busy times such as a night when they have another band booked.

4 - If you really want to make contact, call and find out when the person you need to speak with is available and stop in. That face to face is great. Not only do you meet us, we meet you and you get to see the place. You would then have the opportunity to see what equipment you may or may not want to bring.

Another tip I can throw in there....if you are playing nearby and the fans mention our place...tell them to speak to us about it! We love to hear from your fans as much as you do. You get 20 people coming in tell us you are a great band is so much better than you sending us 20 emails stating that.

If you want to come back, some things to consider...its always nice when the bands take an interest in our place. They don't leave a bunch of trash behind where they were set up at...don't bring drinks in from the outside unless you are really into something we don't carry (non-alcoholic types of course). We don't let our customers do that...to me its rude for band members to bring in gatorade when they could help us out by buying it from us...or red bull. Let our customers know that you are into them...they are the ones that are paying you and ringing in our register. Socialize with them...they will love you for it and will tell us how great you were to them....it really does work. Plus, you socialize with them, they tend to buy your drinks. Oh speaking of drinks, when a venue gives you drink tickets, use them yourself. Don't give them to the customers. We count on them paying for their own drinks.

Ok...don't know why I felt the need to type this today. Guess it was the crappy myspace site I was just on.

[metalchurch]

Awesome post Lisa, very professional and unbiased. It is worded very nice also.
PS metal rules didnt ya know?

[Lisa]

Awesome post Lisa, very professional and unbiased. It is worded very nice also.
PS metal rules didnt ya know?

Well, I think there are some very good metal bands out there.....for some reason though, they just don't draw a crowd at our place.

[DirtySanchez]

To answer the question........I say sure. why not? I don't know if I'd use the word "sucks", but yeah, let them know if the recording was hard to hear/poor quality, or if you couldn't read the words because of the background. Sometimes it takes 2 days to load because there are 22 videos on it. Some may thank you. Some may tell you to take a long walk off of a short plank. If you're not at all interested in the band and they won't get the hint though. That should send the message.

On another note: If I drank Gatorade or red bull I'd bring my own from home. Bars usually don't carry gatorade and charge an arm and a leg for red bull. The band is not your customer, they are your employee. If anything you are their customer. I'm allowed to bring my own lunch to work at my day job too. As far as the drink tickets thing. Why not just stamp the band members hands?

[metalchurch]

Metal is a genre made up of too many different styles and sub genres and yeah it can and is very hard to sell.
It's also technical and very hard to play and if the band don't got it, it definitely shows. Not many cover bands can pull it off convincingly, and it's even more difficult for original metal.
Hell, I cant even get an original metal band together, I could only imagine that the crowd would be just as sparce.

I say as a bar owner, continue to book what sells, because there seems to be a formula that your patrons prefer and they continue their business with you for a reason.
It sucks to be that way, but it's a business and you have bills to pay.

I'd imagine it would be hard to have a diverse entertainment by having different styles of bands on a week to week basis.

Some clubs thrive on it however. It may be due to location or the overall change of crowd with not many 'regular' drinkers?

PLCB and the non smoking thing is another factor I'd guess also?

It's a shame that metal isn't more accepted, coming from a personal love for the music and being a guitar player of that style. And I constantly wish for a venue to concentrate on that genre so metal bands have a consistent place to play.

But in this business you have to go where the money is and for some reason some styles dont draw. You seem to have a great outlook and a good instinct on how to run your business.
You make very good points also, like bands who sell themselves have to stop and take a look at what they are selling no matter what they play. It has to appear and sound professional.
You know as well as I that 'professional talk' doesn't cut it, you have to have the goods also.

[songsmith]

I think it's okay to limit outside drinks and stuff. I'd pay more for my Gatorade at the bar if I knew they had it... drinks are what they sell, it'd be like bringing a Big Mac to Burger King. Not world-ending, but kinda negative at first glance.
That said, I'm a big believer in free soda for the band... not a fan of free booze at all, for anybody. Lots of times it's the cost that keeps people from making that leap from fun drunk to just... drunk. When negotiating price, I usually turn down free booze for the band, especially in lieu of more cash for the band.
I'm sure many of you really enjoy adult beverages while playing, but I'm sure I care less about your desire to tie one on, and more about having several extra dollars in my pocket (not to mention the effect the extra alcohol has on your playing). Obviously, one could say they play better after a few drinks, but those folks would also likely say they DRIVE better, too, and we all know how ludicrous that is.

