Building a cabinet

[metalchurch]

Well here's the idea me and Keith have for a cab, we don't know if it's been built, but we want to build a full size cab with 2x12's up top, and 1x15" on the bottom.

We would like to start from scratch, so we need to know a few things first.
1) What type of wood (5 ply Birch?)
2) would it sound better as an angled cab or a straight cab?
3) Should there be any baffles or seperation between the top and bottom?
4) What brands should we use? V30's up top or G12T75's on top?

I would think there should be so the 12's and the 15 don't blur together. Having seperation would make each speaker seem more defined right?

Does this sound like a good idea?
Have any compaines built this for a guitar?
I think I've seen a 2x10/1x15 for a Bass, but I dont know if it was factory or not.

Jeff, I know that you've built cabs before, what do you think of this?
Any speaker brands to suggest for this?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[KyleMayket]

Well here's the idea me and Keith have for a cab, we don't know if it's been built, but we want to build a full size cab with 2x12's up top, and 1x15" on the bottom.

We would like to start from scratch, so we need to know a few things first.
1) What type of wood (5 ply Birch?)
2) would it sound better as an angled cab or a straight cab?
3) Should there be any baffles or seperation between the top and bottom?
4) What brands should we use? V30's up top or G12T75's on top?

I would think there should be so the 12's and the 15 don't blur together. Having seperation would make each speaker seem more defined right?

Does this sound like a good idea?
Have any compaines built this for a guitar?
I think I've seen a 2x10/1x15 for a Bass, but I dont know if it was factory or not.

Jeff, I know that you've built cabs before, what do you think of this?
Any speaker brands to suggest for this?

Thanks in advance for the help.

the guitarist of Parasomnia (Lerch) has a Randall cab that is 2-12/1-15, that thing sounds mean, good luck with it!

[slackin@dabass]

like kyle said, i know randall did it before. i know in bass cabs, there are baffles and they do sound much more defined and really will help that big 15 move for the upper frequencies a guitar uses. you may even wanna (and this is totally a spur of the moment idea) consider putting a crossover in it. put all your lows thru the 15 and all the highs and mids thru the 12s. but i guess if you mic the cab, you would have to use two mics? i dunno, just an idea

[KyleMayket]

like kyle said, i know randall did it before. i know in bass cabs, there are baffles and they do sound much more defined and really will help that big 15 move for the upper frequencies a guitar uses. you may even wanna (and this is totally a spur of the moment idea) consider putting a crossover in it. put all your lows thru the 15 and all the highs and mids thru the 12s. but i guess if you mic the cab, you would have to use two mics? i dunno, just an idea :roll: :roll: :roll:

well if you set the cross over low enough, you would get that "Kick you in the chest" feeling but not TOO much sound. and if you'd mic it, you could just put one mic on a 12 and leave the 15 unmiked. to fend for itself.

[metalchurch]

Thanks guys, I had no idea that anyone made one, but I figured someone did.
I think the bass cabs have 2x10's on top, and the 1x15 on bottom, correct?

That's basically the idea is to have the low end of the 15 and the high end cut with the 2x12's
I'd say that Vintage 30's would offer the response we're lookin for. And also a slant cab to better distribute it.

Is Lurch's Randall a straight front or an angled?
I dont know anything about crossovers to be honest with you guys. I know they use them in car stereos, but guitar amps?

[KyleMayket]

Thanks guys, I had no idea that anyone made one, but I figured someone did.
I think the bass cabs have 2x10's on top, and the 1x15 on bottom, correct?

That's basically the idea is to have the low end of the 15 and the high end cut with the 2x12's
I'd say that Vintage 30's would offer the response we're lookin for. And also a slant cab to better distribute it.

Is Lurch's Randall a straight front or an angled?
I dont know anything about crossovers to be honest with you guys. I know they use them in car stereos, but guitar amps?

If I remember correctly, Lerch's cab was flat, to be the bottom of the stack (makes sense to me that the bass is down low)
As for a cross over, you could get one and put it in a shell case with your amp, and just run the output of the amp into the imput of the crossover. then set the cross over to the frequency that you want it to split and then run the outputs of the crossover to the correct inputs on the cab (one input for 12's and one for 15). I might be being ignorant, i don't know if there is a stand alone unit that you can directly mount into the cab that all you'd have to do is plug the amp into the cab, and the internal wiring would split the signals to where they need to go...hey, i'm a drummer.

[orangekick]

Well here's the idea me and Keith have for a cab, we don't know if it's been built, but we want to build a full size cab with 2x12's up top, and 1x15" on the bottom.

