YES! Go Senator Stewart Greenleaf!

[str8h8]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ae/2295834

Based on a previous post I made here, I am sure you can tell I can't wait!

[ToonaRockGuy]

As a smoker, I don't mind not smoking in an eating establishment. In fact, I always request a non-smoking section when I go out to eat. But I do resent the government telling me where I can smoke.

I try to be a "polite" smoker, not smoking around people who don't, making sure my smoke does not bother non-smokers, but damn, when I go out to see a band, beer and cigarettes are part of my regimen! New York City is already modifying their smoking ban, and I don't see it working here in PA.

Imagine the nightmare for bars...you go pay 5 bucks to see your fave band, get your drink, and then if you want a cig, you have to go outside? What's to stop the doorman from charging you to get back in? And what about "dip" users? Why should they be able to bring in and use their tobacco products when I can't?

Yes, I know that smoking kills. I know it's bad for me. And I accept that. But just like you have a right not to breathe my smoke, as long as I am polite and decent about it, I have a right to breathe my own smoke.

I think this thread is gonna get long...

[DMFJ03]

"I might smoke a Marlboro for the f**k of it
But I'ma keep it menthol till you all wanna puff on it
Rough and ragged, and my voice is all raspy
Teeth all rotten and yellow, my breath nasty
I smoke 3, 4, 5 packs a day
Just rotting my moustache away
It ain't no time to play, cause I get winded so quick
And when I spit it's so yellow and thick it'll probably make you sick
And wanna throw up
Now, baby, hold up
What you mean it ain't no smoking in there?
I'm about to blow up
I like my sh*t whenever, know what I mean?
And I can't help it if you can't appreciate my nicotine
I'm not a quitter
So laugh and give no love that patch
I'd rather smoke by the pack
Now where my mothaf**king smokers at?
Now light it up and take a hit
You gotta admit that you addicted to my menthol, b*tch"

[tonefight]

Damn DMFJ, that makes me wanna quit !!!!

I am a smoker , not a proud one, I know I should quit, I don't smoke in restaurants either and I hold it at arms length from anyone around me who don't smoke in a bar .....but what the hell its a bar , Did ya ever hear " smoke filled bar room" been that way for ever.
Now If they would at least have a smoking room or something wouldn't be bad but smoking and drinking go hand in hand in my book. Alot of places aren't bad with proper ventilation so maybe that could become a standard.

[J Michaels]

here's a thought.....

This is one more reason people won't come out to the bars to hear us play our music......

Now what's the opinion?

And don't tell me that it will bring more people out cuz they won't have to deal with the smoke. People hanging out late at night in bars are (usually) not the most health conscious types, smoker or not.

And I agree with Toona - the government does not have the right to tell anyone how to live - whether it's wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, smoking a cigarette, or whatever. Things like this are a personal choice, and everything has its ups and downs - wanna go to the bar? Put up with the environment, or establish a particular venue that is smoke-free. Don't wanna wear a helmet? Take the chance of dying in a crash you might have otherwise survived. These are risks - life IS is risk. If you don't want risk, install a super-heavy-duty filtration system in your house, stay home, and eat tofu and wheat bran all day, shit your way to the perfect lifestyle, and live forever. But let others enjoy their time on this big blue marble however they choose.

[lonewolf]

I guess its time to move to Nevada.

[songsmith]

I'm one of those guys who says you can do what you want, but YOU must face the consequences alone. Although I quit smoking many years ago, I belong to a smoking privilege advocacy group (I know..."Johnny you're such an enigma!"). If you want to die slow, that's your business. If I want to hang around and watch it happen, that's mine. However, to sue the tobacco company seems ludicrous to me. Let's say you buy a car. You drive it around for years and years. After 20 years of abusing the car, you go down a long curvy hill, and the brakes give way, so the car goes into the ditch, exploding into flames. You suffer horrible, horrible injuries, so despite the obvious fact that YOU abused the car, YOU didn't repair or maintain it, and YOU drove the car down the hill... YOU sue the manufacturer of the car for your injuries and suffering. It makes no sense.
I've played a few ABATE benefits over the years... the fella's in the black T-shirts are the kind of guys I associate with the most. Wanna go without a brainpan, that's cool. That's where I stop agreeing. I saw nothing in the helmet law changes that put the RESPONSIBILTY on the rider. You shouldn't have the insurance company or worse, the state, support you for the rest of your days because YOU scrambled your eggs on a guardrail. Same goes for any "Jackass"-style stupidity young guys are prone to get into. Taking risks is human and even necessary sometimes. Making me pay isn't.
As far as smoking goes, I hate cigarette smoke, but it comes with the job, the same way flagging on a road crew means you better have sunscreen. I think a smoking ban would utterly destroy the club scene in PA... the best the clubs can do is provide smokeeters (and TURN THEM ON for Chrissakes), and ventilate well... some clubs do a good job at it already.