As for telling a band they suck, I've done it, and it just made ME look bad. I'd simply tell the band they're not what you're looking for, but keep up the good work, and get back to us if you take a more mainstream approach. People mature, even if they don't get it now, they will eventually, and you haven't been negative, so they'll keep you in mind, instead of smarting from your initial assessment.------->JMS

[FrigoRecording]

Do you tell a band... that you think their myspace music sucks?

Well I would definitely tell them. They need to know! Now I realize that with myspace, the audio stream is going to be compressed to 96 K, even if a band uploads 256 K mp3s. That's just what myspace does, and the high end in the mix will not be what it's supposed to be. Even so, you should be able to hear some clarity in the mixes off myspace and be able to discern the individual instruments, etc. Otherwise how can someone tell if a the band is together? I think from a venue's perspective, the audio quality off of myspace should suffice to get the point across as long as you have a decent mix, but the musical quality, from the songs and arrangements right through to how well the band plays needs to be right on.

If a band can't put together a demo where the band sounds tight, then they might want to consider working on it until they can, even if it means getting rid of members who can't pull it off. Playing in time and singing and playing on key are incredibly important to music, and all too often I hear bands with a drummer that just can't lock to a groove. If that's the case, consider a new drummer!

[slackin@dabass]

yea, i know when i go play at places, chances are, i'll have a gatorade in my hand when i walk through the door. nothing against the bar owners, but when you start carrying the grape tiger gatorade, i'll start buying it there. usually onstage, i drink water anyway. now, if i walk up to the bar and all the bar tenders are wearing slacker theory shirts, i'd be more than happy to pay for soda or ice tea!

[Lisa]

yea, i know when i go play at places, chances are, i'll have a gatorade in my hand when i walk through the door. nothing against the bar owners, but when you start carrying the grape tiger gatorade, i'll start buying it there. usually onstage, i drink water anyway. now, if i walk up to the bar and all the bar tenders are wearing slacker theory shirts, i'd be more than happy to pay for soda or ice tea!

If I had a slacker theory shirt, I would wear it.....and I want "Here's To You" on my ipod.

[JackANSI]

This thread is one of those that I would normally avoid. If you say the wrong thing and the right person is reading, you've just shot yourself in the toe. I'll also warn that this is actually something I feel quite strongly about.

Sure its nice to get a little income from the band, especially if they are taking the whole door. But your business should already be seeing a bump in customers if you've booked the right band for them. Milking the band too, is just rude in my opinion. Feel free to do it, most places do, but the places I like to play at and recommend people to visit often, don't. I know its not costing a bar $3 a shot and $2.50 a draft. Covering your costs is one thing, being a greedy @#$% is another.. In that case I would bring my own fluids next time.

That being said, it should be agreed upon before hand anyway, so I know how much $$ to bring. To me its not really a big deal. If we get treated with respect, I don't mind paying for my drinks at all, I've refused free and discounted drinks before when I got treated like I had a job to do, same as they do. I'm also sure I tip better than a majority of your regulars if I get treated well.

Only thing worse is having to pay full price and having to wait like just another Joe Sixpack. Call me a rockstar (whatever!) I do have a job to do there. Waiting for a bartender to make their round sucks, especially at a certain place I've played at (not Lisa's). Said place is a great place the play at, the crowd is cool, but that kind of treatment makes the night longer and my willingness to play there dry up. I even gave her a tip every time before then.

I guess the key for me is respect. If you don't have it for me, then you'll get the minimum respect from me. If the first time I play at a place, I buy drinks there, then the second time I don't, they obviously took advantage of me the first time. Or their glasses were dirty..

[Lisa]

This is why we do drink tickets for bands willing to play for the door. We give a drink ticket per hour per member. We do this because we do not feel that a band member who is thirsty needs to make their way to the bar and wait for a drink...send a girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse/groupy or all of them up with the drink ticket. Just don't use them to provide their drinks out of respect. Our drink tickets have been given a limit though...we had a band who spoiled that one...they would come up and want long island iced teas or some other expensive drink for their friends. So we do have it that its equal to a domestic beer bottle ($2.25). That includes most well drinks, sodas, drafts, etc.

And if a bartender doesn't cut the job (and its not the bar owner themselves) ya gotta let the owners know....

Anyway...I like this thread now...glad I got it started. I like the feedback from both sides. I guess I know a little more about the bringing their own drinks in now...but you can at least pick up your empties then

[DickShackBass]

Is it improper for the band to ask if there is a special for band members? We usually ask if there is, some places we already know have specials for the band, and some places seemed (to me at least) to be offended that we asked this.