We would like to start from scratch, so we need to know a few things first.
1) What type of wood (5 ply Birch?)
2) would it sound better as an angled cab or a straight cab?
3) Should there be any baffles or seperation between the top and bottom?
4) What brands should we use? V30's up top or G12T75's on top?

I would think there should be so the 12's and the 15 don't blur together. Having seperation would make each speaker seem more defined right?

Does this sound like a good idea?
Have any compaines built this for a guitar?
I think I've seen a 2x10/1x15 for a Bass, but I dont know if it was factory or not.

Jeff, I know that you've built cabs before, what do you think of this?
Any speaker brands to suggest for this?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Randall did make a cabinet like this for guitar. You can just make it out in this pic:



The version that I've seen of that for bass was a 2x10 and 1x18 that Peavey used to make.

As for the actual construction, I'm not 100% sure. All I know is that 15's tend to be a little lacking in the mids for guitar, so I would choose my guitar speakers based on that. I'd probably go with V30's or something along those lines. If you're going to make it a slant top and separate the speakers, I'd make sure that the top section was fairly large. Otherwise you might not get the bottom end response that most people would expect from the 12's.

I don't think that you would want a crossover in this cab either. I think that the difference in speakers will be enough of a crossover in itself.

[metalchurch]

Do angled cabs usually have chambers in them? I was thinking about using a slant front to project the 12's out more from the 15 on the bottom.
Although it might be better to have no chamber in it though like a regular cab is constructed.

I'm gonna try and find some info on that Randall cab and see if I can find out what typ of construction they used on that, and what type of speakers. That would probably be a good guide line.

I remember Lonewolf posted a link to a company that sells empty cabs a long time a go, so that might be an option also, as opposed to modifying an existing cab to work.
The other question would be what ohms to run this on? Being there's only 3 speakers does that mess up the 'balance' being it's an odd # of speakers?
Maybe a switchable ohm like Marshall's cabs?

Thanks again guys.

[orangekick]

Angled cabs are usually just angled. Most guitar cabs are just an open box with speakers in them. There are a few variations on that. I have seen a few companies that put braces in that extend into the cab.

The speakers that Randall used in that cab were Celestion 70/80's. They appear to be Randall's "go to" speaker. I'm not a fan. I have also read that they shipped it with Eminence Legend 12's and an Eminence Legend 15.

It does appear that this cab from Randall may also be ported. That may or may not be something that you would want to consider. I have found ported guitar cabs to be woofy.

As for the impedance issue, the easiest solution would be to wire the 12's to one jack and the 15 to another. Make sure that both jacks are the same ohm load and you can just run 2 speaker cables. You could also run 2 heads on one cab, if you were into that kind of thing.

[metalchurch]

Yeah thats a good idea, I need to get out of 'mono mode' and start thinkin stereo!

So V30's on top, but what brand of 15 would be a good one for the bottom? Would it be a brighter than normal 15? Unlike the ones normally voiced or associated with bass cabs.

Thanks for the help on this bro!

[orangekick]

For the 15, I'd look into Weber speakers. Weber makes the speakers themselves. They have one that's called the Ceramic Michigan 15. It's 100 watts, and has a frequency response along the lines of an EV 15. They're $110 and you can pick your ohm load as well.

Go here and click on Weber speakers. You'll want to go to the high powered series.

http://www.tedweber.com/

[metalchurch]

Thank you!

[orangekick]

You're welcome. I have to say that I was already interested in that Randall cabinet, so this is something that I want to hear if you actually make it.

[metalchurch]

Yeah for sure. Right now we are doing the plans and schematics to get a list of materials and projected cost, but yeah it will be done.
I dont have a particular need for it myself, but me and Keith were talking and we think it might be what he needs in his rig to get a broader sound.

I am torn on whether to buy a used empty cab and modify the face, or buy an empty custom cab, or build one from scratch.
Obviously we would like to do it as cheaply as possible, but we also want it to be good quality as well.
What would you do in this situation?

[orangekick]

I'd probably look around for a large, cheap cabinet. Then I'd pull off the baffle board and make a new one for the three speakers. That would probably be the cheapest and easiest solution. There are almost always cheap cabinets around.

[metalchurch]

Thats what I was thinking, cause after we bought the materials and hardware it would add up very quickly.
If cost weren't an issue at this point, it would be even better to have made it from the ground up, but I guess it would make more sense to cut costs initially, then if it sounds good or bad, go from there.

You think a straight cab would be better suited for this?