[Sanctify]

you have a right to harm yourself... or do you?... some states/municipalities have laws against suicide... that are backed up with penalties such as jail time... don't ask me how that works...

I smoke... would like to quit... sometime...

I respect anyone and everyone's right not to breathe my second hand smoke... I also don't want the government telling me when and where I can smoke...

to quote the great comic Dennis Leary "soon the law will be you can only smoke in your apartment, in your bed, under the sheets... with the lights off"

However, the government does have a right to regulate your behaviors when it affects other people... for example drunk driving... you have a right to put yourself in harms way... but you don't have the right to endanger other people while doing it... another example... (sorry it's another driving one) speeding... same reason as above... another example someone else used in another thread... yelling fire in a theatre... endangering other people comes before your right to free speech...

Anyway... It IS a possibility that smoking could be banned in public restaurants and bars... I think it WILL be bad for business... but GOOD for people's health...

Lastly... it WILL SUCK to have to go outside everytime I need a smoke... hell hopefully I can quit before anything like this happens...

just my opinion....

[DMFJ03]

Okay, for a real post now...

As a smoker, I believe that it is the right of choice. I have no problem not smoking in an eatery, that's fine with me. I try to be a curtious smoker, but sometimes that just isn't enough for people. You can't please everybody and the people who aren't pleased get pissed off, and the people who do get pleased piss others off. It's a no win situaition. In my opinion, this whole idea is just sad.

What's next...banning reading because we might learn something the system doesn't us to learn?

[songsmith]

real post? I'm not following you. What's wrong with the posts so far?--->JMS

[bassist_25]

As somone WHO DOESN'T SMOKE, I couldn't care less if someone around me smokes. I mean, why don't we just ban cars while we're at it? You breath in harmful emissions all of the time from their exhausts. And as far as the people who don't like smoke in the bars - I'm assuming that all of them are perfectly sober when they take the wheel at the end of the night. I know, that's somewhat of a strawman argument, but I think it illustrates some of the hypocrisy that are in these issues.

It kind of reminds me of playing Sim City. The people complain about the pollution from my industrial zones, even when they are no where near the residential zones, but then they complain about unemployment when there are no industrial zones. What's even worse is Sim City 2000; the people aren't willing to travel more than 10 spaces to go to another area for work or shopping. Okay, I know that Sim City isn't a realistic model of politics and civil engineering, but I just want to strangle the SimCitizens sometimes.

But I digress. My point is, I think this is a terrible idea. New York has already showed that it's a bad idea. This may work better in a place with a higher climate, such as Florida, but people aren't going to walk out into the freezing cold every 45 minutes just to have a ciggerette.

[DMFJ03]

I meant a real post for me, as apposed to my other one further up with song lyrics.

[daveb]

I am a militant, hardcore non smoker. That being said, I think it is crazy to try and regulate smoking any further. Give me a non smoking place to eat and don't smoke in my car. That's cool. As long as smoking is legal don't over regulate it.

[str8h8]

What's next...banning reading because we might learn something the system doesn't us to learn?

Unless just by reading you are running the risk of killing other people, I think it's safe. That's the point.

[str8h8]

I am a militant, hardcore non smoker. That being said, I think it is crazy to try and regulate smoking any further. Give me a non smoking place to eat and don't smoke in my car. That's cool. As long as smoking is legal don't over regulate it.

You're not all that militant about it. I have a serious problem with smokers beyond just in my car and at restaraunts. Case in point...at work. They put those stupid sand ashtray eyesores right in front of the main doors to my building where all the "suck and blowers" congregate and force me to walk through their cloud of shit on cancer corner to get into my buidling. It's bullshit. In your house or in your car is fine with me, they are places I won't be visiting but otherwise, their's no place for it anywhere.

Plus, have you ever gotten off I-99 S at the Plank Road exit and been stopped at the light? Ever look to your left and see the tremendous amount of litter caused be the suck and blowers? It's ridiculous! This leads to my next point, throwing out your butts is littering. It's just bad all around.

When I am Governor of PA, smoking will be a long lost and distant memory!

[wake up drumming]

1) You would have to be around an enormous amount of 2nd hand smoke to contract a serious illness from it. If you put yourself in that situation that often then you probably have WAY more to worry about health-wise than cancer from second hand smoke!

2) If it's just the smell of smoke that annoys you, don't go to bars!! Slobbering, annoying, drunk people annoy me, but I wouldn't ask them to quit drinking. For Christ's sake, I'm in a bar, that's what people do.

Sorry st8h8t, hope I didn't come across sounding offensive, just giving my opinion. I'm gonna go have a smoke

[DMFJ03]

But that isn't the point...