[JackANSI]

And if a bartender doesn't cut the job (and its not the bar owner themselves) ya gotta let the owners know....

Actually I believe it was the owner.. the just-a-bartender person was quite quick on the draw for everyone.

but you can at least pick up your empties then

Word.

[lonewolf]

that you think their myspace music sucks?

Not necessary twice. All you need to tell them is that they don't suit your needs.

If twice rejected and they still call, it might be time to tell them that they suck.

[VENTGtr]

Having played at The Popper, I can say that the drink tickets are more than fair.
Other places do it as well, and I/we've never had an issue with it anywhere. As a
matter of fact, I can say that we've never had an issue with any place's "drink policy"
except in 2 cases.

One, we were, essentially, given the keys to the car...er'...bar. Anything we wanted;
food, drinks, a place to stay (I kid not), we were offered. Our only issue there was
that the owners, who are awesome people, were going to be taken advantage of badly
at some point and it can hurt them, and their perception of even having bands. Granted,
they're grown-ups, etc. but they're hugely accommodating and I can see something
negative coming of it. But, I think we made up for it in tippage for the most part.

The other, Rob alluded. Owner/Bartender's an ass. Period. Even then, couldn't care
less about how they handle the drink thing, per se, just the overall rudeness factor. As
Rob stated, the place is cool to play, we always got a good turnout, etc.

But, this particular person's essentially made it an untenable situation in many regards.
Not just for us, either. Unfortunately, it is hurting their finding people to play the venue
and we've always gotten people asking us to find somewhere else in that area to play
because even the customers have an issue.

Is it improper for the band to ask if there is a special for band
members?

I don't think so. Some places do this as well. Legally, I don't believe places can give free
alcohol. Some try to find a workaround. Some of these seem reasonable and within the
guidelines of the law...some...not.

...don't bring drinks in from the outside unless you are really into something we don't
carry (non-alcoholic types of course).

Guess I'm probably a huge offender on this just because I, too, like to have a couple
of bottles of Gatorade and a couple of energy drinks with me. This is especially true
on Saturdays when I'm tired from the Friday shows, etc. (At some point this started
happening and I've learned to accept it. Git' off my freakin' lawn and don't touch me
Metamu...Gatorade!) Normally, on any night I may have a beer during setup, maybe
another at some point, but I'm just as, if not more, likely to not have any and just get
pitchers of water. Not always the case, but normally.

REALLY, I just see it as part of the gear I'm hauling in. Might seem trite, but I'm not
about to spend 3 or 4 times as much on Red Bull at a bar when I can get energy drinks
(Those wicked freakin' ones in the plastic purple bottles are something) am there to work
and make money. It'd be like me coming to the day job and having them say I have to
get lunch out of the machines in the break room. Now...if I could get BEER out of those
machines...

But, really, it would be like telling your employees they have to get their cigarettes out
of the machine in the place (Prior to the smoking ban).

Anyway, would like to play in the "Scaled down" room at The Popper some time if it's
still in use.

So....how does this rank in the pantheon of being far-reomved from original topic, Paul?

[metalchurch]

I think that the band members should be allowed to bring in personal non alky drinks. But limited to the band only, not their GF's/BF's and entourage.
The light man and sound man should have to pay double the house price.

For the amount that actually do this, I dont really foresee any loss in sales, in fact the bar owner would prob save $.

Lots of really cool input here, and it's some good reading.

[VENTGtr]

The light man and sound man should have to pay double the house price.

Never used on those little icons before...but that's most humorously worthy.
ALL HAIL METAL IN THE NAME OF JOE!

[bassist_25]

We use to have some less than par board recordings on our MySpace, so we eventually took them down. We even chose not to post our first original on MySpace because it was done as just a simple live board recording for our own purposes (however, one of our board recordings did find its way into JP hands ).

As far as outside drinks - We have a tendency to bring in Gatorade and water, and no bar has had a problem with it. I'll bring in outside food if the bar doesn't have a kitchen, but I wouldn't even dream of doing that if the place serves food. But going back to NA drinks, as Sanchez said, most places don't have Gatorade. Also, I don't want to spend 12 minutes of my 15 minute break standing at the bar to get a drink. However, I generally only drink water on gigs, and I do tip the waitstaff, even on free water. I agree that free sodas should at least be included. Though, I usually don't drink soda on gigs, anyways. They give me stomach cramps when performing. I couldn't care less about free alcohol. I may have ONE beer at most on a gig, and that one beer is rare. My performance is too important to me to fuck it up by getting drunk. Plus, 99.9% of the time, I'm driving home from the gig. But in my eyes, telling a band they can't bring their own Gatorade in is like asking the electrians that they can't bring their thermoses in if they are there to work on your lights.