[lonewolf]

I'm not sure what the goal is here, but I haven't heard very many 15" speakers that work well with guitar. I can't even think of one famous speaker model that is associated with guitar amps. Maybe Jensen or Utah back in the 60s, but that's about it.

It has a lot to do with the speaker's excursion properties. 15" speakers simply do not "move the air" efficiently enough to work well for the guitar's (and vocals too) frequency range. For the same reasons, most bass players prefer 15" over 18" drivers for bass.

If I was to approach this problem, I would definitely 1st try a 15" subwoofer with an active crossover and a 2-12" or 4-12" cab to see if it sounds good. Cross it over at about 100hz--vary to taste if you can.

I would not just wire 2-12" in parallel with a 15" and I don't think a passive crossover arrangement would work as well as the active system, above.

In any case, you would definitely want to seal the 15 in its own chamber and maybe even go with 2-12s with an open back top like the Boogie half-backs (you can always put a back on it).

Angled or straight won't make much sonic difference like it does with a 4x12 cab.

[metalchurch]

Ok that makes sense, the frequencies are another area of concern.
This setup would be better suited for a baritone or down tuned guitar right? Or maybe the opposite cause it wouldn't 'cut' through with enough definition and therefore be muddy and undefined?

I wonder what style Randall was aiming there cab toward?
I'm wondering now if this is even worth the time and effort?


I'd like to have that Randall cab here to test out first. Does anyone have one of them by chance?

Thanks Jeff

[orangekick]

I've actually always had a thing for 15's for guitar. Fender used to make a few amps with 15's in them. Those Weber's that I linked above are for guitar and designed with the proper frequency range as well.

I believe that the Randall cab is aimed at guitar players who are seeking more and more lowend out of their rigs.

As for the whole subwoofer/ crossover thought, I have never heard a guitar played in conjunction with a subwoofer that sounded good. It always ends up sounding like a thin guitar playing along with a car stereo.

[metalchurch]

Now i really want to try this just to see for myself.
I'm not a regular downtuning guy, although I keep one guitar in C# for Sabbath exclusively, so it's prob not what I want out of a cab, but it's more or less for Keith's rig, and also for the whole experiment factor that we thought about last night. I think it would be great for his style, cause he is tuned DGCFAD and he is using an Evolution which is a tight/ high output pickup that would suit this very well. And his ESP also has a nice cut to it thatwould prove to be helpful.

Now that the beans wore off, I'm looking at this from a whole new perspective. kidding. no I'm not.

I think if we planned this out with a certain goal, I think it could be achieved with good results.

[Charltor]

Joe, this is the same cabinet I use. It's definitely worth it for downtuned guitar. My ESP is a barritone 7 and it really thumps with this cab. The Eminence speakers sound great, but I think Vintage 30's may sound a bit better. There are no problems with mids. Great cab for downtuned metal. What really sounds good is running this cab with my Laney 4x12 in stereo. This is mono input and it does have 2 small ports for the 15. If ya wanna try it out some time get a hold of me. Keith maybe better off just buying the cab new. They have them for 449+shipping. When i got mine they were 499+ 85 to ship.
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... 1&ZYXSEM=0

[metalchurch]

I didnt know you had that cab, that would be real cool to hook up sometime to try it out, but you know your shit so I can def take your word for it.
What does it sound like by itself, w/out your other cab?
From what you say, this might be right down Keith's alley, or right up his back door, or whatever lol
From what you say, he might be better off to buy one. I read a review of this cab coupled with a Peavey 6505+ and it sounded real promising. He's been lookin at that same head also.
Are you running that Blue Voodoo w/ that Randall cab?

[orangekick]

I know that a bunch of people have been using this cab for downtuned metal. I'm wondering if it would be cool for the sound that I go for. I tend to like my tone low, wide and smooth. I might have to look into picking up one of these now.

[Killjingle]

I am tuned stupid low and I did not like the tone that I got with that cab when I tried it. I am a firm believer in Vintage 30's.


Most guitarists dont need more low end that I have ever heard. It does not translate well when playing thrash either. Maybe stoner death or doom it would be fantastic.

Just my .02

[metalchurch]

Chad that definitely makes sense to me.
Keith plays a good amount of different styles and he is using a SS rig, so he might have different results than you did. But just like anything else, you really never know until you try it really.

I haven't tried Vintage 30's, but from reading all of your posts as well as other guys, I am really interested in seeing what they would do not only for this 2x12 / 1x15 cab, but also for my own rig.

I have been toying with the idea of using my stock 1960 cab along w/ another cab loaded with v30's.
I'm guess that it would make my sound a little more versatile by having 2 different 'flavors'.