You are running the risk of killing other people by reading. It all begins with intent. If you intend to read a book to gain knowledge for the specific reason of learning how to build, lets say, a bomb.

"You know what a bomb is that doesn't explode, Jack, it's a cheap gold watch." - Speed

People don't build a bomb just to see if they can do it. It doesn't even have to be a bomb. It can be any kind of weapon. However, the point remains the same. It all begins with what you intend to do. So, saying that reading does not directly kill people, is a false statement. I mean, look at Hitler...he had massive book burnings because he feared that if people became educated, he would be over thrown. It happend in Egypt with the Kings and Pharoh's, it happened during the time of Slavery, it happened in Greek Time Period. Outlawing reading because they feared that the people would become smart and challenge their rule.

Another case in point - The Anarchist Cookbook. There is a book specificly made for the making and manufacturing items for malicious intent.

Again, to reiterate the point - Reading, depending on intent, can inadvertantly result in death.

Ya know what I mean? ::Puts out his smoke::

[Skate Toad]

My 2 cents. Never smoked never will, hate the concept. But there is a time and place for everything. The ban in eating establishments i agree with 100%. I have walked away from meals because of smokers making me too sick to eat. As far as bars eh i'm on the fence. I think it would really hurt the bars and the musical scene if an all out ban happened. I think instead they should ban smoking during certain hours but only if that place serves food. Like no smoking till 7 or 8. From there on puff away. Or require bars to install air filtration. So many units per square foot type deal.
I agree on the litter aspect too. That drives me nuts when i see butts all over the side of the road. Or a smoker flick a butt into the parking lot when there is an ash tray 10 feet away. I think there should be a littering fine of $300 or more per butt. That stuff doesn't decompose as quickly and just builds up. And it washes away into the rivers and streams and eventually our drinking water. Not good for the enviroment at all.
Basically there needs to be a comprimise. If i goto a bar i can fully expect i'm going to be inhaling tons of smoke. I comprimise so as to be able to see my friends or a band on that rare chance i'm not playing. But it goes both ways. But i guess it is out of our hands for the most part some over paid dumb ass that has all the answers will decide for us. I hate politicians. It's a shame the only choices in the voting box is an a-hole that lies to your face a little or an a-hole that lies alot. No wonder i never vote!
Well i'm done for now
Todd

[wake up drumming]

Two words for ya: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Two words that aren't said enough in today's society. Everyone wants to point the finger and bitch, but no one is willing to change their own actions.

If you don't like smoke - don't be around it.

If you want to see a band - put up with it for a night!!
(and if you do, don't bitch about it, you made the decision to enter a smoke filled BAR, remember it's a BAR.) One or two or 10 people who don't smoke have no right over a bar-full of paying smoking customers it's that simple.

It's a judgement call, if you feel annoyed, unsafe, violated, etc. in any situation, the decision is rather easy, DON'T GO THERE. If you can deal with the little imperfections of this world than, have fun, cut loose, and find bigger things to be concerned with.

[bassist_25]

Jim, I'm with you 100% on this. If a bar wants to enact a no smoke rule, it should be up to the private owner to make that decision. If the government enacts a nonsmoking law for establishments, it will be the death of bars. People wonder why the economy isn't doing so well; it's asinine regulations like this that help kill it. (I really should run for some sort of government position as a Libertarian)

[RobTheDrummer]

The main reason that I don't go out much is smoking. I can't breathe and so...I can't go see much of the live music scene. Talking about personal responsibiliy, take care of yourself and others. Don't litter the streets and quit smoking...now that's personal responsibility.

[Skate Toad]

You have a good point ,it's a private business, they should be able to do as they wish as far as catering to customers of there choosing. When i worked at a small retail store if i didn't want to deal with an a-hole i'd tell them to leave and that we don't need their business. A smart bar would put the effort into making both sides happy. I know a few bars i avoid due to the mass amounts of smoke and all it would take is a little bit of filtration and i'd be happy. But that is up to the owner, a smart one would invest the $$ to get more non smokers in but hey it's their choice how much work they want to do.
New laws will only give the evil PLCB more freedom to turn more into the gestapo that they are becoming. Because you know that will be yet another law that is governed by the PLCB due to liqour lic. Soon the PLCB will be making our setlists out for us. Siting that song is too fast, too heavy, or too depressing it may cause feelings to get hurt blah blah blah. So i support the smokers on this very rare occasion, due to the bigger picture at hand.

Todd

[str8h8]

If you don't like smoke - don't be around it.

That's precisely my point...and the fix is it shouldn't be allowed anywhere. Then I wouldn't have to alter my behaviors to avoid it.

[HurricaneBob]

Ever watch the movie boy in the bubble? They got em at wallmart!

[tonefight]

Yeah, we could wrap your head in a plastic bag and feed ya oxygen into it!!!