[Plastered Bastards]

Sit in the van and drink. It's cheaper.
Plus you can do what you want in the van.

[VENTGtr]

Ah yes. Never been one for trips to the van myself...but I've dealt with
the consequences of other's visits many a time.

[ToonaRockGuy]

This is a good thread for feedback and whatnot. I've played gigs where I had to pay for everything (not my favorite) and gigs where I had the world handed to me on a platter (Ah, the good times out at The Shade Mountain Inn in Middleburg).

Here's my opinions:

1. Bringing your own beverages. As stated before, I don't have a problem with it. Most bands that I've played with are aware that part of my ritual before I play is to down a 16oz Rockstar to get going. Most bars don't have Rockstar, and if they do, it's in the neighborhood of 4 bucks a can. Sorry, no. If the bar owner has a problem with it, I'll go outside to my car and drink it, but I'm not playin' without my Rockstar. I agree with Paul here, it's like telling someone to leave their tools outside to do a job you contracted them for.

2. Free non-alcoholic beverages. Most (about 99%) of places that I've played always give the band free water, soda, juice, etc. I'm really actually unaware of places that don't, although it's been a bit since I played out.

3. Free/discounted drinks. I've seen both sides, again, where you pay for nothing or pay for everything. Personally, I enjoy the gigs where the bar owner will offer the band free draft beer. But, it is important to NOT ABUSE THAT COURTESY. Don't start each set by filling 4 pitchers of Coors Light and walking double-fisted to the stage. Most places that I played over the last 3 years, I'd ask for a half-to-three-quarters-full pitcher of my favorite draft per set. (Hey, I'm a drummer, and we get thirsty as the hardest-working members of the band!!) Most places offered free soda, free draft, and you paid full for mixers and bottles.

It's the abuse of the courtesy that brings bad blood and ruins it for everyone.

One of the best things I learned in dealing with bartenders was from BadDazeRob. (Seriously) Before you start, budget out the cache to tip the main bartender a 20-spot. That will grease the wheels big time, and you'll never wait for your drinks all night long. You'll make it back in spades with the $$$ that you make for playing, and you'll be damn sure that the bartender will know what you drink, how you like it, the proper temperature to be served at, and you'll get some freebies. Show respect to get respect.

[KyleMayket]

Great thread Lisa!

I agree with most opinions here, free NON-alcoholic drinks, in my opinion are a MUST.
A lot of places I've played set limits on alcohol (the most recent had a "2 pitcher per band limit) which I think is great, otherwise it turns into all of their friends/girlfriends/roadies/groupies drinking for free where the owner now actually loses money.
Now this is where I can disagree with some of you, I don't feel that you can tell ANY band that is putting themselves out there to play music (original or not) that they suck, they may not be your cup of tea, but music is music, and they're more than likely doing it because they love it. Even if you feel that they "play badly", maybe they're doing it to the best of their ability, and they have no where to go but up. And as for their MySpace music, that always sucks, not because of the band, like Frigo said, it's of a low bit-rate. Also, professional recording is expensive, and a band just starting out, it's kinda out of reach, so they do what they can, like recording in their basement with one central mic, or trying to mic a live show.

So I guess Lisa, don't discriminate against the recording, or the band, just let them know that type of music isn't quite what you're looking for.

sorry for the wall or text.

[Banned]

Hey Lisa this is Stan from RESTLESS just wanted to let you knok we are looking forward to playing the popper on Nov 8 we have alot of new 80s material to play for you guys so we will see you on the 8th of nov Take care ............ Restless......................................................................

[DirtySanchez]

Ah yes. Never been one for trips to the van myself...but I've dealt with
the consequences of other's visits many a time.

Those fuckers ate your cheese doodles didn't they?

Happens everytime. Goddamned stoners.

[VENTGtr]

THEY DID! Then stood there with yellow cheese slime smeered all over
the stupid face goin' "Nuh uh. Di'n't seem 'em...uh..huh..uh...uuhhhhh...
how'z 'is song start?....uuuhhhhh.